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Match-up Discussion Smoke mu chart mk9

A F0xy Grampa

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no i dont need tutorials i was tryin teach you :) . 16bit im trying to keep this chill . i understand what your trying to say to me and i have been trying to explain it does work. you gotta be quick and it comes second nature after doing it for over a year and a half and every game hours a day. its like a reflex after a while. you have active frames for example .7 frame poke the animation is active for 7 frames untill it hits the opponent. then after the active frame comes the block stun say -7 . its extremly possible and not on a read . its not like punishing kung laos 21 on reaction as the standing 2 whiffs overhead and you stand up 21 f2 with cage . thats near impossible but reacting to pokes isnt . im keeping this chill 16bit and i know you respect and listen to dizzy but hit confirming d3s is not on a read. ssf4 has even faster frames than mk and the asians do it on reactions. almost at a very scary level :) . i know in your head you think im probably a random noob i can understand your thinking but you also have to think in my shoes dude. we broke every aspect of this game down talking bout it constant for years constantly learning progressing . trust me im a lot higher level than you think. :)
You're confusing it, re-read it 16 bit is right, you gotta have an idea that d1 is coming or you'll never punish it, or just get chewed up by repeated f3s from a character like cage.
 

A F0xy Grampa

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You're reacting to a move. It happens to be a D1 and that's what you've prepared for (so it's sort of a read at the same time). You see movement, you let go of block, you counterpoke, right?

BUT, if that movement happens to be something that isn't a poke (d1, d3, d4), you'll get blown up. The idea is you don't A) block a d1 B) realize: oh, I just blocked Kitana's d1, it's -15, let me punish, and C) punish. You can't react to it like that, otherwise people should literally full combo punish every Kitana d1 every time.
I agree with both sides of the theory here, I could read a d1 and punish a d1, but I'm not gonna get hit by a string if they don't d1 because the animations are either crouching or standing in mk9, no crouching strings.

It seems like both sides are saying the same thing but differently.
 

A F0xy Grampa

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really wanna chat on skype at some point because you confused not only me but mit djt and chris too . i get your saying you can mix up but you just said before you cant react to d1s block stun is too quick and your talking about cancel advantage on d1 cutter and sometimes do 21 instead of d1 to blow up there f3 . which would never work since i react to d1s im not gna f3 you when you do 21 cos i can see and react to you 21

This will all be irrelevant in MKX anyway, invincible backdashes :p

You shoulda played injustice.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
I think you guys are making this too complicated.

You can definately see a blocked poke and say it's a d1/21 whatever but essentially you can't read minds so taking the example by Bit after you've blocked f21 you don't know what she's gonna do ( d1?d1xxcutter?d1xxass?b1?33?21? just backdash? ) so you block and say she does d1? Ok you punish with JC f3 , now say she does d1xxcutter , this changes things since if you hold the block button for too much time you won't be able to crouch under the cutter to punish it and she gets to be at even frames and did some chip .

Now in order to punish the cutter you need to crouch and wait a split second to not get caught standing ( let's say you're going for a f3 punish ), can we agree on this?

Ok now take both situations , in order to punish a raw d1 you need to get off that block button as soon you see the d1 coming and if you did that you'd get caught by the d1xxcutter situation.

All of this ^ takes into account that you decide to block after a blocked f21 , if she did any other thing you'd be there blocking.

This not factoring the poking game is not only made of d1 ( wich have a recognizable blockstun ) but d3 ( way less blockstun and humanly impossible to punish on a reaction , you're good if you can get a check on them with anything other than a d1/d3 ) and every freaking normals and specials the game has in the neutral game.

Also OP , you're 3 years late.
 

TwiztidOne

I don't know who that is...
Okay so I think there's some confusion going on here, both sides of the argument are having different defintions of reaction

Gga dizzy and 16 bits side are looking at reacting to a poke and counter poking as A) getting poked on block B) realizing you've been poked on block. C) realizing pokes are punishable D) inputting punish.

Mit, atk and xaraka are looking at reacting to a poke and counter poking as A) being in a position where you think your opponent's going to poke B)holding block while waiting for poke. C) reacting to animation of the poke. D) inputting punish.

I think the confusion is coming from each side not understanding what the other means. It's completely possible to react to the animation of a poke and counter poke it if you're waiting for it, but it's not possible to do It if you're waiting for something else such as a grab or a block string.

Well I hope that clears something up.

@MITDJT
@RM AtK!
@xarakamaka
@GGA 16 Bit
@GGA Dizzy
@coolwhip
@anybody who cares
 
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KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Also I think the SF4 reference is a little off, there is a fairly nice buffer system that will let you get out punishes with consistency. The lack of one in MK9, combined with the fact that you have to hold and release a button, is a crucial point of reference here. There is probably a reason these guys, even having played at the highest level for years, can't do it consistently.
 

