Skarlet: Banned @ Evo? (All DLC officially banned for Evo 2011)

[ApocaLips]

Holy fuck, THTB, 500 bucks? I would never imagine that it would be this expensive.

Plane ticket, hotel room, food, and entrance fees. Adds up fast.

 

[MrWizard]

Im really not looking at the poll numbers, just reading peoples insights on why she should be or shouldnt be banned.

 

[Sonya Blade]

I'm kinda on the fence about this.

In SSFIV, I play Cammy and her AE changes were huge. Justin Wong said it himself, "If you want to stick with Cammy in AE, then you have to be prepared to pretty much learn a whole new character." Being someone who didn't have access to a local arcade with AE, I was never able to adjust to these changes until the console release of AE came out a couple weeks ago. Capcom gave the community roughly 2 months to get used to AE, and honestly, it's a really bumpy road for me. There are certain things about her (inability to FADC HK Spiral Arrow at a far distance, loss of TKCS also meant loss of damage output) that I'm still getting used to that were once detrimental to my game. However, at the end of the day, I'm not hating Capcom for only giving me 2 months to prepare with this seemingly whole new character. In fact, 2 months is a lot of time if you're really willing to put the work in.

How is this related? Well, Skarlet just came out two days ago, and even though Evo is only about a month away, I still think it's possible to learn the matchup within a month. I mean, think about it. The Skarlet players will only have a month to prepare as the character, and they'll have to learn all the Skarlet vs _____ matchups. Meanwhile, everyone will have to learn how their character matches up with Skarlet. I guess it can go both ways. The biggest con to using Skarlet at Evo is that there's only one major left before Evo to where you can truly test her as your new character, and that's East Coast Throwdown (correct me if I'm wrong). Meanwhile, people have been using their character since the release and they are truly comfortable with them.

This is a rough topic, honestly. Look at CEO's SSFIVAE results. Arturo Sanchez and Mike Ross, two pro players who stuck with their original characters, finished 2nd and 3rd respectively, only falling to the best player in the world, Daigo Umehara using Yun. However, Daigo has been grinding it out with Yun ever since Arcade Edition released. Guys like Marn, Justin Wong, and Floe all switched to Yun or Yang, and none of them made it in the top 3 because they didn't know their matchups. Despite there being SSFIV AE cabinets around in the U.S. before console edition came out, it just wasn't as accessible as it was in Japan. They hould have known that they were at a disadvantage by using new characters at the first major in which they were available.

I don't love the idea of releasing new characters right before the biggest tournament of the year, but I guess that's just how things roll. Personally, I'd say allow her in the tourny.

 

[Dammit_RAB!]

No banning characters, not even Kenshi and Rain if they come out before EVO. Everyone's got equal access to them, considering the patch lets you fight them anyway. And if you haven't got online to play against them, then you've got a local scene, and if you have no local scene then you're assed out either way.

LET IT ROCK




-Dammit_rab

 

[Abudabi]

well if there isn't anything horridly broken about the character, should give it the green light. And thats a huge IF.

Also even if she wasn't banned. I really doubt that the the top contenders will pick her, as opposed to the characters they have been working on all this time in previous tournaments

 

[Kwon]

People only 2 had weeks to try matchups before the Powerup-tournament.

1 month is more than enough.

 

[ApocaLips]

Also, Oni and E.Ryu really haven't been used that much even up to now partly because they're still new. I think even if she's not banned, people are going to stick with the characters that they're comfortable with, especially at such high stakes.

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

I'm kinda on the fence about this.

In SSFIV, I play Cammy and her AE changes were huge. Justin Wong said it himself, "If you want to stick with Cammy in AE, then you have to be prepared to pretty much learn a whole new character." Being someone who didn't have access to a local arcade with AE, I was never able to adjust to these changes until the console release of AE came out a couple weeks ago. Capcom gave the community roughly 2 months to get used to AE, and honestly, it's a really bumpy road for me. There are certain things about her (inability to FADC HK Spiral Arrow at a far distance, loss of TKCS also meant loss of damage output) that I'm still getting used to that were once detrimental to my game. However, at the end of the day, I'm not hating Capcom for only giving me 2 months to prepare with this seemingly whole new character. In fact, 2 months is a lot of time if you're really willing to put the work in.

How is this related? Well, Skarlet just came out two days ago, and even though Evo is only about a month away, I still think it's possible to learn the matchup within a month. I mean, think about it. The Skarlet players will only have a month to prepare as the character, and they'll have to learn all the Skarlet vs _____ matchups. Meanwhile, everyone will have to learn how their character matches up with Skarlet. I guess it can go both ways. The biggest con to using Skarlet at Evo is that there's only one major left before Evo to where you can truly test her as your new character, and that's East Coast Throwdown (correct me if I'm wrong). Meanwhile, people have been using their character since the release and they are truly comfortable with them.

