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Smoke Shake Glitch - Should it be unbanned?

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
The Smoke glitch is a perfect example of something that was prematurely banned by the community through some respectable players overreacting. Lots of crying emerged from the community in general when xSMoKEx discovered this glitch. A lot of complaining followed up afterwards for something that was never a big deal to begin with, which led to it's unjustified ban.


Allow me to explain the Smoke Glitch in-depth for those of you who are not too familiar with it:
Here is a video for those of you who want to see it in action:



In order to set up the opportunity to even use the glitch, you must first use a bar of meter for enhanced shake. After you activate enhance shake, you must dash-cancel the frame an attack comes in contact with Smoke when you cancel with a dash. If done correctly, Smoke will disappear and the opponent will be left frozen for a span of 14 seconds, where they are vulnerable to attack. Smoke will also have one out of three outcomes listed below randomly happen to him:

Randomly, you may get one out of these three outcomes when you perform the glitch properly.

1.) The opponent is frozen and you can get a free combo.

2.) The opponent is frozen and you can get a free combo. An animation will follow wear smoke is emitting around you. The effect will end after a few seconds and wear off, making you reappear.

3.) The opponent is frozen and you get a free combo. Smoke is invisible and there is no smoke animation emitting from you. You have successfully drew the luck of the draw and gained permanent invincibility.



Here is why I think the Smoke Glitch should not be banned:

- Can only be attempted at the availability and use of meter
In order for the Smoke player to even think of using this glitch, he must have meter to spare. This is not an exploit that is available for use at all times during a match whenever you want. If there is no meter available, there is no attempting the glitch.
- Highly impractical
The Smoke glitch is highly impractical in competitive play. As the Smoke player, you must dash-cancel the enhanced shake when an opponent's attack comes into contact the very frame you decide to dash-cancel. This is humanly impossible to do on reaction. Think of all the bars of meter that will go to waste for someone trying to push their luck on wanting to activate this glitch. How many bars of meter will you throw away until you say to yourself "maybe this isn't worth it?".
- Very easy to prevent and counter for the opponent
The opponent is in total control of this glitch as far as giving the Smoke player a chance to activate it is concerned. The opponent can choose whether to attack Smoke during the enhanced shake or not. If the opponent approaches Smoke and does not do an attack that can be parried, then the Smoke player cannot activate the glitch.
- No guaranteed set-ups
There are no guaranteed set-ups for this glitch. The Smoke player cannot activate the enhanced shake glitch when escaping frame-traps up close, which is a common scenario where enhanced shake is successful. The reason for this is because shake cancel is 28 frames. You must activate the enhanced shake and then wait until the 28th frame in order to cancel. The opponent can completely counter the use of random-guess enhance shake cancels, by NOT attacking and baiting you into cancelling. The opponent can also counter random-guess enhance shake cancels by using a move that cannot be parried, like a d+3. This will put the Smoke player in a bad position as they wasted a bar just to be put in pressure.



In closing, I think the Smoke Glitch is way too impractical to warrant a ban. There are too many ways to counter the glitch. In fact, you'd have a better chance at pulling this glitch off by mistake than purposely in a major tournament. From this point on, I hope certain glitches get extensively tested in high-level play before players come to a conclusion and yell "BAN!".


Discuss.
 

ETC AdmiralAugustus

Grabble Frazzled
Premium Supporter
Yes. Play to win.

*Edited to fit the standard of where this thread is located.

One thing I hate about other games is that they ban elements to make it 'tournament viable'. It's disgraceful. We should be proud of our game, and everything broken that's in it.

If we ban things like this, and System REO, where does it end? Cyrax can't use any double net reset? Jax can only do 1 loop in the corner? Smoke isn't allowed to reset? It would be ridiculous and I would be ashamed to say I play this game competitively.

We're the Mortal Kombat Kommunity, not the Smash Community. We should be just playing our games how they are. Quan should be able to become invincible, Jax should loop you to death in the corner, Cyrax should have 100+% resets midscreen, Smoke should Parry glitch you, etc.

We're banning off fear, not results.
 

