What's new

Match-up Discussion Smoke mu chart mk9

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
I talked to DJT, he said it is a read in a way where u are waiting for a poke to come out, but a reaction after you block it and go for a punish and etc. So pretty much it is a combination of a read and reaction. That makes sense.
I agree with this. A lot of what people call reacting in any fighting games is more so that the opponent was looking for it. It's the same in Injustice with dashing in vs jumping in. You can be ready to blow up a dash when you see it, but you won't be ready for the jump in unless your option can cover broke *cough cough...Brokestroke. :)
 
I agree with this. A lot of what people call reacting in any fighting games is more so that the opponent was looking for it. It's the same in Injustice with dashing in vs jumping in. You can be ready to blow up a dash when you see it, but you won't be ready for the jump in unless your option can cover broke *cough cough...Brokestroke. :)
i understand ur opinion . someone u never heard of standing up about frame data. but tbh im tired of the debate . if i won 3-0 vs dizzy in cage mirror would you even then listen to what im saying? , no prob not . you see dizzy and waffles as the worlds best with their characters and you couldnt understand anyone being better to what you know . i rly dont care if i sound arrogant . you actually have no idea what and how good my fundamentals with cage are. Again sound like an over confident idiot in your eyes . its impossible to have better fundamentals. well how wrong you could be. im not saying im better at every match up. eg cage vs kenshi im sure its possible hes a lot better in this mu but if it came down to cage mirror/liu vs his cage where up close combat is esseential then thats another story. he better not even risk not confirming his d3s into f3s like a lot of matches he does. if u want me to postcexamples and times in the matches then honestly i will . and if i didnt start this thread then they wudnt have even been discussing about poke fundamentals . dizzy and 16bit are saying the hit/block is so fast on pokes that u don't have time to react. im not talking about poke cancels into specials or anything like that im talking basic which i said waffles d3 on block into b23. can you even explain this as no one HAS. MK9 is dead an mkx is there future from this point. just theres not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that id lose in cage mirror match due to all the evidence ive accumilated. he might be able to adjust but he'd better be on his game and confirm every poke in liu/cage mirror but i dont feel hes even played the mus at highest level. ive given frames as evidence on my part and comments like yours just justify my defense . no one can answer my main questions. im not saying id 100% beat example pig of the hut who is a solid kenshi as up close fundamentals arent as important as like cage vs cage but more about fundamentals ,spacing game etc. i see dizzy and 16points ofc about the d1 cancelled into specials but if you dont hitconfirm ur d3 vs me then you will in major trouble. all im saying is a lot of tournament players arent consistemt in there poking game and needs to be up'd . im the one providing evidence / willing to post semi recent links to provide these facts . @MITDJT you can like the comments opposed to me but you too cant even supply me with reasons to my questions . its extremly irritating as you think im a no body and had 2 pms from ppl saying dont even bother . if your against usa then theres no point even debating as you wont even listen. i think his spacing and punishing game is good but how DARE i comment on his up close game?. have more reasonings and examples to your replies in the future and dont dismiss mr as a random noob . ive probably played more than anyone u met . yes dnt care if im a sad no it all. but again dont disregard what im saying . listen to what im saying please and find acceptable argument in return. mit isnt and arent used to playing people with on point up close poke game and your bro is a good player yes but doesnt mean you know everything . not anyone i wouldnt 100 dollars money match ft5 on lan . not because im a cocky ass hole but because im confident. bit drunk cba to re read for typos
 

