Match-up Discussion Smoke mu chart mk9

[RiBBz22]

You cannot keep away from Reptile. It is impossible for Smoke to keep him there due to dash completely ignoring smoke bomb's tracking. But Reptile struggles to apply any sort of forceball pressure outside of a knockdown or getting an EX slow ball on the screen. It comes down to the b2-range footsies. Smoke is generally better, but it's not free for him either, since dash is also a part of the neutral, as risky as it is in this matchup.

Also, @xarakamaka as far as Liu goes, I'm pretty sure Liu is bullied in footsies and can't play the ranged game. I don't see how he'd win it, honestly, just from a glance at the characters themselves, but I'm not a Liu or Smoke player so take that with a grain of salt. Skarlet, Idk how she'd lose, though. Ribbz would have to explain.

Reptile does well enough against Smoke to go 5-5 with him for sure. He can get up in his face and that is what Smoke players mostly hate. Dash should be a simple punish but due to the lack of range on 2 it is made a little bit tricky. When we used to play it was a lot of fun and you played the MU really well. If Reptile's get dash happy you can blow it up or just keep them a bit more honest by using neutral jump. Dash will whiff and if the reptile player pushes buttons you can just punish them by finishing the jump punch into a combo. Once you do that 1-2 times the Reptile player starts to play a lot more honest and it opens up Smoke's game a bit more.

Liu loses to Smoke for sure IMO. His pressure is not good enough to bully Smoke and Smoke out ranges him big time. Fireball trading with smoke bomb is terrible for Liu. Liu can't just air fireball zone because of IATP and shake...and obviously regular zoning from distance is pointless. Trying to get in with stuff like dragon kick on a read is suicide. The only way to get in is footsies, and Smoke has the advantage there, jumping is also suicide.

Skarlet IMO could be a 5-5, but I think Smoke has a slight advantage. Skarlet's armor is F'ing annoying, and her dagger pressure is great, but so much of her stuff is punishable if she is burning through meter for her good stuff she is going to be slammed by a reset at some point. I would say small advantage for Smoke and probably enough to call it a 6-4.

 

[RM AtK!]

What time Saturday? This is lotus btw

you have my number big guy.. text me ill let u know whatsup. we can meet at psg or my house dont matta

 

[xHolmesyx]

Liu loses to Smoke for sure IMO. His pressure is not good enough to bully Smoke and Smoke out ranges him big time. Fireball trading with smoke bomb is terrible for Liu. Liu can't just air fireball zone because of IATP and shake...and obviously regular zoning from distance is pointless. Trying to get in with stuff like dragon kick on a read is suicide. The only way to get in is footsies, and Smoke has the advantage there, jumping is also suicide.

Skarlet IMO could be a 5-5, but I think Smoke has a slight advantage. Skarlet's armor is F'ing annoying, and her dagger pressure is great, but so much of her stuff is punishable if she is burning through meter for her good stuff she is going to be slammed by a reset at some point. I would say small advantage for Smoke and probably enough to call it a 6-4.

Clearly not played a good Liu Kang or Skarlet. Really wish I could play you to show you how smoke doesn't beat Liu Kang.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

waffles doesnt hit confirm any poke coolwhip . its not rocket science . how many times he will do d3 b23 regardless if the d3 hits or not . -7 into 15 frame move 22nd frame . but will do it repeatedly. thing is your used to him because hes the only smoke you have . you have nothing to compare him with so i can understand YOU not understanding , you have your smoke we have ours . ive seen most his games but hardly finish them because painful to watch. yeh he pokes to frustrate so that he can catch them into d1 anti air . your just prooving how more bad of an idea that actually is and how dumb of a strategy that is lmao. if your going to do a d1 and there blocking and he does 4 in a row waiting for them to jump. d1 blocked -13 into follow up d1 19frames, then honestly think about it why not just go into b23 and launch them! lol and catch a massive combo rather than an aa combo thats a lot trickier to reset! also if second d1 comes out on 19th frame then it shouldnt even catch the aa, unless they slight delay. we've seen your best and ive analysed your bests play but you dont know how we play. i find it insulting that you think hes top smoke and has a good poking game. lemme choose baraka and keep spamming blade charge on block up close over and over . you can call me top baraka if ya like i do it over n over to frustrate and catch them for jumping

