So how come Reptile became so pop in current tourneys?

[THTB]

I have played some pretty okay Mileenas. Even then, the matchup is dumb as hell.

 

[Red]

cause reptile needs a nerf...

the elbow dash needs some more startup and recovery frames on it

 

[Scoot Magee]

I have played some pretty okay Mileenas. Even then, the matchup is dumb as hell.

I tend to throw out forcballs after a knockdown and intentionally eat teleport kicks just so I can bait it next time with a ex force ball and land some nice damage off of it. I don't know how a good mileena would react to that but I figered eating a TP kick to set up for better damage next time was a pretty good trade off.

 

[Scoot Magee]

cause reptile needs a nerf...

the elbow dash needs some more startup and recovery frames on it

No people just need to block more against reptile. After that you realise how unsafe the move really is. It's punished by a full combo from most of the cast.

 

[Red]

i played in a tourney last night...

i did block.. the guy that won the tourney used reptile. i think i was the only player in the tourney that had experience against a reptile.. just by playing online.. the elbow dash is unstoppable cause the lag in this game.. but i also learned some from watchin the tom brady vs chris g match of ceo 2011 mk grand finals..

so i knew pretty much the potential of the dash..... and the kid at the tourney used it the same way...
I blocked it mostly.. I say my blocks against it compared to the hits i received from it were either 60-40 or 50-50,,,,
I was 1 of 2 players thats actually beat the guy in a game.. and I was the first of the tourney to beat him in a game..

i just think the dash starts up so fast.. like you cant see it..other movoes like peoples slides and what not you can see coming.. shoot even jades x-ray you can see coming.. but reptiles dash.. you just gotta hope for the best imo..

and a player can repeat the dash over and over.. the recoverry frames seem non-existent..

if you havent seen this video ... you may understand what im talking about after watching it, .
but if they still want to keep this powerful special.. i hope they atleast add more recovery frames.. cause its literally as fast as what kanos upball used to be.

just feels illegal to me..

 

[Scoot Magee]

Retiles dash is the only way he can punish fast recovering specials like kungs hat spin consistently. His dash speed is extremely slow which limits his mobilty outside of the dash. If you guys are playing on laggy hdtv's then thats something technical that needs to be worked out. Does this game have a built in input lag outside of hdtv's?

 

[Cburnham81]

i played in a tourney last night...

i did block.. the guy that won the tourney used reptile. i think i was the only player in the tourney that had experience against a reptile.. just by playing online.. the elbow dash is unstoppable cause the lag in this game.. but i also learned some from watchin the tom brady vs chris g match of ceo 2011 mk grand finals..

so i knew pretty much the potential of the dash..... and the kid at the tourney used it the same way...
I blocked it mostly.. I say my blocks against it compared to the hits i received from it were either 60-40 or 50-50,,,,
I was 1 of 2 players thats actually beat the guy in a game.. and I was the first of the tourney to beat him in a game..

i just think the dash starts up so fast.. like you cant see it..other movoes like peoples slides and what not you can see coming.. shoot even jades x-ray you can see coming.. but reptiles dash.. you just gotta hope for the best imo..

and a player can repeat the dash over and over.. the recoverry frames seem non-existent..

but if they still want to keep this powerful special.. i hope they atleast add more recovery frames.. cause its literally as fast as what kanos upball used to be.

just feels illegal to me..

Reptile's normal dash is non-existant. When other characters can (normal) dash in on certain blocked or whiffed specials and complete a full combo. Reptile has to settle with only a Elbow Dash for 11%.
But just because you lost a tournament to Reptile doesnt mean he needs a nerf. Hell just because Brady lost to a reptile doesnt mean he needs a nerf. Give it time...pretty soon everybody will know how to properly handle and punish reptile with their said character. The game is still Sooo New...

 

[Red]

its not that it is overpowered... cause i was blocking it very well.. i was reading the player game mostly through the game...

repltile plays very midrange imo...

i just think reptile can get back on block too fast after his e-dash and he can e-dash literally almost immediately after he e-dashes

and to the man that was talking about kunlao's spin...
they've nerfed his spin and have nerfed it suffiiciently.. if a lao players whiffs or misses his spin its completely punishable... his dash speed is not completely slow.. its faster than anyones slide... its a special of its own kind

im not whining cause after the game i realised what my mistakes were, but i do think it is a special of his that needs to have more frames added. i think they should do the same thing to the e-dash that they did to KL's spin.

 

[Scoot Magee]

To get any good damage off that punish you have to use meter. Ex dash then slide but it does like 25% or something around that number. But yeah it cost's you a bar. If you're doing regular dash you have to guess right like 4 or 5 times to kung laos 1 right guess into 45% damage.

