Match-up Discussion Smoke Match-Up Discussion Thread (2012 Post-EVO Update)

[Immortal]

Since all of a sudden Smoke MU discussion is all the rage, here is my chart as a refresher course in the Smoke MU world.

5-5 vs Kenshi

It's more likely 4,5 - 5,5 or 4-6 Kenshi and with Skarlet its for sure 4-6 or even 3,5-6,5.

 

[Qwark28]

The players Zaf mentions do come to USA Majors and all the events i listed, they're some of the greatest USA scene/tourney supporters because they're determination to do well and love for the game however from my recollection Jer placed top 8 at 2012 wb and thats been the only top 8 placing from a Canadian player

Am i missing something or somebody?

As for foxy his head was perfectly fine during casuals for the first day or two before the tourney and the results remained the same for him, glue, ketchup, mustard

Tough titty but facts are facts.

Would anyone in their right mind say foxy is not a top player? No, we all would say he is a top player and if he lived here id be a perennial top 8 placer w the other top mk players. One guy imo proved he could and it was foxy

But for 2 years i had to hear sub zero is 5-5 w csz and rain is 5-5 w kenshi and that shit went out the window very quick

so you believe that 3 ppl watching their friend almost die had no effect on their gameplay and mental health at the moment? those 1-2 days before could simply be used as warmup and matchup experience considering there are no kabals in the UK.

i agree with the insane MU claims but that is exactly my point, just because some matchup numbers might seem straight out of the looney house does not mean the player is not good and that the numbers are not valid, Metzos kept telling everyone ermac was 5-5 with lao but nobody believed him until pboard/moe almost eliminated FK with half life punishes to teleports.

 

[Immortal]

Erm no, "almost eliminated" isn't the same as eliminated.

Nobody cares for "almost". You win or you lose.

 

[RiBBz22]

only # i disagree w is skarlet

I think it is 4-6 skarlet favor

Yeah, I will admit I have limited Skarlet exp. I played Birdsongs/Red Raptor/Forever King for most of my exp. I don't think that it being even is inconceivable. The thing that gives Smoke the most problems in the MU is all DAT ARMOR on her long reaching specials.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

so you believe that 3 ppl watching their friend almost die had no effect on their gameplay and mental health at the moment? those 1-2 days before could simply be used as warmup and matchup experience considering there are no kabals in the UK.

i agree with the insane MU claims but that is exactly my point, just because some matchup numbers might seem straight out of the looney house does not mean the player is not good and that the numbers are not valid, Metzos kept telling everyone ermac was 5-5 with lao but nobody believed him until pboard/moe almost eliminated FK with half life punishes to teleports.

I dont play kabal

I play Kenshi Mileena Csz at the time

Last time i check they have a cyrax, so whats the excuse there? Again im talking pre tourney/pre incident

and btw metzos also said sonya and ermac 5-5...or ermac wins so are we still playing this metzos game?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

until pboard/moe almost eliminated FK with half life punishes to teleports.

Ive never been to a tourney, seen a football game, world series game 7, miss teen america beauty pagent where "But Ref/community I ALMOST BEAT HIM" mattered

 

[RiBBz22]

It's more likely 4,5 - 5,5 or 4-6 Kenshi and with Skarlet its for sure 4-6 or even 3,5-6,5.

I dunno I played sets against Pig and Blind Man and the MU always felt very even to me.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Yeah, I will admit I have limited Skarlet exp. I played Birdsongs/Red Raptor/Forever King for most of my exp. I don't think that it being even is inconceivable. The thing that gives Smoke the most problems in the MU is all DAT ARMOR on her long reaching specials.

Yea and to be fair those 3 are no comparrison to EMP Scar's skarlet and honestly Fly's skarlet. I played them all and the top 3 were EMP scar by a mile, fly and probably CD

 

[Qwark28]

I dont play kabal

I play Kenshi Mileena Csz at the time

Last time i check they have a cyrax, so whats the excuse there? Again im talking pre tourney/pre incident

and btw metzos also said sonya and ermac 5-5...or ermac wins so are we still playing this metzos game?

i cant comment because i could only see the few parts of the exhibition that were uploaded to YT

well, didnt mustard beat maxters cyrax convincibly after the incident?

metzos can be right or wrong about a MU or two, youve also said that lao-kenshi was 7-3, tha still proves nothing because both of your MU lists were 70% right after time.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I dunno I played sets against Pig and Blind Man and the MU always felt very even to me.

yea its a very uncomfortable 5-5

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

i cant comment because i could only see the few parts of the exhibition that were uploaded to YT

well, didnt mustard beat maxters cyrax convincibly after the incident?

metzos can be right or wrong about a MU or two, youve also said that lao-kenshi was 7-3, tha still proves nothing because both of your MU lists were 70% right after time.