B Pryme

Noob
I don't think it should be banned. Like you said impractical, and anyone playing with this idea solely in mind is not gonna make it far in a tourney. The only bad thing it does is show "outsiders" the broken-ness of our game lol.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
give a broken character more broken stuff?

online play-sure
tournaments-hell no
Smoke is broken? Name me some major tournaments a player using all Smoke has won.

No its a glitch all glitch's should be banned
Then explain to me why this game is full of other glitches (like KL enhanced teleport drop armor) that are not banned?
 

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
Premium Supporter
This glitch is very easy to counter and it would be obvious if attempted. Not to mention how difficult it would be to pull off in a real match.

Personally it shouldn't be banned because its not even remotely game breaking, if this glitch could be activated in an extremely easy way that makes it possible to do in online in the hell-stage fighting against a foreign player in tag mode 10/10 times it should raise alarms.

Maybe its just me but I don't really get tooo fazed when fighting a Smoke or even Cyrax...both characters have NO WAY to threaten you if you have a life lead and avoid their projectiles. You can block Smoke's bombs and retain a lifelead until he decides to come to you and hurt you, which puts the game in you the smoke-opponent's favor.

Cyrax is the same more or less. You have to move around his bomb's blast radius and block nets and punish any impatience and maintain your lifelead. This is why a zoning Cyrax is a joke. Literally a net and a dream.

EDIT: But Jax's are different lol 100% off his f4? lol ggs. He's already kinda scary without them.

The advice of "don't get hit" against Cyrax and Smoke is actually really good advice if used properly.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Smoke is broken? Name me some major tournaments a player using all Smoke has won.
I dont want to make this a "who's right or wrong" type of thread. Do you want my opinion or do you want an opportunity to argue why your right?
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
I dont want to make this a "who's right or wrong" type of thread. Do you want my opinion or do you want an opportunity to argue why your right?
I want you to explain your opinion with a lot of detail, which a lot have yet to do in this thread.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
smoke has 100% reset combos. That is broken. So is cyrax bomb resets. So is Jax corner infinits. They were not intended to be in the game. They were attempted to be patched out.

I know that everything can be avoided with caution...but those errors in programing have changed the way the game is played. Anything that is that broken (in my opinion) that changes the way the game is played should not be allowed in tournaments. Those glitches I consider broken (although maybe not as broken as kabal)
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
APEX 2012

and if he used Jax against you, well that's his way of dealing with something else broken.
CD jr used Jax a lot more than Smoke in that entire tournament. If Smoke was so broken, why would he be using Jax in a bunch of pool matches and in top eight?

smoke has 100% reset combos. That is broken. So is cyrax bomb resets. So is Jax corner infinits. They were not intended to be in the game. They were attempted to be patched out.

I know that everything can be avoided with caution...but those errors in programing have changed the way the game is played. Anything that is that broken (in my opinion) that changes the way the game is played should not be allowed in tournaments. Those glitches I consider broken (although maybe not as broken as kabal)
Smoke has broken elements, I agree. But that doesn't mean he's a broken character. If he was a broken character, he would not have 3-7 losing match-ups.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
CD jr used Jax a lot more than Smoke in that entire tournament. If Smoke was so broken, why would he be using Jax in a bunch of pool matches and in top eight?
This has nothing to do with CD jr or why he didnt or did not use certain characters. Those characters make the game unbalanced for lower tier characters. Without those resets the game would be much more balanced.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
This has nothing to do with CD jr or why he didnt or did not use certain characters. Those characters make the game unbalanced for lower tier characters. Without those resets the game would be much more balanced.
This thread is not about if damage resets are fair or not. This thread is about if Smoke's Shake Glitch should be unbanned. If you want to make a thread concerning damage resets, then be my guest. But take this discussion else where.
 

Sasarix

"Heaven Will Fall!"
I never thought the Smoke glitch was that bad anyway. Being Invincible for an entire round is 1 thing but this ranks up there with resets imo. I don't care either way but based on the info it might have been banned a little to quickly. I can't see anyone really thinking this would be their tournament winning strategy.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
I dont want to make this a "who's right or wrong" type of thread. Do you want my opinion or do you want an opportunity to argue why your right?
It's not worth it.