This is a rough topic, honestly. Look at CEO's SSFIVAE results. Arturo Sanchez and Mike Ross, two pro players who stuck with their original characters, finished 2nd and 3rd respectively, only falling to the best player in the world, Daigo Umehara using Yun. However, Daigo has been grinding it out with Yun ever since Arcade Edition released. Guys like Marn, Justin Wong, and Floe all switched to Yun or Yang, and none of them made it in the top 3 because they didn't know their matchups. Despite there being SSFIV AE cabinets around in the U.S. before console edition came out, it just wasn't as accessible as it was in Japan. They hould have known that they were at a disadvantage by using new characters at the first major in which they were available.

I don't love the idea of releasing new characters right before the biggest tournament of the year, but I guess that's just how things roll. Personally, I'd say allow her in the tourny.

Tokido won CEO, not Daigo, and he won using his Akuma, a character that was relatively unchanged from SSF4. Also, FloE, Marn, and Justin harve been playing AE for months since the arcade release which was around the same time as Japan's. So they were on the same level as everyone else.

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

Why do people keep comparing this to AE? It proves nothing.

 

[Geochron]

I don't see why the amount of time matters. Everyone is offered the same amount of time to have the option to learn her, just like everyone has had the same amount of time to have the option to purchase the game. Is it unfair if someone who bought the game last week is paired up against someone who purchased it on release day? And even if there's the possibility that she has glitches, everyone still has had the same amount of time to exploit them or defend against them.

 

[Tim Static]

Why do people keep comparing this to AE? It proves nothing.

no idea. been asking people this but im done.

I dont think Evo 2011 should include any new characters. I forgot about the June 1st statement, and i hope they stick with that.

But Mr Wizard is a good, smart dude. he knows what he is doing and he'll do whatever it takes to make Evo better. Trust in him.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I would have to vote yes on this one, though I see two sides to this:

Skarlet should be banned because she has just recently been released to the United States whereas her debut at the EU region was detained due to technological complications. This will give her a small amount of time to be practiced and analyzed in regards to what will require nerfs or buffs and what will not. If the character was indeed unbalanced (though she does not appear that way, in my opinion), it would likely set a bad example at EVO if she were to be used in such a manner.

Now, on the other side of this...as she IS released on both consoles, unlike Kratos, and our community is growing larger with more members added to it, there ought to be plenty of people able to explore Skarlet in-depth and give us plenty of notices in advance about her at EVO. Also, if the use of her is not publicized well enough, particularly at tournies, the community may never know of what balance issues she may have. Think of this as a scenario similar to characters like Kung Lao, Kano, Smoke, and some other characters that could be added here. They were used at tournies and people were able to take notice of their balance issues at a hands-on approach. Of course we could always just post videos of them from home, but by putting the characters in the spotlight through this method we take a more active role towards breaking them down and voicing our opinions on what may need nerfs or buffs. This is to be based on offline play, not online play like I hear about so often, so the tournies and casuals serve a great purpose in this situation.

So while I would vote yes, I am actually of two minds on the idea of Skarlet being banned. Perchance we will see what is decided soon.

 

[noob Noob]

imo skarlet is fit for competitive play BUT i also understand that side of "her fist shot in competitive play is EVO and if something is found then Mk looks bad".

all that being said, its 1 thing to be on the side of caution "just in case", but ppl are talking.. not as in skarlet MIGHT have something so lets be safe... but that its a FACT the she does have something and ppl are waiting for EVO to use it.

Realistically, what happens to MK and the scene if the worst happens and something with Skarlet ruins evo?

We're up shit creek right? I think its worse than the game looking bad, I think we could just about forget it being at evo again and a lot of people would turn away from the game.

I've no idea if she has that kind of dirt. How could I possibly know when my region hasnt been allowed to download her yet.

I just know that the game and the scene are more important than one character being played at one event. Go nuts after that

 

[Hashbrown_21]

I don't think she should be banned and don't understand the argument about how people need time to learn how to defend her. Don't those using her need time to learn how to use her too? As long as she doesn't have an unfair advantage in coding, then I think she should be available to use in the tournament.

 

[DrDogg]

When will the official decision be made? I haven't even downloaded Skarlet yet, but if she's being allowed at Evo, I want to main her (or at least find someone locally who is maining her so I can learn the match-up). The more time I have to do that, the better. So whatever the decision is, it needs to be made ASAP.

That's funny. Cuz ae came put after June 1st. So they should ban it an just stick too ssf4

AE was an exception and is a very different situation compared to Skarlet. AE came out in early June for all regions, Skarlet still isn't available in EU. Also, Skarlet is a single character in a brand new game. AE is the third revision of SF4, and has been available in arcades around the world for months.

Apples to oranges.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

i think she should be banned because we already know there is a hotfix coming out that with changes for her and if it does not come out before the 6th this change will not be on the version play at evo.

also she has a lot of potencial and we do not know what kind of things can come out from here to evo.

