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SonicFox's Initial MK11 Impressions

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Also lmao at counter breakers in MK
He has a valid point. The cost of breakers was always meter. Meter had to be earned. And if you spent your meter you couldn't EX offensive moves, so it was also an offensive consideration. Now you get it for free, and even start with both bars already, and even after spending your entire defensive bar you can still meter-burn stuff, so that consideration is gone -- it's a totally different ballgame.

It's still way too early to say for sure, but pretending this is just the regular MK breaker is not being honest at all imo.
 
I love seeing Sonic Fox play. However compare Fatal 8 MKX to MK11 Exhibition and you can see that having defensive options actually challenges Sonic Fox.

Though Tweedy lost I can truthfully see that with more time he could also give Sonic a run for his money.

At the IPS Finals Sonic outplayed people in Injustice 2 and this is the Sonic I want to see as he took Joker and he did outplay people without question.

I also hope that the variations are preset so nobody can pick moves and normals that force 50/50s.

I want to see neutral being played and want to see a less heavy mix up game and if NRS can guide that then I have a feeling that we will have a bigger legion of players and not the same players dominating.

I want to see people keep Sonic out of the Top 8 which hasn't happened in years.

This new NRS game maybe the one to challenge Sonic.

No hate for Sonic but I feel its definitely obvious he excels in games that have strong setplay.

He has excellent defence but now with less guessing more people can strengthen their defence as well.

We need this game to keep strong defence options. Offence can be there but it needs to be balanced.

MK11 reminds me of MK2 and it looks like this game rewards methodical play.

Tl:Dr NRS needs to keep their defensive options so more players can actually play the game and we have a healthier meta with a plethora of new and veteran players!
 

MrWarMachine

Jacqui/D'Vorah 2020
the salt from one dude's opinion lol you realize that nothing he says will really change the development of this game right?
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
He has a valid point. The cost of breakers was always meter. Meter had to be earned. And if you spent your meter you couldn't EX offensive moves, so it was also an offensive consideration. Now you get it for free, and even start with both bars already, and even after spending your entire defensive bar you can still meter-burn stuff, so that consideration is gone -- it's a totally different ballgame.

It's still way too early to say for sure, but pretending this is just the regular MK breaker is not being honest at all imo.
You don't get breakaway for free. It depletes your defensive meter and as a result you are on the ground, with no chance of wakeup. That is a high cost. Mkx breakers costed bar that had to be earned, yes, but the reward was MUCH better: they actually reseted the neutral and depleted stamina so they always gave you actual room to breathe for those bars. That's not the case with the breakaway, which imo is weaker than traditional breaker in the sense that you don't always get that chance to breathe.

The way to bait it that Sonic wants is already there. If you think the opponent is gonna brekaway, make sure to use something with low recovery frames, and you are at advantage to be able to pressure or mix for free since opponent is totally hopeless on the ground, and also will not be able to wakeup afterwards if you catch him with a combo.
 
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Eji1700

Kombatant
I agree Scorp looks like he's further along than the others. Might be why he feels so strong.

I still can't believe they basically gave him military stance. Amplified version looks nutty. Might see some big play from that early.
I'm somewhat wondering if that's leftover from testing. Scorp was almost certainly one of the first characters made in the new game, and they might have given him a bunch of different moves just to test things while models for the rest of the cast were made. He's also got smoke's smoke bombs (although toned down, identical character animation). I suspect he may not make it to the final build with all of this.

why does every NRS game have shit AAs and people continue to complain about it. every character should have a reliable AA. if i had a theory its fan service for lower level players. scrubs jump a lot and if they get AA every single jump they would prob just quit.
I mean...do they? Like yeah you don't get invincible DP's like in SF, but you also get full combo punishes off of most common antiairs.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Reminds me of trying to nerf clone before mkx came out. Typical Sonic Fox, wants to kill defense before it has a chance to live.
Top players opinions on balance aren't worth much
He has a valid point. The cost of breakers was always meter. Meter had to be earned. And if you spent your meter you couldn't EX offensive moves, so it was also an offensive consideration. Now you get it for free, and even start with both bars already, and even after spending your entire defensive bar you can still meter-burn stuff, so that consideration is gone -- it's a totally different ballgame.