No this should be allowed period, it's an embarrassment to this community and game. I don't care if it's impractical, it can still be done. It freezes the character in place for a period time which the player can take advantage of if they have the life lead for the 14 seconds. When Smoke goes invisible, after you hit him, he should become visible, IT'S GAME BREAKING because that's not how the game is supposed to work.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
CD jr used Jax a lot more than Smoke in that entire tournament. If Smoke was so broken, why would he be using Jax in a bunch of pool matches and in top eight?


Smoke has broken elements, I agree. But that doesn't mean he's a broken character. If he was a broken character, he would not have 3-7 losing match-ups.
Exactly, he has broken elements, we deal with the resets (even though they're not supposed to be there) because there's ways around it. If someone uses the invincibility glitch, there's NO WAY AROUND IT.

Everyone asks the questions "oh resets are broken why are they allowed"...because there's these things called breakers to get around them.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
Like REO stated, this is very difficult to do, making it almost impossible for tournament play. At this point we're now arguing semantics of the word 'ban'. Just let it rock.
ALMOST impossible, making this legal allows Smoke players to practice this and make it more practical and possibly land it (let's be reasonable here) over 50% of the time. Smoke's ex shake is not meant to grant a full combo, just 12% or whatever it does.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
No this should be allowed period, it's an embarrassment to this community and game. I don't care if it's impractical, it can still be done. It freezes the character in place for a period time which the player can take advantage of if they have the life lead for the 14 seconds. When Smoke goes invisible, after you hit him, he should become visible, IT'S GAME BREAKING because that's not how the game is supposed to work.
What embarrasses or makes the community look "bad" is subjective. If your sole purpose for banning this glitch is because it embarrasses the community, then why don't we ban Kabal? Kabal vs Kabal embarrasses the community far more than this impractical glitch. Jax dealing 100%+ damage in the corner is not how the game is supposed to work, this is just one example of many things. And it's your fault for putting yourself in a situation where you got hit by the SPG with 14 seconds left on the clock. It could've been avoided if you played smarter.

Exactly, he has broken elements, we deal with the resets (even though they're not supposed to be there) because there's ways around it. If someone uses the invincibility glitch, there's NO WAY AROUND IT.
There are ways around the SPG. I already explained them in the OP.

Everyone asks the questions "oh resets are broken why are they allowed"...because there's these things called breakers to get around them.
Cyrax has unbreakable damage resets.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Premium Supporter
Any character can just D4 him out of shake, which is what any intelligent player would do anyway vs ex shake.

No real point in having this be banned.

But there's also no point in unbanning it. This should never happen anyway.

Unless it works vs any move, including lows...in which case...it still probably doesn't matter.

@reo's new main = Smoke? Discuss.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
What embarrasses or makes the community look "bad" is subjective. If your sole purpose for banning this glitch is because it embarrasses the community, then why don't we ban Kabal? Kabal vs Kabal embarrasses the community far more than this impractical glitch. Jax dealing 100%+ damage in the corner is not how the game is supposed to work, this is just one example of many things. And it's your fault for putting yourself in a situation where you got hit by the SPG with 14 seconds left on the clock. It could've been avoided if you played smarter.



There are ways around the Smoke Parry Glitch. I already explained them in the OP.



Cyrax has unbreakable damage resets.
You can deal with Kabal as a character, there's tools to deal with him. Jax's damage is situational and can be broken. Kabal vs Kabal is actually extremely fun to watch and is far from embarrassing. A CHARACTER IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FROZEN FOR 14 SECONDS IN ANY GAME, how do you make sense of that?!

There's ways around everything, doesn't make it right for it be in that game.

And if you want to blow all 3 of your meters to prevent me from breaking, be my guest.
 
ALMOST impossible, making this legal allows Smoke players to practice this and make it more practical and possibly land it (let's be reasonable here) over 50% of the time. Smoke's ex shake is not meant to grant a full combo, just 12% or whatever it does.
Shang Tsung's EX Soul Steal Glitch is pretty practical, but it's not banned.