 

[OtherworldOdd]

I honestly don't think she should be banned. Sure, you only have a month to get ready to play against her but people who actually want to play her only have a month to practice so it all evens out. I believe that if someone's going to be brave enough to run a character they've played for a month at a tournament, then let them.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I honestly don't think she should be banned. Sure, you only have a month to get ready to play against her but people who actually want to play her only have a month to practice so it all evens out. I believe that if someone's going to be brave enough to run a character they've played for a month at a tournament, then let them.

I learned how to play Reptile and Nightwolf in 2 days. (not saying I mastered them but I know their gameplans, best combos, strategies and stuff)

But learning the Nightwolf/Reptile matchup takes a lot more time. You need to play vs a lot of good Reptile players like THTB, Art, Chris G etc. And you need to play a lot of sets.

The game has been out for what? 3 months and I still haven't completely learned the Kung Lao, Shang Tsung and Kabal matchup. I still have no clue what's up with Sheeva, Sonya, Jax and Sektor since no one uses them online or offline. How can you even expect people to learn the Skarlet matchup in 1 month?

I realize this is an argument that can work both ways though.

 

[OtherworldOdd]

I learned how to play Reptile and Nightwolf in 2 days. (not saying I mastered them but I know their gameplans and stuff)

But learning the Nightwolf/Reptile matchup takes a lot more time. You need to play vs a lot of good Reptile players like THTB, Art, Chris G etc. And you need to play a lot of sets.

The game has been out for what? 3 months and I still haven't completely learned the Kung Lao, Shang Tsung and Kabal matchup. I still have no clue what's up with Sheeva, Sonya, Jax and Sektor since no one uses them online or offline. How can you even expect people to learn the Skarlet matchup in 1 month?

I realize this is an argument that can work both ways though.

Well, people not playing Skarlet have to learn to play against one more character. Skarlet players will have to learn to play against every other character in the roster as Skarlet. Yeah, the argument can work both ways, but when the game had been out for a week to only a month, there had still been tournaments going on. I just don't see what the problem is I guess.

 

[Sonya Blade]

Tokido won CEO, not Daigo, and he won using his Akuma, a character that was relatively unchanged from SSF4. Also, FloE, Marn, and Justin harve been playing AE for months since the arcade release which was around the same time as Japan's. So they were on the same level as everyone else.

Sorry, wrong major. Daigo won ReveLAtions, in which my point is a bit moot. My mistake.

And FloE, Marn, and Justin may have been playing AE, but again, it was no where near as accessible in the U.S. as it was in Japan, where Arcades are the primary means of competition.

As for why people keep comparing this to AE? Nothing we say proves anything to be honest. But it's a recent and similar situation. I think in the end, it just comes down to the player. In vanilla SFIV, the Japanese weren't quite as adjusted to the console characters as the people in the U.S. were, simply because they mostly play in arcades. Yet they still did very well in U.S. tournaments, simply because competition was superior in Japan at the time (and still is, but the U.S. is catching up.).

 

[Neb saibot]

You want to know why people compare this to AE, its because in the early 90's mk was sf rival in the arcades. mk and sf were and still are the two top fighting games with mk being american & sf being japanese, to this day the rivalry is still going on sf has dominated evo but now its mk's turn to come back at evo and remember between both franchises mk has sold way more than any fighting game franchise making it the best fighting game franchise in history.

 

[Paul Santoro]

Skarlet shouldnt be banned at all. To be honest within a month everyone will find any broken moves or strings or anything with skarlet....nd thats if TOM BRADY doesnt first.....

 

[damienjakk]

Is this a hypothetical poll or will EVO actually honor the votes now seeing as the numbers are drastically in favor of what they were completely opposed to?

 

[zael]

I don't think she should be banned.

The throw damage is obviously a big thing, but even if it isn't patched by Evo I don't think it would give a new Skarlet mainer an absolute edge compared to the solid mains of current top players. Maybe a tiny advantage but the whole "is 1 month enough?" goes both ways. 1 month to learn to defeat Skarlet is still 1 month learning to beat everyone else with Skarlet.

Now, there's the chance that someone finds an infinite with her and is going to sit on it til Evo. Couldn't the Evo staff just put down a blanket rule "if you are caught using an infinite you will be DQ'd immediately"? An unknown infinite will stick out like a sore thumb to the judges. And this would apply to every character not just skar.

Glitches are the other problem, and they're much harder to say this is fine/this is game breaking, but at least you could flat out disallow infinites and remove some potential probs.

 

[THTB]

It was stated when MK was announced for Evo, that any DLC that arrives after June 1st would not be allowed. It's after June 1st. I don't understand why there's anything to even discuss here. Evo won't be the last MK tournament. Skarlet isn't banned for life, only for this one event. If you want to play her in a tournament, then travel to another event after Evo.

Oh wow, it was? Wait, why the topic for voting, then? Was something changed last minute due to AE arriving?