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Smoke Shake Glitch - Should it be unbanned?

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
It certainly won't happen but a patch sure would be nice to take out some of these questionable things in the game. No more this is it fair, am I using the game to it's potential and that bullshit. Is it ethical, is it fair, is it ban-able in tournaments. Just see what NRS thinks is broken and let them figure it out. We do enough complaining about stuff, half the things that got patched because of our bitching might have made the game less balanced. Raidens strings, Jade's U3, Kano's knives, Sonya's cartwheel armor, dashing in general, were all things that didn't really need to be touched among other things.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
REO, how come you say to everyone that they need to respond with well warranted arguments and then when FrothyOmen does you say nothing? if you want a discussion have one. if you dont, stahp
Because I agree with his post, hence why I liked it. I don't argue with people who I agree with.
 

Gh0sty

ばかみたいに無料
Since this "glitch" was discovered, has anyone encountered it outside of the Reo v xsmokex match at Toryuken? In casuals? Tournaments? It seems like this glitch/feature is so random that it hardly warrants discussion. If this thread is a vehicle for a comparative examination of the logic behind banning certain glitches and not others, I'll bite. The Smoke "glitch" is not the same as the other invincibility glitches that have recently come to light and it belongs in a grey area in between resets and cheating. It can be triggered accidentally. It can be avoided. It should be treated on a case by case basis in tournaments. Un-ban it and assess each occurrence on its own situational factors. My hunch is, we will never see this in tourney play again.





Sent from my jailbroken iPhone using a pirated copy of Tapatalk
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
It's banning something that will only happen by random anyways, if i were the opponent i'd love to have Smoke waste his bar lmao.

Perhaps we could create a rule, since the frozen ability is 14 secs you can easily double invisibility to make him visible again (That is, if the invisibility even occurs, it's a 1/3 chance of it happening in an already 1/1000 glitch) and you can still have time to combo off of it.

Think of it as a risky CSZ Ex Parry but it isn't full proof and has 28f start up, and a read involved. Sounds shit-tier now, doesn't it? lol.
 

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
Thanks for discussing your opinion in a very depth manner and showing others why it needs to be banned and is too powerful in competitive play.
You're welcome.​
Actually, I was at work and didn't have time to specify specifics on why I don't like the idea of allowing a character to have such a glitch, but my answer should have sufficed enough. I'm simply in disagreement with you despite your key points, which you obviously took time to develop (and that's fine), but I'm someone who doesn't care for exploiting tactics that are not defined by the game's rules (No where is it stated that Smoke should be allowed permanent invisibility and the player be paralyzed if X=X, anywhere, period), especially if it's in the MLG Circuit.​
Now, I would say that this glitch should have more of a SOFT ban type deal. It really doesn't add to Smoke's gameplay because the odds of pulling it off are so slim anyways. You want to try this glitch? Go for it. In a tournament though, I'd prefer that the match gets reset if the glitch does occur and causes compromisable damage to the other player's chances of winning. It's just broken. You literally force the player to stand their with their thumbs up their ass, which is not what the developers intended when they gave ENH-Shake the properties it has.​
There's my piece on it. It caused a lot of controversy then, for some apparent reason. It'd be all the better to just keep this glitch as off the books and unallowed while MK is in the MLG Circuit.​
Afterwards? Use it all you want. I could care less at that point. I'm not going to argue though. Ban or no ban, my opinion on any glitch like that is not going to move.​
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
You're welcome.​
Actually, I was at work and didn't have time to specify specifics on why I don't like the idea of allowing a character to have such a glitch, but my answer should have sufficed enough. I'm simply in disagreement with you despite your key points, which you obviously took time to develop (and that's fine), but I'm someone who doesn't care for exploiting tactics that are not defined by the game's rules (No where is it stated that Smoke should be allowed permanent invisibility and the player be paralyzed if X=X, anywhere, period), especially if it's in the MLG Circuit.​
Now, I would say that this glitch should have more of a SOFT ban type deal. It really doesn't add to Smoke's gameplay because the odds of pulling it off are so slim anyways. You want to try this glitch? Go for it. In a tournament though, I'd prefer that the match gets reset if the glitch does occur and causes compromisable damage to the other player's chances of winning. It's just broken. You literally force the player to stand their with their thumbs up their ass, which is not what the developers intended when they gave ENH-Shake the properties it has.​
There's my piece on it. It caused a lot of controversy then, for some apparent reason. It'd be all the better to just keep this glitch as off the books and unallowed while MK is in the MLG Circuit.​
Afterwards? Use it all you want. I could care less at that point. I'm not going to argue though. Ban or no ban, my opinion on any glitch like that is not going to move.​
Amen

Why is this even being considered? Cause Reo said so?
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
this glitch isn't anywhere near as bad as the 2nd round invincibility glitch, i'd be completely ok with it except for the fact that theres the permanent invisibility on afterwards which makes it nearly impossible to get any reads on the opponent whatsoever. Other than that tho, its really no different than cyber subs Ex parry.
 
