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General/Other - Alien Should Alien get the Tanya treatment?

Does Alien Deserve the Tanya Treatment?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 68.2%
  • No

    Votes: 7 31.8%

  • Total voters
    22

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Leave alien the way he is. Give Kung Lao a overhead dive kick.

All bs aside let me explain. Leave it unsafe and allows him to actually play mkx. D4 and overhead dive kick. A very honest mix up if you ask me. Get hit by a d4 he gets pressure/get hit by the dive kick confirm into 19% or 26% for a bar? Very reasonable imo. Not to mention this would help hat trick with low hat set ups and gives him a threat for the opposition to respek. Thus giving him a honest mix up. Block the d4 it's your turn block the dive guess what? It's your turn. This is how all 50 50 characters should be.
 

Olcadan13

mkx apologist
Leave alien the way he is. Give Kung Lao a overhead dive kick.

All bs aside let me explain. Leave it unsafe and allows him to actually play mkx. D4 and overhead dive kick. A very honest mix up if you ask me. Get hit by a d4 he gets pressure/get hit by the dive kick confirm into 19% or 26% for a bar? Very reasonable imo. Not to mention this would help hat trick with low hat set ups and gives him a threat for the opposition to respek. Thus giving him a honest mix up. Block the d4 it's your turn block the dive guess what? It's your turn. This is how all 50 50 characters should be.
"Disregard the topic of this thread, buff my character."
 

DR.Innuendo

Kitana, Kenshi, Triborg
I don't need many words to make my point here. Alien is #1 on the tier list - and the other 2 characters (that also need to be nerfed) are judged by most players to be a half-tier below Alien. You can fight, kick, scream, justify, downplay, frame, enlighten, or Stone Cold Stomp all you want. If there's another patch, Alien will be "normalized." I would rather see my suggestion taken then to have Alien's frames chopped piece by piece.
if aliens bf4 or the f134 is touched it will ruin that character, at least how its been suggested in this thread.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
if aliens bf4 or the f134 is touched it will ruin that character, at least how its been suggested in this thread.
Its been suggested in this thread that if Alien is touched AT ALL, it will ruin the character...
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Leave alien the way he is. Give Kung Lao a overhead dive kick.

All bs aside let me explain. Leave it unsafe and allows him to actually play mkx. D4 and overhead dive kick. A very honest mix up if you ask me. Get hit by a d4 he gets pressure/get hit by the dive kick confirm into 19% or 26% for a bar? Very reasonable imo. Not to mention this would help hat trick with low hat set ups and gives him a threat for the opposition to respek. Thus giving him a honest mix up. Block the d4 it's your turn block the dive guess what? It's your turn. This is how all 50 50 characters should be.
that is a very good suggestion , let me ask if Kung lao could have his B2 faster or hitbox, whatever makes that OH better. would this be possible?. i like kung lao, and enjoy him. but unfortuantely i was a fan of the Hat trick variation more so than the other 2 variation's. and well its severely lacking, and even though is he kinda good now, he is still lacking against the cast, and should get some help. along with many other characters.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Its been suggested in this thread that if Alien is touched AT ALL, it will ruin the character...
Gav why do you dislike Alien so much, whatever variation you dislike and or all varaitions, what is the reason. is the matchup hard for your Kotal? not arguing i just wan't to hear your side. i think this thread got on manys nerves. i just wanna take it down a notch from my end, and ask where you are comming from?
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
that is a very good suggestion , let me ask if Kung lao could have his B2 faster or hitbox, whatever makes that OH better. would this be possible?. i like kung lao, and enjoy him. but unfortuantely i was a fan of the Hat trick variation more so than the other 2 variation's. and well its severely lacking, and even though is he kinda good now, he is still lacking against the cast, and should get some help. along with many other characters.
He is really slow up close. Some Kung Fu master right?
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
I just hope Injustice 2 doesn't have the same sort of hype-killing bullshit NRS' last two games have had. I don't even care if Alien's overpowered or not, I care about these games ending up with <300 participants at Evo because everyone who tunes in has to watch the kid from Jerry Maguire spamming rekkas over and over with Tanya and Alien or Superman laser and f23 his way to victory. Games live or die by their hype and this sort of shit is a nail in the coffin.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Gav why do you dislike Alien so much, whatever variation you dislike and or all varaitions, what is the reason. is the matchup hard for your Kotal? not arguing i just wan't to hear your side. i think this thread got on manys nerves. i just wanna take it down a notch from my end, and ask where you are comming from?
Take you and me out of the equation. The characters we know, the matchups we have to deal with, our personal preferences - leave them out.