I also came back and said its 5-5

 

[Qwark28]

I also came back and said its 5-5

same with metzos, the same thing happened when Wound talk to him and again with Death.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

i cant comment because i could only see the few parts of the exhibition that were uploaded to YT

well, didnt mustard beat maxters cyrax convincibly after the incident?

metzos can be right or wrong about a MU or two, youve also said that lao-kenshi was 7-3, tha still proves nothing because both of your MU lists were 70% right after time.

Also qwark this kinda feeds into my point

Metzos said 5-5 cause honestly hes never played a real sonya. If he lived here in america hed play the premier sonyas and see what we all see. Doesnt make him any less of a player that his country doesnt have one but we're just saying "Yo we run this all the time, you might wanna pay attention"

 

[Qwark28]

Ive never been to a tourney, seen a football game, world series game 7, miss teen america beauty pagent where "But Ref/community I ALMOST BEAT HIM" mattered

not the point, point being FK admitted to it being 5-5 and Carlton even went as far as calling it 6-4 ermac

 

[Qwark28]

Also qwark this kinda feeds into my point

Metzos said 5-5 cause honestly hes never played a real sonya. If he lived here in america hed play the premier sonyas and see what we all see. Doesnt make him any less of a player that his country doesnt have one but we're just saying "Yo we run this all the time, you might wanna pay attention"

i understand that, its perfectly respectable and i see your point, you obviously cannot compare real experience to theory fighting. I do believe though that in some cases, years of FG experience and a breakdown of the tools of one character against the tools of another can lead into a valid number, thats what he did and he was wrong in some matchups, which he admitted and corrected and right in the majority of what he wrote.

overall, i do get what youre saying and youre right since the US currently holds the best competition but im just saying there could be other ( maybe more MU sensible) foxies out there

 

[Immortal]

I dunno I played sets against Pig and Blind Man and the MU always felt very even to me.

Wont argue about it since its possible i didnt play vs as good Smoke as u are of Wafflez is + plus i value Pigs opinion, so let it be 5-5.

 

[RiBBz22]

Yea and to be fair those 3 are no comparrison to EMP Scar's skarlet and honestly Fly's skarlet. I played them all and the top 3 were EMP scar by a mile, fly and probably CD

Yeah, I know what you mean. Plus 2 I played were online so you know how that goes with MK...hard to judge anything off that. The one good thing for Smoke is that Skarlet is forced to get in and pressure because his shake eliminates any zoning. Once she is in with her armor and pressure if you learn how to block her strings the right way you can get some monster punishes because Skarlet is not Sonya safe. A lot of her stuff if blocked correctly is super high risk against Smoke.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

not the point, point being FK admitted to it being 5-5 and Carlton even went as far as calling it 6-4 ermac

Carlton calls kenshi lao 6-4 kenshi .........

 

[Qwark28]

Carlton calls kenshi lao 6-4 kenshi .........

thats because hes short and nobody told him to shut up

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

i understand that, its perfectly respectable and i see your point, you obviously cannot compare real experience to theory fighting. I do believe though that in some cases, years of FG experience and a breakdown of the tools of one character against the tools of another can lead into a valid number, thats what he did and he was wrong in some matchups, which he admitted and corrected and right in the majority of what he wrote.

overall, i do get what youre saying and youre right since the US currently holds the best competition but im just saying there could be other ( maybe more MU sensible) foxies out there

yea and dont get me wrong i really respect metzos and foxy and all those guys

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

"BUT my ermac is finalllllly ready now and canada will win mk at Nec. 2013"

Possible , however you're three years too late, no one plays, no one cares anymore and no one will care about any mk 9 results. Post 2013 Evo they do not matter at all

This is the sad reality of the NRS community these days. MK9 should have been a game that lasted at the very least until the next MK game but nobody could support it or keep it afloat.

The same thing will happen with Injustice,. Hell, it already is happening with Injustice. When the next MK/NRS game is released it to will fade into oblivion.

It's a shame. =(



I broke my back... It's spinal.

 

[Qwark28]

This is the sad reality of the NRS community these days. MK9 should have been a game that lasted at the very least until the next MK game but nobody could support it or keep it afloat.

The same thing will happen with Injustice,. Hell, it already is happening with Injustice. When the next MK/NRS game is released it to will fade into oblivion.

It's a shame. =(



I broke my back... It's spinal.

that happens with almost every single game and will continue to happen. every game is just a snack until the next

 

[FrothyOmen]

I'm pretty sure this is the most the MK Community has talked about smoke in TYM history.

 

[Death]

OK, this officially confirms this MU to be 7-3 if Downplay-Death is saying it is. Hold dat MK Community.

Bullshit man. My Sonya mu chart is far from downplaying. The only mu I was probably wrong about was the kenshi one.

zaf

Stop upplaying Ermac lol

 

[YOMI DJT]

ermac walking up and grabbing wont help because smoke can hit him as soon as he sees mac dash up for huge combo punishes.
I still like smoke winning 6-4. hold dat