Shang Tsung's EX Soul Steal Glitch is pretty practical, but it's not banned.
that.

is.

not.

a.

glitch.

and it doesn't happen after just ex soul steal either.

also on topic, i don't see the point of unbanning it if it's never going to happen in tournament play anyway...
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
Banning this glitch creates more problems than it solves and adds unnecessary burden to TDs and players. I'd hate to think that a Smoke player has to constantly be on guard to make sure he's shaking at the right time so that the game doesn't glitch out on him, and considering that the only known cases of this happening have been accidental, I think it puts Smoke players at a disadvantage to have an *extra* element on their mind at gametime.

The problem I have with gray area rules on glitches (for example, if we made it so that "it's ok if the glitch happens by accident") is that the decision on the game is then thrown to the TD. If you have any experience with TDs, you know that while they're supposed to be impartial, they have the power to screw you royally if you happen to be in a beef with them (or even if they just don't like you). Just the way it is, unfortunately.

In that respect, I think we should leave as many decisions out of their hands as possible and keep the rules black and white. Considering there is very little practical use for this glitch, it should most-definitely be unbanned. Sorry, rambled a bit but I didn't care enough to edit myself :).
 

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
I'm finally starting to see REO isn't trolling sometimes... Also, I could live with the smoke glitch, but I think XSmokeX made the best argument when he stated it could potentially affect all 3 rounds. I can't make a better case on the glitch than he did.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
honestly i don't htink anyones gonna build there game around a glitch that requires a just frame. just saying...
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
So what's the best way to come to a final decision about this? We could repoll the whole community, but that means any random person can throw in their 2 cents.

In my opinion, making a decision about something this controversial should only be done by players who have placed in the top 8 at fairly recent major tournaments. These players understand this game and the SPG more than our community as a whole. I would be comfortable letting them speak for us here if that's a possibility.
REO
 

Temjiin

www.mkxframedata.com
If i may...

The glitch is highly impractical and you'll never hit on purpose, with exception of a jump-in punch / kick. (Lots of frames before the attack comes out, so if you read it you have plenty of time to react) So that leaves one practical way to hit this glitch, and even then, the opponent could simply empty jump into a poke.

Arguing that input bug plays a legitimate role in this glitch being "broken" because it makes you unable to counter it is laughable >.> Seriously, you can D3, D4, any low, and half of the specials break it; input bug is easy to avoid if you understand it. The glitch is easily couterable, any person who tries to do this intentionally vs. high level players will simply burn their bar, leaving them with no meter to break or use resets, which is not something Smoke wants to do.

That being said, i don't think the glitch should be unbanned simply because of the random invisibility it grants. Having full-game invis negates footsies to purely reads and removes any and all reactional counters that the opponent might have normally. This is a truley severe disadvantage for the opponent. Unlike the reset where you use meter to give you a better shot at winning one round this glitch has the potential to effect all 3 rounds

If this glitch only allowed for the free combo, and did not grant invisibility, then it's just a cheap version of CSZ's parry that has a 28f startup and is inconsistent and it probably could remain. The glitch will still happen accidentally in tournament play because you're trying to whiff punish your opponents poke when they are attempting to beat your ex shake. This glitch was discovered accidentally, happened in my very first tournament, it will happen again.

If this does remain banned it should not result in a DQ of the game, instead the match should resume from where it left off. Since the opponent takes no damage Smoke can simply back off, and let the opponent fall to the floor, therefore not affecting the game at all. (Except Smoke loses a bar)
Are you seriously 15? I thought you were older than me when I met you and you're infinitely more articulate than 95% of the adults that post here.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
If this glitch gets unbanned, its just a matter of smoke fools turn the not pratical into pratical, then is just glich everyone ass for 14 secs with life lead and the game is on
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
If it's a huge waste of time then why unban it?
Completely dumb thread, wanting to unban something you think isn't worth using.
That's like buying ice cream for a diabetic waste of time.
Because if it happens accidentally, which it does, you could be DQ'd which is totally unnacceptable. The glitch could remain banned, however Smoke would just have to let the opponent fall. Since this does no damage it doesn't heavily affect the match, with the exception of 14 seconds off of the clock, and a bar wasted for Smoke.

It's not a "this is really apart of his game it shouldn't be banned" type of thing, but more of a "how can you ban something random, and give out a DQ" for me.

