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Sonic Fox's criticism of Mortal Kombat 11

PapaRegadetho

PapaRegadetho

All hail emperor Liucifer Kang!
Yees, lets nerf defense so Fox doesnt get launched when the mighty god Ninjakilla flawless blocks u2 everything! I see you SonicCox , you aint foooling anyone!
 
Cobainevermind87

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Second Saint said:
Easiest fix would just be to make the knockdown off breakers insanely long so no one could possibly punish anything.
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Right, but then you have the other side of the issue. Who's going to spend two bars to deal with crazy oki setups? At that point, you might as well just delete breakaway altogether.
 
Kindred

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I disagree with removing FlawBlk U2.
I think they need to be universally consistent because some characters have U2s that come out very quickly while others dont. I also think they should be scaled more even if the majority do less than 300 (still find it a lot)
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Cobainevermind87 said:
Right, but then you have the other side of the issue. Who's going to spend two bars to deal with crazy oki setups? At that point, you might as well just delete breakaway altogether.
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I mean, that's what breakaway was pitched as, so I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with it being removed entirely and everyone just having to hold damage.
 
ShepherdOfFire

ShepherdOfFire

Kombatant
I have no problem with the u2 flawless block, but I agree that the pushback on fatal blows should be greatly reduced.

Breakaway is such a dumb mechanic, being punished for playing the game correctly is absurd. And since some characters have more trouble to open the opponent than others, sometimes the opponents breaks away, and by the time you open the opponent again, both of its defensive meter will be back.
Also, I can't count how many times I accidentally used a breakaway because I wanted to block as soon as I getup because of that damn input.

I even want to add that it is almost the same with the throws Krushing Blows when the game actually punishes you for trying to tech. Teching isn't that easy (especially in a game where throws are powerful) to perform with the rule of releasing the block button and have to guess which side you are supposed to tech, but having the game punishing you for trying to tech with an unblockable 30% is really dumb. They need either to change the requirement or lower the damage of throws KB. Also if a throw KB is loaded but one whiffes a throw afterwards, the KB requirement should be locked again.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Breakaway should cause a mandatory hard knockdown or have a hard knockdown with an increased duration specifically for Breakaway. None of this "derp derp breakaway getup fatal blow for the win lollllll" shit. It's so fucking stupid.

Fatal Blow on block should result in a specific "dizzy" animation that leaves the opponent like -50 or some shit. Blocking one should scream "I DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED".

I have no comment about FBU2 because I'm part of the 99% that doesn't ever utilize them.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
To play devil's advocate, is breakaway really as bad as people claim? Obviously, scenarios for which you get punished for trying to do combos are unacceptable. However, the implication that breakaway benefits bad players is nonsensical. You have access to the same tool that your opponent does. Breakaway favors a player no more than flawless blocking does. Another argument is that in previous Mortal Kombat games the top tier characters took advantage of combo breakers on a consistent basis because they built meter quickly. The option has been universalized in Mortal Kombat 11 so that the whole roster can properly exploit it.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Trustful_Whale said:
Regarding breakaways literally all they have to do is copy Guilty Gear's Burst mechanic.
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NRS does not have good track of copying shit they understand, the last thing we want is them copying more shit and making it worse.

They need to look at past mechanism implemented before and improve on what they learn instead of scrapping shit up every new game, if ain't broke don't fix it
 
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UghGetOuttaHere

UghGetOuttaHere

Number Cruncher. Jack of All Trades.
Breakaway would be so freaking easy to fix. Whoever is in the middle of juggling will get interrupted by a small hitstun during the breakaway (think the end of round animation after dying to a DoT) with no damage. It would leave the attacker plus so there will be no way to counter punish & Nrs wouldn't have to overhaul it.
 