Alien is OP.

Acidic is the worst, but the other 2 are also OP.

That's it.

Now, there may not be any more updates to MKXL. If there is one, you can be sure Alien will receive some tweaking.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
He is really slow up close. Some Kung Fu master right?
Wing Chun experts tend to be methodically moving. What is fast is their strikes, not their movement.

It's part of why Bruce Lee pushed to make a break from the traditional.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Wing Chun experts tend to be methodically moving. What is fast is their strikes, not their movement.

It's part of why Bruce Lee pushed to make a break from the traditional.
i like that you like martail arts gav. but i think he ment the startup of kung laos strings while he is close to them:) but no doubt you are correct about wing chun which btw is my favorite version/style of Kung Fu.

whne i use lao, i often find is hard for me to get a B2 oh strike out when im up close, due to the back and forht game we have and so many characters having 7 frame starters.
 

MK_Al

Noob
Leave alien the way he is. Give Kung Lao a overhead dive kick.

All bs aside let me explain. Leave it unsafe and allows him to actually play mkx. D4 and overhead dive kick. A very honest mix up if you ask me. Get hit by a d4 he gets pressure/get hit by the dive kick confirm into 19% or 26% for a bar? Very reasonable imo. Not to mention this would help hat trick with low hat set ups and gives him a threat for the opposition to respek. Thus giving him a honest mix up. Block the d4 it's your turn block the dive guess what? It's your turn. This is how all 50 50 characters should be.
Love this idea. But there's no reason to leave that acid crap the way it is.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
i like that you like martail arts gav. but i think he ment the startup of kung laos strings while he is close to them:) but no doubt you are correct about wing chun which btw is my favorite version/style of Kung Fu.

whne i use lao, i often find is hard for me to get a B2 oh strike out when im up close, due to the back and forht game we have and so many characters having 7 frame starters.
Lao definitely got overnerfed, IMO - although it wasn't apparent to me right away since I don't use him.

I'm not defending what was done. I'm just offering some insight. Fisticuffs, as it was in the beginning, was the best representation of how Wing Chun is effective in real application. Wing Chun practitioners look for every opportunity to exploit the centerline by firing off punch after punch and playing off their opponents reactions or just overwhelming them with them.

Just to add, many styles have implemented Wing Chun's punching techniques without adhering to its strict 'Horseman's Stance." Obviously, Jeet Kun Do is one of them - but my favorite is Pak Mei - or White Eyebrow Kung Fu. Pak Mei was a real person and his name meant White Eyebrow. He was the basis for this popular movie character...
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but most styles of Kung Fu employ beginner forms to build the strength, flexibility, and insight to effectively use higher level forms in real world application. With Pak Mei's forms, you need only insight. Strength and flexibility are not necessary. That is also Wing Chun's greatest strength, but Pak Mei suffers from no lack of mobility.
Sifu Simon Lui of Ng Yiu goes through the 9 Step Push Form very slowly to teach it, but when run at full speed in real life application - its tough to deal with. It effectively stuffs almost everything and leaves you with little space to work with.
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
if aliens bf4 or the f134 is touched it will ruin that character, at least how its been suggested in this thread.
can you provide reasons as of why making f134 a 3 hit mids would kill the character lol? it's a totally unnecessary 50/50, he doesnt need that cause he already has both OH / Low starters...

sounds like some ppl just want to bullshit their way to victory.
 

Tweedy

Noob
If that is the case, then why doesn't your post get more support?

Its one thing that would balance the character. It wouldn't leave the character a shell like other characters have been done, but something is going to be done if any patch is to come. Its inevitable. Do you have a better idea that doesn't involve downplaying? If not, how would removing the armor on the EX Flip ruin the character?
When have I downplayed Alien one time? It's hilarious that since I've only said truth about Alien, people say or assume that i'm downplaying, because that's their vague way to get around me being correct.