There is no way to make this "practical" it has a 28f minimum start up, you're never going to hit it between pressure strings, if it has a 28f gap why not just 21~sb and save a bar? lmao. That further extends your lifelead and builds you more meter rather than taking it away. It doesn't parry lows so you can't even catch those check-up D4's. The only thing you're going to ever hit on purpose is a jumping attack, because that is the only attack in the game that has that many frames and you can somewhat easily react to. Why you would want to do this glitch is mystery, considering you could just 2 AA again and save a bar.

The only real advantage here is the full game invis, like i said sure they can ban that. But banning something random is unfair tbqh.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
Because if it happens accidentally, which it does, you could be DQ'd which is totally unnacceptable. The glitch could remain banned, however Smoke would just have to let the opponent fall. Since this does no damage it doesn't heavily affect the match, with the exception of 14 seconds off of the clock, and a bar wasted for Smoke.

It's not a "this is really apart of his game it shouldn't be banned" type of thing, but more of a "how can you ban something random, and give out a DQ" for me.

There is no way to make this "practical" it has a 28f minimum start up, you're never going to hit it between pressure strings, if it has a 28f gap why not just 21~sb and save a bar? lmao. That further extends your lifelead and builds you more meter rather than taking it away. It doesn't parry lows so you can't even catch those check-up D4's. The only thing you're going to ever hit on purpose is a jumping attack, because that is the only attack in the game that has that many frames and you can somewhat easily react to. Why you would want to do this glitch is mystery, considering you could just 2 AA again and save a bar.

The only real advantage here is the full game invis, like i said sure they can ban that. But banning something random is unfair tbqh.
xSMoKEx I wasn't using the input bug as an excuse to why you CAN'T counter it I'm just saying....it happens like we've all seen lol

In a case that what happened to you and REO, I'm not sure how much damage an ex shake does but I'd grant the Smoke player a free uppercut instead of the Smoke player just backing off.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
Stay on topic. If you have nothing productive to say in this thread, do not post. If you are just going to call people idiots or "how can you think that" when we disagree with you, do not post. You are allowed to have differing opinions. You are supposed to debate them. That is the point of this subforum. DO NOT, and I repeat DO NOT MAKE THINGS PERSONAL. If I even CONSIDER your post to be an attack upon another person, a trollpost, or not backed up by enough fact/logic/reason, it will be removed. No questions asked. Got a problem with that? Don't post here. Think I've removed your post unjustfully? Fine. PM me. I will paste you what you said, and you can work on your post and make it better, then resubmit it and I will unban you from posting in the thread.

Remember where you are right now. You are in the Outworld Remonstrate. The rules are different in here.

Carry on.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Premium Supporter
No glitch besides the Invincibility glitches should be banned. In no game is permanent invincibility not banned in tournament play.

However, you can't really debate this. This tool allows Smoke some extra damage and a 1/3 chance of invisibility. If it gets banned, then we go back to the age old 'ban cyrax resets!' argument. You get caught in a net and take 80%? That's basically auto win with no breaker. That's way less fair than the Smoke Shake "glitch" - BB3 = 80% vs an extremely unlikely, impractical dash cancel?

It's a slippery slope when you start saying one character is more broken than another. The only thing we can all agree on is that permanent invincibility is truly a glitch in the game. Nothing else comes close to this - it's universally unbeatable.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
As retarded as damage resets are, you still have at least some control of your character, even if it's only a breaker.

Something that causes you to completely lose control of your character like this, regardless of how impractical it is to pull off, shouldn't be allowed in my opinion.

Game balance issues aside, this game gets shit on enough by the mainstream FGC for being broken. Something like this would be much worse in that regard.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it being allowed, but that doesn't change my opinion about it.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
As retarded as damage resets are, you still have at least some control of your character, even if it's only a breaker.

Something that causes you to completely lose control of your character like this, regardless of how impractical it is to pull off, shouldn't be allowed in my opinion.

Game balance issues aside, this game gets shit on enough by the mainstream FGC for being broken. Something like this would be much worse in that regard.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it being allowed, but that doesn't change my opinion about it.
You really think this game gets shit on by other FGCs? What about SFxT? What about MAHVEL BAYBEE? What about Skullgirls? What about P4A? Everyone hates the shit out of those games way more than MK9. People just don't give a fuck about MK rather than hating it...

However that's offtopic, so I digress. The only times the SPG is going to happen is on accident, LBSH. It's unfair to the smoke player to have to constantly worry about that, and if it does happen on accident to have to forfeit the game.
 

Lemon1991

#4 Quan-chi on Deadly Alliance
I think this is much different than the invisible hitbox glitch off of blocking after winning the first round. That's truly game breaking. This? No, not at all. Should just warrant an automatic DQ for anyone who uses it in a competitive setting. Go nuts online though