KayyKnow

Young, Black and handsome
i understand ur opinion . someone u never heard of standing up about frame data. but tbh im tired of the debate . if i won 3-0 vs dizzy in cage mirror would you even then listen to what im saying? , no prob not . you see dizzy and waffles as the worlds best with their characters and you couldnt understand anyone being better to what you know . i rly dont care if i sound arrogant . you actually have no idea what and how good my fundamentals with cage are. Again sound like an over confident idiot in your eyes . its impossible to have better fundamentals. well how wrong you could be. im not saying im better at every match up. eg cage vs kenshi im sure its possible hes a lot better in this mu but if it came down to cage mirror/liu vs his cage where up close combat is esseential then thats another story. he better not even risk not confirming his d3s into f3s like a lot of matches he does. if u want me to postcexamples and times in the matches then honestly i will . and if i didnt start this thread then they wudnt have even been discussing about poke fundamentals . dizzy and 16bit are saying the hit/block is so fast on pokes that u don't have time to react. im not talking about poke cancels into specials or anything like that im talking basic which i said waffles d3 on block into b23. can you even explain this as no one HAS. MK9 is dead an mkx is there future from this point. just theres not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that id lose in cage mirror match due to all the evidence ive accumilated. he might be able to adjust but he'd better be on his game and confirm every poke in liu/cage mirror but i dont feel hes even played the mus at highest level. ive given frames as evidence on my part and comments like yours just justify my defense . no one can answer my main questions. im not saying id 100% beat example pig of the hut who is a solid kenshi as up close fundamentals arent as important as like cage vs cage but more about fundamentals ,spacing game etc. i see dizzy and 16points ofc about the d1 cancelled into specials but if you dont hitconfirm ur d3 vs me then you will in major trouble. all im saying is a lot of tournament players arent consistemt in there poking game and needs to be up'd . im the one providing evidence / willing to post semi recent links to provide these facts . @MITDJT you can like the comments opposed to me but you too cant even supply me with reasons to my questions . its extremly irritating as you think im a no body and had 2 pms from ppl saying dont even bother . if your against usa then theres no point even debating as you wont even listen. i think his spacing and punishing game is good but how DARE i comment on his up close game?. have more reasonings and examples to your replies in the future and dont dismiss mr as a random noob . ive probably played more than anyone u met . yes dnt care if im a sad no it all. but again dont disregard what im saying . listen to what im saying please and find acceptable argument in return. mit isnt and arent used to playing people with on point up close poke game and your bro is a good player yes but doesnt mean you know everything . not anyone i wouldnt 100 dollars money match ft5 on lan . not because im a cocky ass hole but because im confident. bit drunk cba to re read for typos
too long didnt read, but i will say discussing Smoke with TheTruth is a losing battle. He is one of the best Smokes, he plays at GGA. I think Truth won Final Round if im not mistaken
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Dammit man, I'm going to say it a third time now.

POST A SET OF YOU PLAYING WHOEVER OFFLINE AT A HIGH LEVEL SHOWING YOU PUNISH THESE POKES INSTANTLY 95% OF THE TIME YOU BLOCK THEM.

If you can't post the video you're full of it. If you can then everyone will apologize and instantly respect you. It's that simple.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
too long didnt read, but i will say discussing Smoke with TheTruth is a losing battle. He is one of the best Smokes, he plays at GGA. I think Truth won Final Round if im not mistaken
You're thinking of Wafflez. That's not him. I'm not even sure if Truth plays Smoke at all actually.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
i understand ur opinion . someone u never heard of standing up about frame data. but tbh im tired of the debate . if i won 3-0 vs dizzy in cage mirror would you even then listen to what im saying? , no prob not . you see dizzy and waffles as the worlds best with their characters and you couldnt understand anyone being better to what you know . i rly dont care if i sound arrogant . you actually have no idea what and how good my fundamentals with cage are. Again sound like an over confident idiot in your eyes . its impossible to have better fundamentals. well how wrong you could be. im not saying im better at every match up. eg cage vs kenshi im sure its possible hes a lot better in this mu but if it came down to cage mirror/liu vs his cage where up close combat is esseential then thats another story. he better not even risk not confirming his d3s into f3s like a lot of matches he does. if u want me to postcexamples and times in the matches then honestly i will . and if i didnt start this thread then they wudnt have even been discussing about poke fundamentals . dizzy and 16bit are saying the hit/block is so fast on pokes that u don't have time to react. im not talking about poke cancels into specials or anything like that im talking basic which i said waffles d3 on block into b23. can you even explain this as no one HAS. MK9 is dead an mkx is there future from this point. just theres not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that id lose in cage mirror match due to all the evidence ive accumilated. he might be able to adjust but he'd better be on his game and confirm every poke in liu/cage mirror but i dont feel hes even played the mus at highest level. ive given frames as evidence on my part and comments like yours just justify my defense . no one can answer my main questions. im not saying id 100% beat example pig of the hut who is a solid kenshi as up close fundamentals arent as important as like cage vs cage but more about fundamentals ,spacing game etc. i see dizzy and 16points ofc about the d1 cancelled into specials but if you dont hitconfirm ur d3 vs me then you will in major trouble. all im saying is a lot of tournament players arent consistemt in there poking game and needs to be up'd . im the one providing evidence / willing to post semi recent links to provide these facts . @MITDJT you can like the comments opposed to me but you too cant even supply me with reasons to my questions . its extremly irritating as you think im a no body and had 2 pms from ppl saying dont even bother . if your against usa then theres no point even debating as you wont even listen. i think his spacing and punishing game is good but how DARE i comment on his up close game?. have more reasonings and examples to your replies in the future and dont dismiss mr as a random noob . ive probably played more than anyone u met . yes dnt care if im a sad no it all. but again dont disregard what im saying . listen to what im saying please and find acceptable argument in return. mit isnt and arent used to playing people with on point up close poke game and your bro is a good player yes but doesnt mean you know everything . not anyone i wouldnt 100 dollars money match ft5 on lan . not because im a cocky ass hole but because im confident. bit drunk cba to re read for typos
xarakamaka pls
 