It's still way too early to say for sure, but pretending this is just the regular MK breaker is not being honest at all imo.
Well lets look at what Fox is asking for. First, falling out of a combo leaves you on the ground now, not standing like I2, and since it takes both bars that means you wont have resources to wake up or roll after. So Fox wants to be able to counter breaker you for a reset KI style after you spend your resources to break a juggle unsuccessfully and then after he already reset you you wont be able to wake up so he will free mix you again after. AKA Fox wants to hit you with 3 full combos worth of damage in a period of 10 seconds.

No thank you. He wants tourney money, not a balanced game between offense and defense.
 
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DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
He should let the game develop a bit more before asking for big changes like this. The Breakaway doesnt reset to neutral. Most situations you'll break out of the combo but still be in the blender, as long as the attacker is ready for it. Your defensive meter goes away for about 20 seconds so you cant wake up attack out of it.

As the defender you have to try and time it with a point where the attacker is too committed to their combo to respond. If they bait it out you're in an even worse position. In a mixup, no defensive options aside from d1. That's enough of a risk to begin with. You have to make a pretty serious power play after
 

MrWarMachine

Jacqui/D'Vorah 2020
"Stay salty"

Spoken like a true can. Someone already elaborated on what happened to Sub in MKX.
I don't know what you mean by "can" but you have #PunchWalk under your name, I don't wanna hear it lol. People constantly complain about Ice Clone, just cause SF said something about it doesn't mean he was the deciding factor, you're projecting.
 

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
I don't know what you mean by "can" but you have #PunchWalk under your name, I don't wanna hear it lol. People constantly complain about Ice Clone, just cause SF said something about it doesn't mean he was the deciding factor, you're projecting.
I never once heard anyone complain about ice clone before SF complained.

If you don't think certain members of the community have "say" in things, you're sadly mistaken and ignorant.

And considering you've been here 6 days, referring to the #PunchWalk movement is a slap in the face.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Top players opinions on balance aren't worth much

Well lets look at what Fox is asking for. First, falling out of a combo leaves you on the ground now, not standing like I2, and since it takes both bars that means you wont have resources to wake up or roll after. So Fox wants to be able to counter breaker you for a reset KI style after you spend your resources to break a juggle unsuccessfully and then after he already reset you you wont be able to wake up so he will free mix you again after. AKA Fox wants to hit you with 3 full combos worth of damage in a period of 10 seconds.

No thank you. He wants tourney money, not a balanced game between offense and defense.
They’ve already said that 50/50s are greatly minimized from MKX/IGAU in this game, so no one should be allergic to actually waking up and blocking instead of feeling the MK-esque need to hit a button every single time. Some old habits are going to need to be broken.

The days of IGAU Bane etc. are done. MK11 is a new approach.

And in Injustice 2, the air escape was unsafe and we dealt with it. You want out, you take the risk. No free lunches.

Some of you guys are still analyzing this game in accordance with an old meta.
 

MrWarMachine

Jacqui/D'Vorah 2020
I never once heard anyone complain about ice clone before SF complained.

If you don't think certain members of the community have "say" in things, you're sadly mistaken and ignorant.

And considering you've been here 6 days, referring to the #PunchWalk movement is a slap in the face.
Play against literally anyone and hit them with Ice Clone and they will start complaining, maybe not "seasoned vets" like yourself, but your average person complains about that move. It's an annoying move, that's it's design.

There's say, and then there is changing/shifting everything you had planned for this game to something that looks like an amalgam of MKX and your original idea, for one dude. Who 97% of the world has never heard of?