 

[Red]

completely agree hardwire

 

[THTB]

Just a heads up...that same Reptile lost to a Kabal player. Does Kabal need a nerf...?

Just so everyone knows, Reptile's fastest generic low is 8f, and and his fastest standing normal is 11f. His only normal with range is d4, which is only a free blocked acid hand. Reptile has to resort to a 5f special that's not safe on block in areas where other characters can just d1 to deal with pressure. Yes, it gives him a great punisher and a tool for escaping pressure, but at the cost that the character has to be unsafe to get out of pressure. Not to mention, in a lot of instances it's his ONLY way to punish things.

Slowing down the startup destroys a lot about the character. Adding recovery isn't a solution either...all it does is make it so that Grandma can punish. If there was a practice mode that worked, none of you guys would be saying this move is too good. I assure you this.

 

[hardwire]

Just a heads up...that same Reptile lost to a Kabal player. Does Kabal need a nerf...?

Just so everyone knows, Reptile's fastest generic low is 8f, and and his fastest standing normal is 11f. His only normal with range is d4, which is only a free blocked acid hand. Reptile has to resort to a 5f special that's not safe on block in areas where other characters can just d1 to deal with pressure. Yes, it gives him a great punisher and a tool for escaping pressure, but at the cost that the character has to be unsafe to get out of pressure. Not to mention, in a lot of instances it's his ONLY way to punish things.

Slowing down the startup destroys a lot about the character. Adding recovery isn't a solution either...all it does is make it so that Grandma can punish. If there was a practice mode that worked, none of you guys would be saying this move is too good. I assure you this.

do i really need to bring up the smoke otg argument again

why not instead of defending a broken move we discus what could be changed to fix reptile and keep him from being a spam fighter.

 

[Red]

to me a solution to that would be adding 2 or more startup frames to the elbow dash,

the recovery frame could be done without.. but adding startup frames would make a reptile player be very picky and wait for the right moment to use elbow dash.. instead of repeating the special wildly...

and to the man that said ... that the same reptile player lost to a kabal...
was that pre-patch kabal.. or a patched kabal.. ...

cause anyone could lose to a prepatch kabal...

but even kabal after the patch.. i think is perfect and balanced... kabal again prevails to be the best character in MK.. just like he was in UMK3

i do not think kabal needs to be touched any longer..

 

[Scoot Magee]

Just a heads up...that same Reptile lost to a Kabal player. Does Kabal need a nerf...?

Just so everyone knows, Reptile's fastest generic low is 8f, and and his fastest standing normal is 11f. His only normal with range is d4, which is only a free blocked acid hand. Reptile has to resort to a 5f special that's not safe on block in areas where other characters can just d1 to deal with pressure. Yes, it gives him a great punisher and a tool for escaping pressure, but at the cost that the character has to be unsafe to get out of pressure. Not to mention, in a lot of instances it's his ONLY way to punish things.

Slowing down the startup destroys a lot about the character. Adding recovery isn't a solution either...all it does is make it so that Grandma can punish. If there was a practice mode that worked, none of you guys would be saying this move is too good. I assure you this.

Exactly. All reptiles normals have extremely slow startup.

 

[BATTLEBEAR]

do i really need to bring up the smoke otg argument again

why not instead of defending a broken move we discus what could be changed to fix reptile and keep him from being a spam fighter.

Im sorry but.... what.???? How is reptile a spam fighter. First of all that word is obsolete at high levels of competition considering "spamming" isn't even a viable strategy against anyone good, because you will lose. Do you mean zoning? Because yes he can play a zoning game, but i assure you if you "spam" any of his specials..you will be defeated. Reptile needs nothing. He is fine. It is talk like this that influence NRS poor patching decisions and why our game is ridiculed by the monsters and skeptics

 

[ZeroEffect]

I have played some pretty okay Mileenas. Even then, the matchup is dumb as hell.

THTB... I dunno man, I'd really like to know how in the world Mileena gives Reptile any problems at all? This match feels even at worst for him...