yes im very intimidated of gga . only one i not seen lot of is han to be fair on him to comment. but u being scared or thinking gga is the best just prooves a point to me dude . refer to previous comments and legitimate answer lol. back ur shizzle up with maths or examples . i already said im willing/have given examples or links to vids..... lets uppercut bird lao and call him a god . yeh cos thats not silly to uppercut bird lao constantly lol. shows the kinda level.
too long didnt read, but i will say discussing Smoke with TheTruth is a losing battle. He is one of the best Smokes, he plays at GGA. I think Truth won Final Round if im not mistaken
 
da
Dammit man, I'm going to say it a third time now.

POST A SET OF YOU PLAYING WHOEVER OFFLINE AT A HIGH LEVEL SHOWING YOU PUNISH THESE POKES INSTANTLY 95% OF THE TIME YOU BLOCK THEM.

If you can't post the video you're full of it. If you can then everyone will apologize and instantly respect you. It's that simple.
damit man back . this 3rd time i said in this thread im travelling and we are going to meet and record but not untill march. i think at this point even if played 100% perfect id still get haters now lol. no one listens online forum unless won usa tourny or close to it. if i was talking face to face then thryd probably listen lol
 

coolwhip

Noob
I talked to DJT, he said it is a read in a way where u are waiting for a poke to come out, but a reaction after you block it and go for a punish and etc. So pretty much it is a combination of a read and reaction. That makes sense.
Yes, that. Speaking for myself, that's what I've been saying.

Also to whoever made the thread, please, pick Kung Lao, and punish Kitana's d1 every time with spin. I mean, if you're to be believed, this is entirely possible, and you should do it every time, right?
 
Last edited:
I agree with the stuff @coolwhip has been saying @MITDJT that is how I have been playing the game. A read isn't necessarily throwing out a yolo DP, it can be a soft read like this situation. Not all situations are pure read vs pure reaction as you know. As far as kitanas d1 being punishable on reaction, of course. On that note 16 bit hasnt used raw D1 up close against me (on purpose at least) in 2-3 years lol. I am speaking about d1 cutter mixed up with various other things.

I personally feel like you are incorporating reads more often then you even realize in your counterpoke game and not realizing it, and that is where the discrepancy in our discussion is happening. If you feel that's not true though, I don't think we can do anything besides disagree. All I have is my experience and opinion on the matter and I feel as though this theory of how counterpoking works that I have developed sometime in 2012 has carried me far in the game's life. But in the end, all it is, is a theory. I believe this theory is one of the reasons I have excelled in the Kitana match as well.
I feel like a lot of extremely hard hitconfirmable moves are also partly hitconfirmed on read. Which is why you often see top players still try to convert into a launcher even though their normal was actually blocked.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
i understand ur opinion . someone u never heard of standing up about frame data. but tbh im tired of the debate . if i won 3-0 vs dizzy in cage mirror would you even then listen to what im saying? , no prob not . you see dizzy and waffles as the worlds best with their characters and you couldnt understand anyone being better to what you know . i rly dont care if i sound arrogant . you actually have no idea what and how good my fundamentals with cage are. Again sound like an over confident idiot in your eyes . its impossible to have better fundamentals. well how wrong you could be. im not saying im better at every match up. eg cage vs kenshi im sure its possible hes a lot better in this mu but if it came down to cage mirror/liu vs his cage where up close combat is esseential then thats another story. he better not even risk not confirming his d3s into f3s like a lot of matches he does. if u want me to postcexamples and times in the matches then honestly i will . and if i didnt start this thread then they wudnt have even been discussing about poke fundamentals . dizzy and 16bit are saying the hit/block is so fast on pokes that u don't have time to react. im not talking about poke cancels into specials or anything like that im talking basic which i said waffles d3 on block into b23. can you even explain this as no one HAS. MK9 is dead an mkx is there future from this point. just theres not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that id lose in cage mirror match due to all the evidence ive accumilated. he might be able to adjust but he'd better be on his game and confirm every poke in liu/cage mirror but i dont feel hes even played the mus at highest level. ive given frames as evidence on my part and comments like yours just justify my defense . no one can answer my main questions. im not saying id 100% beat example pig of the hut who is a solid kenshi as up close fundamentals arent as important as like cage vs cage but more about fundamentals ,spacing game etc. i see dizzy and 16points ofc about the d1 cancelled into specials but if you dont hitconfirm ur d3 vs me then you will in major trouble. all im saying is a lot of tournament players arent consistemt in there poking game and needs to be up'd . im the one providing evidence / willing to post semi recent links to provide these facts . @MITDJT you can like the comments opposed to me but you too cant even supply me with reasons to my questions . its extremly irritating as you think im a no body and had 2 pms from ppl saying dont even bother . if your against usa then theres no point even debating as you wont even listen. i think his spacing and punishing game is good but how DARE i comment on his up close game?. have more reasonings and examples to your replies in the future and dont dismiss mr as a random noob . ive probably played more than anyone u met . yes dnt care if im a sad no it all. but again dont disregard what im saying . listen to what im saying please and find acceptable argument in return. mit isnt and arent used to playing people with on point up close poke game and your bro is a good player yes but doesnt mean you know everything . not anyone i wouldnt 100 dollars money match ft5 on lan . not because im a cocky ass hole but because im confident. bit drunk cba to re read for typos
 