Do you really think they would change the entire look and feel of the game for one guy? Who isn't going to sell a single fucking copy of this game? And never will?

And unless #PunchWalk is some charity thing you guys do around here, I really don't care. All I know is that's a Goro move that is super annoying. Like Ice Clone.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
They’ve already said that 50/50s are greatly minimized from MKX/IGAU in this game, so no one should be allergic to actually waking up and blocking instead of feeling the MK-esque need to hit a button every single time. Some old habits are going to need to be broken.

The days of IGAU Bane etc. are done. MK11 is a new approach.

And in Injustice 2, the air escape was unsafe and we dealt with it. You want out, you take the risk. No free lunches.

Some of you guys are still analyzing this game in accordance with an old meta.
My analysis was based of what we know about MK11 and what Sonic said directly and nothing more. We know mix ups still exist for characters lile sonya as we saw them in the exhibitions, we know fox is going to play the mix character and not baraka who gets damage from punishes, and if counter breakers were to exist like fox wants then the scenario i just described where you get free reset into another 50-50 would absolutely exist. No thank you
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
To be fair, Fox did use Kitana all the way into top 8 at EVO (although she had just gotten 11 buffs and no one was ready for her, but I digress).

Point being, Fox has long had a habit of using characters he wants to showcase to NRS; whether it be to show what they’re capable of, or an attempt to bring attention to how OP they are and potentially get them nerfed. So if he’s saying this about Baraka.... well, he either truly likes the character or doesn’t want to deal with him.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
To be fair, Fox did use Kitana all the way into top 8 at EVO (although she had just gotten 11 buffs and no one was ready for her, but I digress).

Point being, Fox has long had a habit of using characters he wants to showcase to NRS; whether it be to show what they’re capable of, or an attempt to bring attention to how OP they are and potentially get them nerfed. So if he’s saying this about Baraka.... well, he either truly likes the character or doesn’t want to deal with him.
He wants baraka nerfed, no doubt about it
 

Xelz

Go over there!
Lol I expect to see all of you who were trashing that dude who opened a thread about wanting custom variations in tournament to call out Sonic for being a casual as well.
:DOGE
Heh, well played. I'll call Sonic out for wanting access to the most broken, OP'd move set which he and Dragon will undoubtedly discover before everyone else :D

In all seriousness, I think Sonic's comment about air escapes has more to do with balancing juggle characters vs. grounded combo characters. Better access to air escapes - even if they carry some risk - lowers the average damage of juggles, while grounded combo damage is guaranteed if executed correctly. So juggles need either more damage or a mechanic that creates a chance for more damage. A generic damage/scaling increase would be a straightforward but boring approach, while some sort of mind game related to air escapes would make matches more interesting.

That said, there were occasional instances in I2 tournaments where players would bait out an air escape and intentionally stop their juggle so they could launch into a new juggle after the escape. I'd like to see if this becomes the new mind game meta in MK11 before introducing more mechanics.
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
Completely disagree with the "all wakeups should be punishable". The launching ones are already vulnerable, and the invincible ones are single hitting and all chars have them. Let's not start nerfing defense options this early, thx.
The non uppercut wakeups are invincible.

No fighting game should ever have an invincible wakeup that is safe on block. This was the lesson learned in sf4 and it should stay learned.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
The non uppercut wakeups are invincible.

No fighting game should ever have an invincible wakeup that is safe on block. This was the lesson learned in sf4 and it should stay learned.
First of all, 16 bit said that not all of them are safe on block, it depends on the character. Maybe there is a reason why some of them have a safe one. And also, we don't know if there are other ways of punishing them that don't involve blocking. Maybe you can jump them, crossup them, perfect block them...

Main idea is we are at day -90 and thinking about changing the game now doesn't make sense. What about we wait to release, we play it, and then we start these discussions. Nerfs or buffs without understanding the game are the worst possible thing.