Arqwart

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
M2Dave said:
To play devil's advocate, is breakaway really as bad as people claim? Obviously, scenarios for which you get punished for trying to do combos are unacceptable. However, the implication that breakaway benefits bad players is nonsensical. You have access to the same tool that your opponent does. Breakaway favors a player no more than flawless blocking does. Another argument is that in previous Mortal Kombat games the top tier characters took advantage of combo breakers on a consistent basis because they built meter quickly. The option has been universalized in Mortal Kombat 11 so that the whole roster can properly exploit it.
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Breakaway is more inherently flawed than breaker was before. The core issue with breakers in 9/X was a symptom of the overall meter system, not so much breakers themselves. At their core, breakers were a desperate defensive play to interrupt the opponent's offense and reset neutral. There was no real mind game involved between the players. Offensive player got damage in and forced the opponent to lose their meter, thus giving them a potential advantage at the cost of losing their combo. Defensive player lost their meter, but also avoided damage and forced everything back to neutral to give themselves a chance again.

Breakaways, however, are a forced mind game on both players' part for EVERY launching combo. The defensive player is granted a tool that potentially gives them the ability to punish their opponent despite said defensive player making a mistake. That's asinine design and punishes players for succeeding. As Sonic said, that shit is unacceptable. This creates a disparity in the cast for combo extenders / enders as some characters who have long whiff recovery specials in their BnBs that can be punished for attempting to combo with while others have quick whiff recovery specials that aren't punishable in their BnBs (see: Scorpion spear vs. Geras choke). In addition, breakaways are launch-only combo breakers thus forcing a disparity in potential damage between the cast as those with great non-launching combos have access to consistent unbreakable damage. So breakaways give a defensive tool that can result in punishing players' success, forces a power rift in BnB specials for said potential punishment for succeeding, and forces a power rift in launch vs. non-launch combo potential.

Bonus kicker: breaker would have been perfectly fine in MK11 with auto-regen defensive meter because it wouldn't have had that same meter building disparity issue. No meter disparity, no launch vs. non-launch disparity -- breaker would have been a perfect defensive tool in the context of MK11.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
M2Dave said:
To play devil's advocate, is breakaway really as bad as people claim? Obviously, scenarios for which you get punished for trying to do combos are unacceptable. However, the implication that breakaway benefits bad players is nonsensical. You have access to the same tool that your opponent does. Breakaway favors a player no more than flawless blocking does. Another argument is that in previous Mortal Kombat games the top tier characters took advantage of combo breakers on a consistent basis because they built meter quickly. The option has been universalized in Mortal Kombat 11 so that the whole roster can properly exploit it.
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It does not matter, some characters will be better at it than others, cassie, jacqui, cage are among the archtype that will delete most chars who need a decent launch to even do the damage some of these characters do without getting you off the ground and some even do it from a 7f normal.

I personally think that games that allows you run Away from a mistake after being punished are a thing from the past, NRS needs to think seriously about letting breakers go and don't implement neither it or break aways or any other form of "shit time to escape punishment" mechanic that punishes players for making a right read in their game.

As slow and as simple as mk11 is, clearly not even breakaways should be a thing.
 
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Swindle

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
I’m not a talented enough player to really know what has to change as far as fighting game mechanics go due to the butterfly effect of such changes. Furthermore, I’m too lazy and impatient to become good enough to intelligently participate in these discussions in a meaningful way.
But I will say this: Kitana needs some better skins.
 
Arqwart

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
DeftMonk said:
what game u playin bro? At most they will have to guess strike/throw. If that is scary then I reccomend u guys never leave the land of mk11.
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As a Buzzed D'Vorah player, I'd LOVE if breakaways completely fucked the defensive player while also giving me plenty of time to set up strepsiptera. Shit would be so dope
 
NaughtySenpai

NaughtySenpai

Kombatant
Arqwart said:
As a Buzzed D'Vorah player, I'd LOVE if breakaways completely fucked the defensive player while also giving me plenty of time to set up strepsiptera. Shit would be so dope
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Not the worst thing in the world either. The damage scaling those bugs cause hardly results in any reward.
 
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