That's why you don't understand. Watch Wafflez vs. Dizzy or any of his GGA teammates, he never does multiple D1 on block because he knows they'll blow it up. But, in tournament, Wafflez will test out his opponent's counter-poking by doing D1's, if they can't counterpoke, he keeps doing them, because he'll frustrate them, they'll try to jump out, get hit, and he can convert. You think he's such an idiot scrub to do 5 D1's in a row like that because he thinks it's a good idea?

And LOL @ Wafflez having a bad poking game.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

i main liu scarlett smoke cage if you would like me to do a mu write up with liu to show lius advantage ill be more than happy too . @Eddy Wang could you do the honours for smoke scarlett ? , thanks dude

Reptile does well enough against Smoke to go 5-5 with him for sure. He can get up in his face and that is what Smoke players mostly hate. Dash should be a simple punish but due to the lack of range on 2 it is made a little bit tricky. When we used to play it was a lot of fun and you played the MU really well. If Reptile's get dash happy you can blow it up or just keep them a bit more honest by using neutral jump. Dash will whiff and if the reptile player pushes buttons you can just punish them by finishing the jump punch into a combo. Once you do that 1-2 times the Reptile player starts to play a lot more honest and it opens up Smoke's game a bit more.

Liu loses to Smoke for sure IMO. His pressure is not good enough to bully Smoke and Smoke out ranges him big time. Fireball trading with smoke bomb is terrible for Liu. Liu can't just air fireball zone because of IATP and shake...and obviously regular zoning from distance is pointless. Trying to get in with stuff like dragon kick on a read is suicide. The only way to get in is footsies, and Smoke has the advantage there, jumping is also suicide.

Skarlet IMO could be a 5-5, but I think Smoke has a slight advantage. Skarlet's armor is F'ing annoying, and her dagger pressure is great, but so much of her stuff is punishable if she is burning through meter for her good stuff she is going to be slammed by a reset at some point. I would say small advantage for Smoke and probably enough to call it a 6-4.

 

[GGA N1k0lasss]

i agree with the sektor number

 

[RiBBz22]

Clearly not played a good Liu Kang or Skarlet. Really wish I could play you to show you how smoke doesn't beat Liu Kang.

Get the game on steam and I would challenge you to surprise me with something I have not seen yet. I have played plenty of great Skarlet/Liu Kang players over the ~4 years the game has been out. Also, you can just write up why you think Liu goes even or beats Smoke. I could beat you 10/10 times, but that would not make me think the MU against Liu Kang is 10-0 in Smoke's favor... MU numbers come down to the tools characters have, not win totals in a set or something.

 

[xHolmesyx]

Get the game on steam and I would challenge you to surprise me with something I have not seen yet. I have played plenty of great Skarlet/Liu Kang players over the ~4 years the game has been out. Also, you can just write up why you think Liu goes even or beats Smoke. I could beat you 10/10 times, but that would not make me think the MU against Liu Kang is 10-0 in Smoke's favor... MU numbers come down to the tools characters have, not win totals in a set or something.

Would love to be able to play on steam but I have a mac which doesn't have Windows on it and I cba to buy Windows just to play MK. No point me writing anything. I've tried explaining a match up before when I made a post about why sonya match up is so bad for smoke but ended up getting a ridiculous reply from MIT saying things like u shud use his 19 frame tele to anti air her (Lol).