Biggs

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Also I think the SF4 reference is a little off, there is a fairly nice buffer system that will let you get out punishes with consistency. The lack of one in MK9, combined with the fact that you have to hold and release a button, is a crucial point of reference here. There is probably a reason these guys, even having played at the highest level for years, can't do it consistently.
I punish -3 moves with 3 frame normals consistently, you dont need a reversal window to do such
 
Also I think the SF4 reference is a little off, there is a fairly nice buffer system that will let you get out punishes with consistency. The lack of one in MK9, combined with the fact that you have to hold and release a button, is a crucial point of reference here. There is probably a reason these guys, even having played at the highest level for years, can't do it consistently.
But holding back to block still requires u to let go of it. Same concept, different button.
 
LOL surprised at you mustard . next tournament ill smash ur pad and see how you do like i had to play . i told u and the audience through my games my dpad was pushed in and buttons were sticky . why do you think i chose baraka and sheeva and kl . did i chose my mains? , no . you took it the wrong way . someone said "uk vs usa weve seen this before and know how it ends" , i said that wasnt me and chris . yeh PHOSFERRAX WON i told him before too and u my pad was fuked from train lol. i didmt even chose scarlett smoke or cage because i was saving them for that evo! ! didnt want anyone seeing my tricks pre hand . phosferrax i really like as a person and played him lots before that tourny and he'll admit he knows id usually destroy him even with sheeva . hence why he said before game " please dont humiliate me with sheeva" , and i said dont worry my pads fuked im just gna mess about amyway . you really think id even chose kang vs cyrax????? your a fool . i had some respect for you before this what you wrote . both you and your bro stirring stuff . again I WENT to tourny chose baraka and sheeva and kl vs his reptile. dont spout things making out the circumstances were fair lmao . you really think if i had perfect pad with my mains youd destroy me? , hilarious . you represented and failed . didnt even make it out of pools loooooooool . you have no idea how far we came compared to what you were then . how can you even post this after i said to you in person about pad. then you write this lmao . such a joke you came second with your main with working pad vs phosferrax . and you call me out about coming 3rd cos of it when this "online warrior " beat your brother 3-0 under my circumstance after playing 20minutes on lan for first time with that pad . you lost all my respect from this . didnt even put down the whole story. lol ur a joke mate . if we went usa we'd either win or top 3 easy lol.
You're good bro, but saying you will place top 3 at Evo or win is a little over confident. Actually extremely over confident. How do you expect to get past me, PL, the gga guys, the Vegas guys, REO, Sonic fox, and all the other top players? You try to make fun of somebody for not making it out of pools at Evo, but the competition is so high it's a good possibility that you wouldn't make it out of pools if you went to any MK9 major, let alone Evo the biggest tournament
 
He's right though.

What you're saying is similar to my whole smashing my head open at EVO, WHAT IF I didn't?... Doesn't matter , that's not how it went, just something gotta hold.

You said about how much you'd gone forward before, but when I hopped on I quickly racked up the wins with a few adjustments.

Mk9 is dead here, just wait for MKX. That'll be the time. Chill.
the heck u talkin lol racked up the wins im glad i had a witness with me. we did my kano vs rain . cage kl and lou vs rain that was it. and we said how bad you poke game was wen u left . played like 3 or 4 in koth. actually annoyed me you lie like that to be fair ill respond to rest tomoz :/ , respect lost unless you geniuely believe that. good thing chris was with me to see thats a lie lol. think your sonya only character id find tricky tbh deffo not kl cage rain. thing is foxy you dont realise either how high we went you basing one game kano one game cage one liu and won same . looks like we'll have to play :) , rack up the wins such bull lolol only person i met beat me more games when we played few games was foreverking but got away with so much spins etc when shudnt have i hate wen ppl lie i never do if i lose ill say it but lieing to make urself look gud to ur fans when u didnt hit confirm ur d3s either etc is just annoying dude rly annoyin
 
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You're good bro, but saying you will place top 3 at Evo or win is a little over confident. Actually extremely over confident. How do you expect to get past me, PL, the gga guys, the Vegas guys, REO, Sonic fox, and all the other top players? You try to make fun of somebody for not making it out of pools at Evo, but the competition is so high it's a good possibility that you wouldn't make it out of pools if you went to any MK9 major, let alone Evo the biggest tournament
you do realise i played sonic a while back when wasnt as good as now and did fine .im not losing ft3 kl vs cage to anyome to be fair. and ill say from rooftops i aint losing to any kabal in the world thats one of my fav match ups lol . we played yonks ago too dont u remember keep spinning me after ex fbs and i try f3 ur spin kept hitting? kept saying why you keep doing that and getting away with itlol was long time ago though. just dont see kl or kabal as threat only sonya really to be fair is the mu id hate
 
havi
He's right though.

What you're saying is similar to my whole smashing my head open at EVO, WHAT IF I didn't?... Doesn't matter , that's not how it went, just something gotta hold.