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Premium Supporter
The whole point was a response to this guy bragging about how he punishes d+1~cutter and being critical of players on youtube for never punishing it consistently.

I'll just say it. The best in the world at doing it, one of the only players that can consistently beat me without fucking Kenshi, is explaining how it works and being told he's dumb. Meanwhile everyone else has been getting lit up by my d+1~cutter game for years.
Ok i agree dizzy is the top of the list in counter pokes n punishing things. But without only ft2 tourney matches can you say reo or Detroit etc have never even in long casual sets been able to punish you a lot n change game plans or let alone beat you in a long set? I'm just wondering because u know you're a better player than just d1ing all the time. Im just curious.i also agree some of these statements are out of line so I'm on your side about that. There shouldn't be any discrediting of these ppls accomplishments. Especially based on when ppl are letting said ppl. do these things n not punished it
 
Last edited:
Yes, that. Speaking for myself, that's what I've been saying.

Also to whoever made the thread, please, pick Kung Lao, and punish Kitana's d1 every time with spin. I mean, if you're to be believed, this is entirely possible, and you should do it every time, right?
ive seen d3 punished by spin lol . and depends on distance . risky stuff. ill pick cage and punish yeh. you guys seem obssessed about kitana. lets talk about cage mirror as most impotant match for poke game and fundamemtals. EVERYTIME will punish @coolwhip just youve never seen a player doing it because you havent got a cage that does it. and @MITDJT you like all the oppossing commemts end of day you agreed with me at start. wish i was rich and come play you . change your perspective tbh. still no reply for why ppl dont hit confirm d3s either lol. shows how dumb you guys are. i asked like ten times now . NOT ONE ANSWER. such jokes tbh you keep avoiding it because there isnt an answer! so yes all of you keep avoiding it . its easier that way lol
 
I feel like a lot of extremely hard hitconfirmable moves are also partly hitconfirmed on read. Which is why you often see top players still try to convert into a launcher even though their normal was actually blocked.
THANK YOU for replying to my question your the first . but thats what im saying. thats wrong and why im confused with how people play. its extremely important to hit confirm. if i block your d3 and you continue to your main string . i will launch THEM into a combo. thats what im saying. but no one seems do consistantly do it. :)
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
ive seen d3 punished by spin lol . and depends on distance . risky stuff. ill pick cage and punish yeh. you guys seem obssessed about kitana. lets talk about cage mirror as most impotant match for poke game and fundamemtals. EVERYTIME will punish @coolwhip just youve never seen a player doing it because you havent got a cage that does it. and @MITDJT you like all the oppossing commemts end of day you agreed with me at start. wish i was rich and come play you . change your perspective tbh. still no reply for why ppl dont hit confirm d3s either lol. shows how dumb you guys are. i asked like ten times now . NOT ONE ANSWER. such jokes tbh you keep avoiding it because there isnt an answer! so yes all of you keep avoiding it . its easier that way lol
Both Curbo and CD Jr punished pokes pretty consistently.