Liu kang has the right tools do deal with smoke lol smoke has a hard time dealing with him up close. You would probably never understand unless you played me and that's never going to happen so this is a pointless conversation to be honest. Unless you want to play on 360 if the connection is solid.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

th

Get the game on steam and I would challenge you to surprise me with something I have not seen yet. I have played plenty of great Skarlet/Liu Kang players over the ~4 years the game has been out. Also, you can just write up why you think Liu goes even or beats Smoke. I could beat you 10/10 times, but that would not make me think the MU against Liu Kang is 10-0 in Smoke's favor... MU numbers come down to the tools characters have, not win totals in a set or something.

thats great but you havent played my scarlett and liu 2 of 4 of my mains. by the time i get a pc mkx will be out and youll forgot this. i will never lose to any smoke in the world in a set with either. you can say mu write ups arent important but theyre what proove the mu lol there facts. im such a nub i was c88 A squad with me sonic , dab , wound mygod then moved to forever a squad with me curbolicious king and the guy ur talking to distespectfully too. but were all noobs dno wat were talking bout lolol. no one knows smoke or those mus like me u can believe or not it dnt rly matter but at least im willing to give evidence to this whereas your not lol . you prob play lius that do b312 and 213 consistantly. doubt you played a liu that can keep you stuck in mix ups . @trustinme can you believe the doubt in these mus he thinks i dno what im on bout lol

 

[RiBBz22]

th

thats great but you havent played my scarlett and liu 2 of 4 of my mains. by the time i get a pc mkx will be out and youll forgot this. i will never lose to any smoke in the world in a set with either. you can say mu write ups arent important but theyre what proove the mu lol there facts. im such a nub i was c88 A squad with me sonic , dab , wound mygod then moved to forever a squad with me curbolicious king and the guy ur talking to distespectfully too. but were all noobs dno wat were talking bout lolol. no one knows smoke or those mus like me u can believe or not it dnt rly matter but at least im willing to give evidence to this whereas your not lol . you prob play lius that do b312 and 213 consistantly. doubt you played a liu that can keep you stuck in mix ups . @trustinme can you believe the doubt in these mus he thinks i dno what im on bout lol

I don't know what you are talking about. Not sure how you or your friend are feeling disrespected when you are the ones disrespecting me, and I am simply challenging you to play me on steam and show me something about the MU that I have not seen or just write it up. You are super off base here. I am not saying come play me and find out, I would rather see something I haven't seen before that changes my mind about the MU...

I would suggest just keeping the discussion healthy and less pointless insults/cock measuring.

 

[RM AtK!]

th

thats great but you havent played my scarlett and liu 2 of 4 of my mains. by the time i get a pc mkx will be out and youll forgot this. i will never lose to any smoke in the world in a set with either. you can say mu write ups arent important but theyre what proove the mu lol there facts. im such a nub i was c88 A squad with me sonic , dab , wound mygod then moved to forever a squad with me curbolicious king and the guy ur talking to distespectfully too. but were all noobs dno wat were talking bout lolol. no one knows smoke or those mus like me u can believe or not it dnt rly matter but at least im willing to give evidence to this whereas your not lol . you prob play lius that do b312 and 213 consistantly. doubt you played a liu that can keep you stuck in mix ups . @trustinme can you believe the doubt in these mus he thinks i dno what im on bout lol

o_o dats not nice saying all of us dont know the mus m8

 

[Eddy Wang]

@RiBBz22, what does advantages Smoke has over Skarlet in this MU?

 

[RM AtK!]

@RiBBz22, what does advantages Smoke has over Skarlet in this MU?

dmg only thing i can think of

 

[PND_Ketchup]

i agree with the sektor number

N1KOLAS! What the hell are you doing all the way in Chicago these days???

 

[GGA N1k0lasss]

N1KOLAS! What the hell are you doing all the way in Chicago these days???

i moved here about 7 months ago

 

[PND_Ketchup]

i moved here about 7 months ago

I just saw you on one of the GGA streams one night and thought "Wait a minute, WHAAAAAAT?!"