 

[hardwire]

Im sorry but.... what.???? How is reptile a spam fighter. First of all that word is obsolete at high levels of competition considering "spamming" isn't even a viable strategy against anyone good, because you will lose. Do you mean zoning? Because yes he can play a zoning game, but i assure you if you "spam" any of his specials..you will be defeated. Reptile needs nothing. He is fine. It is talk like this that influence NRS poor patching decisions and why our game is ridiculed by the monsters and skeptics

spamming dash

we saw it ceo so dont act like it does not happen

 

[Red]

i dont think reptile is a spam fighter.. i just think the elbow dash needs to be more punishable in some form.. the recovery just seems to short..

i think the range fo the dash is perfect... and the damage is perfect.. but the startup and recovery up it i am at disgust upon..

every other movement special in the game i can see coming.. the dash.. i do not see coming.. because it is so quick and there is hardly a start up upon it. and the recovery time is so short that a by the time you try to punish it.. you literally are getting elbowdashed again.. or he is on block,

at least with kunlao spin.. its like haaa.. you idiot you spun and now i kill you
the same with kabals nomad dash... their very punishable.. and thats how i think reptiles elbow dash should be.. just as punishable as kabals...

 

[hardwire]

i dont think reptile is a spam fighter.. i just think the elbow dash needs to be more punishable in some form.. the recovery just seems to short..

i think the range fo the dash is perfect... and the damage is perfect.. but the startup and recovery up it i am at disgust upon..

every other movement special in the game i can see coming.. the dash.. i do not see coming.. because it is so quick and there is hardly a start up upon it. and the recovery time is so short that a by the time you try to punish it.. you literally are getting elbowdashed again.. or he is on block,

at least with kunlao spin.. its like haaa.. you idiot you spun and now i kill you
the same with kabals nomad dash... their very punishable.. and thats how i think reptiles elbow dash should be.. just as punishable as kabals...

thats what i mean by spamable

even if you block it they can almost use it instantly again

ive had plenty of times that i could not drop block b4 they threw it out again.



i dont see why all moves like that dont ball em up

just like smokes tp
kunglaus dive kick
melinas roll
scorpions tp

why cant they all be like this why is it ok for 1 group to have that much punishability but its not ok for others?

 

[truendymion]

i dont think reptile is a spam fighter.. i just think the elbow dash needs to be more punishable in some form.. the recovery just seems to short..

i think the range fo the dash is perfect... and the damage is perfect.. but the startup and recovery up it i am at disgust upon..

every other movement special in the game i can see coming.. the dash.. i do not see coming.. because it is so quick and there is hardly a start up upon it. and the recovery time is so short that a by the time you try to punish it.. you literally are getting elbowdashed again.. or he is on block,

at least with kunlao spin.. its like haaa.. you idiot you spun and now i kill you
the same with kabals nomad dash... their very punishable.. and thats how i think reptiles elbow dash should be.. just as punishable as kabals...

Maybe make it duckable like JC and NW? I don't think adding frames is a good solution. As others have said its his only way to punish in a lot of situations. And it doesn't lead to combos either (unless you burn a bar)

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Maybe you guys should learn to expect the dash and block it, at the very least, you can attempt to throw it every single time.

 

[salvificblood]

Which numbers do you find questionable?

It's not that I think they're "wrong", it's just the case that I can see some of them changing significantly as the game ages... for all characters, not just Reptile. That's why I haven't been judging which characters I think are the best based on the matchup spreadsheet.

I don't mean to give the impression I think I know more about the matchups because I don't but I think matchups like the Sub-Zero, Reptile one, for instance, will end up more as a 5-5 rather than a 6-4 either way.

 

[cabibi]

If reptile's dash is so easily punished as it is, then why be against giving more recovery frames for it? I mean it's already easily punished, it's not like extra recover frames on block would hurt your game right?

The start up frames are fine. I can expect the dash, and most players should too... but he needs extra frames to recover on block... the only reason reptile players say "it's punished easy enough as it is" is because they know they benefit from it lol... if you guys truly felt this way, then giving him extra recover frames on block wouldn't even matter to you.

 

[Red]

continueing with what ive been saying...


im not saying that the matchups are unbalanced...
i just think the elbowdash is broken...

in the sense of comparable to how scarlet has infinite dagger throw when canceled... an how kabal used to have infinite block.. but with reptile its slightly different, reptiles recovery on his eblow dash when you block it is too fast.. you rarely can punish it..

trust me.. i blocked it a nearly the whole time when i played the reptile at the tournament .. but the its hardly punishable. they just need to make it more punishable.. some how some way.. they dont need to change reptile up cause hes perfect the way he is.. they just need to make his elbow dash brutally punishable cause the recovery is too short... if you blocked it

 

[Cburnham81]

spamming dash

we saw it ceo so dont act like it does not happen

We didnt see dash spamming at CEO. You have to understand reptile has Absolutely NO mobility outside of Elbow Dash! Thats why Reptile players dash around the screen and dash in behind forceballs. Because otherwise he would never Ever be able to get in on an opponent.

Also using the word "spam" when referring to any tactic being used at high level is just ignorant.