You said about how much you'd gone forward before, but when I hopped on I quickly racked up the wins with a few adjustments.

Mk9 is dead here, just wait for MKX. That'll be the time. Chill.
havin a pad that dont work is bit different seeing as you can t move or combo properly lots of time
 
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You're confusing it, re-read it 16 bit is right, you gotta have an idea that d1 is coming or you'll never punish it, or just get chewed up by repeated f3s from a character like cage.
read previous quotes he said . im not saying im superman and im standing and i see his d3 in slow motion then duck block it. i dont mean that by reaction but whether your waiting for a string or poke u see the move or poke then REACT to the situation. im saying you react after not before..... he said the hit/block on d3 is so fast you Cant react in time , but we do it every poke we do get into plus or minus and continue accordingly. if you bothered to play me long set like we used when i was a noob then wouldve been easier but you always ignored and refused to play . play 4 games like 2 each and say rack up the wins with adjustments that never happened . and one game playin kano lol your the one who used to say usa mk9 was bad poke game before u went evo . now changed your tune . going off on bit of rant but just wish you would witness what we got too with fundamental level . big head or whatever ppl say to me but your the one screamed ud win evo before ya left cos we both know u cudve under different circumstance . i geniuely believe i cud on my best day but anythin can happen in tourny its only ft3
 
You're confusing it, re-read it 16 bit is right, you gotta have an idea that d1 is coming or you'll never punish it, or just get chewed up by repeated f3s from a character like cage.
yeh ok i see what saying so its a reaction seeing as you react to the situation . if im crossed over for example and i punish eg ex np i dont read he was going to cross me over i react to it at that time . yeh i get theres reads but i dnt always read i react to what the opponent did but get some of what hes tryin to say
 

Insuperable

My mom tells me I'm pretty
@xarakamaka
Honestly, the way you type reminds me of one of those 4chan reposts.
"What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Qaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words."
 

Hades

Noob
Just got through all 15 pages of this and all i have to say is i almost had a bloody brain aneurysm. I could probably compare it to watching a group neanderthols throw rocks at a wall and wonder why it isn't talking back. I mean seriously can people read and take in information? Or do some people just read a wall of text and shape what they think was said straight into their probably disconnected brain stem?

Anyway. I waded through 15 pages of this and i should have given up at the 1st. Have a good day everyone and as @trustinme would say enjoy yourselves!
 

The_REAL_xVAPORx

smoke reset bot
16 bit and dizzy had it right, pokes animations are too fast and recover far too quickly to be able punish them on the fly. pokes are only punished on reads or by accident occasionally, no one has the ability to react that fast. and @xarakamaka I figured you would have learned your lesson by now after trying this same thing in a thread on MKU a while back. then MyGod came in and blew you up for having poor fundamentals or something along the lines of it. you've been calling yourself the best for a loooooong time now, yet no one else seems to thinks so. aside from maybe your sparring partner, and im gonna guess you think he is the best with his respective characters.... lol
 

A F0xy Grampa

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the heck u talkin lol racked up the wins im glad i had a witness with me. we did my kano vs rain . cage kl and lou vs rain that was it. and we said how bad you poke game was wen u left . played like 3 or 4 in koth. actually annoyed me you lie like that to be fair ill respond to rest tomoz :/ , respect lost unless you geniuely believe that. good thing chris was with me to see thats a lie lol. think your sonya only character id find tricky tbh deffo not kl cage rain. thing is foxy you dont realise either how high we went you basing one game kano one game cage one liu and won same . looks like we'll have to play :) , rack up the wins such bull lolol only person i met beat me more games when we played few games was foreverking but got away with so much spins etc when shudnt have i hate wen ppl lie i never do if i lose ill say it but lieing to make urself look gud to ur fans when u didnt hit confirm ur d3s either etc is just annoying dude rly annoyin
Actually I'm talking your greatest weakness, bird Lao.

Regardless, being good in mk9 is such a null skill now, when the competition fades away of course you're going to look better.

Like I said wait for MKX, your understanding of the poke game will be really far behind because you missed out on injustice and the mechanics that both injustice an MKX will share.

Mk9s poke game is pretty straight forward with minimal options, it doesn't take a lot to understand it.
 
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Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
16 bit and dizzy had it right, pokes animations are too fast and recover far too quickly to be able punish them on the fly. pokes are only punished on reads or by accident occasionally, no one has the ability to react that fast. and @xarakamaka I figured you would have learned your lesson by now after trying this same thing in a thread on MKU a while back. then MyGod came in and blew you up for having poor fundamentals or something along the lines of it. you've been calling yourself the best for a loooooong time now, yet no one else seems to thinks so. aside from maybe your sparring partner, and im gonna guess you think he is the best with his respective characters.... lol
Dude... I'm gonna tell you this one time, from the bottom of my heart, there is nothing for you here.... run... just run. You can watch the train wreck, just don't participate.