Hope the U.S is treating you well!

 

[16 Bit]

This thread sucks

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

This chart is terrible

Nobody loses to Stryker. He bodies Lui Kang, he bodies Mileena, and he goes even if not has a slight advantage over Kenshi

I'd say the other way round, Kenshi can hop over smoke bombs with b2 and punish them on reaction from the right range.

Smoke will build a lot of meter but if Kenshi has a life lead it's hard to get it back because smoke will have to get closer, but Kenshi has longer reaching normals from the same range that act as. A 5050, and failing that he can dish out spirit charge chip for blockin smoke bombs.

 

[Phosferrax]

we've seen your best and ive analysed your bests play but you dont know how we play. i find it insulting that you think hes top smoke and has a good poking game.

He's won a major though, and is the most succesful smoke so why wouldn't he be considered top? You're a great player but you're sounding like Ra Helio with this comment.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

applogies. i thought you were offending i kinda skim read i thought u said youd beat him 10/10 games like saying ur great and hes a nub . sorry bout that @RiBBz22

Get the game on steam and I would challenge you to surprise me with something I have not seen yet. I have played plenty of great Skarlet/Liu Kang players over the ~4 years the game has been out. Also, you can just write up why you think Liu goes even or beats Smoke. I could beat you 10/10 times, but that would not make me think the MU against Liu Kang is 10-0 in Smoke's favor... MU numbers come down to the tools characters have, not win totals in a set or something.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

yeh . good to see you alive phosfferax long time no see , and just watch him play in these games hes a great reset player and spacing not bad but he has access to tournaments its not like i was in there playing him over there lol. just see commentators going hype over him doing d3 on block into b23 and countless bad plays is all im saying it just offends me when ppl say hes better when is no way near. cant proove myself over here can i but i can write what he does wrong , and wonder why ppl think hes great when he plays poke game like i did 3 years ago :/

He's won a major though, and is the most succesful smoke so why wouldn't he be considered top? You're a great player but you're sounding like Ra Helio with this comment.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

glad to see your alive too foxy . and finally someone agrees

I'd say the other way round, Kenshi can hop over smoke bombs with b2 and punish them on reaction from the right range.

Smoke will build a lot of meter but if Kenshi has a life lead it's hard to get it back because smoke will have to get closer, but Kenshi has longer reaching normals from the same range that act as. A 5050, and failing that he can dish out spirit charge chip for blockin smoke bombs.

 

[Vagrant]

On paper Wafflez is the best smoke but I find it hard to call him the best smoke because of his poor poking game. Wafflez is a good smoke but from what I've seen he has an extremely bad poking game. He does a hell of a lot of d1s on block into more d1s and I've witnessed a lot of people let him get away with it. Anyone who is excellent at counter poking will blow him up for it. Smokes D1 comes out at 19 frames after a blocked D1 which is stupid. The amount of blocked pokes he does into more pokes or strings is ridiculous in my opinion. This was particularly evident at final round. Purely on that reason I can't call him the best smoke and would have to say it's either Xarakamaka or xsmokex. A lot of people will disagree with me but Xarakamakas smoke is definitely fundamentally better imo.

I now have cancer.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

tbh if you were dissing my training partner id prob say your thread sucks too. but im writing valid points and reasons . you can just say this thread sucks without good reasons too at least i wrote why i think hes not great. salty kitanas are my favourite

This thread sucks

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

yeh . good to see you alive phosfferax long time no see , and just watch him play in these games hes a great reset player and spacing not bad but he has access to tournaments its not like i was in there playing him over there lol. just see commentators going hype over him doing d3 on block into b23 and countless bad plays is all im saying it just offends me when ppl say hes better when is no way near. cant proove myself over here can i but i can write what he does wrong , and wonder why ppl think hes great when he plays poke game like i did 3 years ago :/

Givin it the Ra Helios