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Match-up Discussion Smoke mu chart mk9

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Kitana's d+1 has virtually no block stun.
You cannot see that you blocked a d+1 and then punish it.
It's not as simple as the frame data being -15.
Is there a big difference in Kitana's D1 being blocked point blank and at max range?
Is max range blocked D1+Ass Away a safe or unsafe option since not everyone has Mileena or Reptile long D4 poke back?
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
This guy is throwing out terms he doesn't understand and claiming he does the impossible.

You say you want tutorials and help from top players but guys like Dizzy have spent years trying to explain how the game works. Very few listen.

A simple example is that the block stun from a low poke is so fast no one can see that they blocked a low poke and then punish. They're doing it on read. That is why the top guys don't do it every time.
@GGA Dizzy this dizzy explain please this is not true to our knowledge
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
@GGA Dizzy this dizzy explain please this is not true to our knowledge
Not sure what you mean. This just goes back to your claim that any poke you block, you will do the perfect counter poke. Like I said if you think thats actually happening, i dont feel like a discussion is possible.
 
This is what happens when fools try to discuss matchups 4 years after a game is out.
Aye a game ain't fleshed out after 4 yrs :p, actually there is no set time on when they are fleshed out tbh. SF2 turbo community took hella yrs to recognize that t hawk was a good character.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
Not sure what you mean. This just goes back to your claim that any poke you block, you will do the perfect counter poke. Like I said if you think thats actually happening, i dont feel like a discussion is possible.
its not hard dizzy 16 bit says : A simple example is that the block stun from a low poke is so fast no one can see that they blocked a low poke and then punish. They're doing it on read. That is why the top guys don't do it every time.



so you think that you cant react to d3s and counter with f3 everytime? , thats what he's saying..... yes or no?
 

TomlulsBrady

Kombatant
DJT and I are two of the best as well lmao, ur point?
But 16bit claim makes perfect sense, honestly, when you take into account of the duration frames of a d1 plus the recovery, it has to be punished by a read. For example its way easier for someone to punish a blocked KL low hat witch is -12 than a blocked d1 which is -15 or w/e because low hat takes over 3 times longer to hit and twice as long to recover from first using the move so you have a lot more time to react to it properly. 16bit claims make the most sense imo.
 
But 16bit claim makes perfect sense, honestly, when you take into account of the duration frames of a d1 plus the recovery it has to be punished by a read. For example its way easier for someone to punish a blocked KL low hat witch is -12 than a blocked d1 which is -15 or w/e because low hat takes over 3 times longer to hit and twice as long to recover from first using the move so you have a lot more time to react to it properly. 16bit claims make the most sense imo.
But that same claim doesn't make sense to me, DJT, and etc. REO agrees with my claim as well, so this is going to have to be discussed because something is missing with this discussion. Also u aren't "reading" after u block something to punish it. U are reacting and punishing accordingly. When someone makes a "read" that is essentially an educated guess that from previous info gathered in a match the player responds with something that will work to counter what they want to. Reads dnt always work cuz u are guessing still, punishes always work unless u mess up or a factor in the situation is changed.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
what are you talking about! , he saying you cant react but if you have 6frames of active frames then the -13 doesnt count untill the active frames are finished so you can start reacting when the active frames are on! ofc d3s and d1s are reactable lol this is so dumb you guys think this . mit djt and me n chris are right . its not on a read ! we hit confirm everything!
But 16bit claim makes perfect sense, honestly, when you take into account of the duration frames of a d1 plus the recovery, it has to be punished by a read. For example its way easier for someone to punish a blocked KL low hat witch is -12 than a blocked d1 which is -15 or w/e because low hat takes over 3 times longer to hit and twice as long to recover from first using the move so you have a lot more time to react to it properly. 16bit claims make the most sense imo.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
@GGA 16 Bit @GGA Dizzy there is some discrepancy with this situation haha, this seriously needs to be discussed because some agreeing with u guys and others aren't. This is the first time I have heard this so I am still like ???
Well, if you feel like testing it, it will be easier to see my point. Have your bro do Kitana's f21 and you block it, then have Denzell mix up doing either d1 xx cutter vs. 21. Then have yourself interrupt Kitana's d1 xx cutter, with Liu b3. Try to do this and never get hit by the 21. This is just a basic example, but in my opinion you cannot process in time which one he did, to determine whether you should let go of block after the first hit and interrupt the cutter, or continue blocking (as it was a 21). This is what I mean by you are counter poking on read.
 

Vagrant

Champion
That is a punish tho, I am not getting what u are saying. If I block something that is punishable and counter, that is a punish. It is waiting, reacting, then punishing. Maybe I am not getting what u are saying. Give me an example

Looking for something isn't reaction.

The "looking for" part negates it being able to be considered a reaction.

I consider a reaction, something that you aren't expecting, see it, and react to it.

Like scorp kit, if Im inputting hellfire, she does air ass and I stop inputting hellfire and anti air this move that I wasn't expecting, that is a reaction.
 
Looking for something isn't reaction.

The "looking for" part negates it being able to be considered a reaction.

I consider a reaction, something that you aren't expecting, see it, and react to it.

Like scorp kit, if Im inputting hellfire, she does air ass and I stop inputting hellfire and anti air this move that I wasn't expecting, that is a reaction.
Meh i dnt think so. A read is a guess, a reaction is something where u know what to do after. So if I block a poke, I am reacting not making a read.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
whet
Looking for something isn't reaction.

The "looking for" part negates it being able to be considered a reaction.

I consider a reaction, something that you aren't expecting, see it, and react to it.

Like scorp kit, if Im inputting hellfire, she does air ass and I stop inputting hellfire and anti air this move that I wasn't expecting, that is a reaction.
where do these people come from lmao
 
Well, if you feel like testing it, it will be easier to see my point. Have your bro do Kitana's f21 and you block it, then have Denzell mix up doing either d1 xx cutter vs. 21. Then have yourself interrupt Kitana's d1 xx cutter, with Liu b3. Try to do this and never get hit by the 21. This is just a basic example, but in my opinion you cannot process in time which one he did, to determine whether you should let go of block after the first hit and interrupt the cutter, or continue blocking (as it was a 21). This is what I mean by you are counter poking on read.
wait a second, f2,1 is minus so u can always counter poke or choose to see if she tries to jump or etc. Anything that is minus on pressure and can't be special cancelled is able to be counterpoked. Like when kabal does f4 and dash cancels u are able to poke or wait to see if does ex dash after. The read comes in when u make that decision. Something punishable is something u react to. No read is needed to be made. Also I have used that vs DJT before, if I try and go for anything other than a jump or just blocking after f2,1 he counters. Nobody punishes all pokes because we are humans, we dnt have perfect reactions.