Removing the armor on EX flip and the low from F134 would do nothing to Tarkatan. It would hurt Acidic but not significantly. I never said that it would, but somehow i'm on the side of it killing him, right? Because i'm right and you have to put words in my mouth, in a vague way at that, to argue against me.

Lets talk about how you think that without EX flip, Alien will be a "pure poking character", despite having other armored moves that are faster than EX flip, or how you think people should pick their characters based on whether or not their specials use mostly back-forward or quarter-circle inputs. How did you put it "tap-tap vs brush-brush", I don't even remember lol?

Those things are tangible. Me downplaying Alien and saying that something would kill him, is not.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
When have I downplayed Alien one time?
I have two full time jobs and its the end of the school year. I know there are multiple times because I remember them, but I can't go back through them.

So, if anyone cares enough. Please, by all means. Let's play quote the Tweedy...
 

Tweedy

Noob
I have two full time jobs and its the end of the school year. I know there are multiple times because I remember them, but I can't go back through them.

So, if anyone cares enough. Please, by all means. Let's play quote the Tweedy...
Don't bluff, do it. I know that I've never downplayed.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Don't bluff, do it. I know that I've never downplayed.
It took a week for you to answer my post. In a another week, I will have some time. If someone wants to step in and search in the meantime, I know it won't be difficult. If not, I'll do it before too much time has passed. Maybe it will give me some insight behind your thought process.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
can you provide reasons as of why making f134 a 3 hit mids would kill the character lol? it's a totally unnecessary 50/50, he doesnt need that cause he already has both OH / Low starters...

sounds like some ppl just want to bullshit their way to victory.
let me put it in other terms you could understand. lets remove oh From B2 on reptile. since he has other oh and lows lets just do it. by your standards it wouldn't hurt him at all. and basically lets just do it because i have a hard time with the matchup, i don't have any facts as to why i think its strong i just wan't it removed, or ill just state its OP. and while we are at it, lets make B3 a mid, since there is also other lows in reptiles arsenal.

Reptile is a good example, because he has a safe oh special. some consider this op. i don't but others do, so what do you think? funny enough when you enhance it it also launches.


putting it simply, Alien F134 is not Overpowered, for crying out loud its a 10 frame mid and the last hit is a low. run and hide, its a 10 frame starting mid that ends in a low, and you can mix them up with it. seems to me some of you have a problem with the game mechanics and not the character. F134 being able to mixup into a safe oh is not a new thing in mkx or broke by any standard. ive already listed how many characters have 10 frame mids. and how many have safe mixups. so this Tail flip being safe is broke, is also ludicrous.


and lets just say removing a Viable mid to low starter would not hurt a character. and making a very slow special move unsafe on block not hurt a character either. this BS your way to victory comment you made. made me laugh, your logic is it won't hurt the character to much so lets do it. is laughable. thats not a reason or foundation to nerf a character. what because you don't like the matchup.

there is probably a reason that guy didn't reply to you, you kind of came off as a giant asshole, there are constant rude remarks in your posts ending in laugh's and you asked why he or she believes it could hurt his character i assume, then followed with your unwavering viewpoint. basically like you didn't care what he or she said, that you had your mind made up, then you came off with statements that are not facts, but opinions. what did you say, "doesn't need it cuz he allready has oh's and low's" and the " its a totally unnecessary 50/50"

well as i said before, just because a character has other methods does not make another one unnecessary! but more so the reason why F134 is so important is its a Mid and it goes into mixup, that is probably why you see so many Aliens use this one over the others, and the range that it has compared to Her B113 and 214. to eleminate the opponents desire to low profile with pokes, normal specials and low profiling starter's this is probably why its so importanat to alien players. i bet if you asked some top players, they will tell you one of the strongest tools in this game is MIDS. and messing with aliens fastest Mid or the main OH mixup tool. might hurt the character.

i bet that even if there was Alien players that thought that it would not hurt Her, they would find after the adjustment that it actually would change Aliens neutral in a bad way.


how about this. tell me why Aliens Tail Flip and F134 should be nerfed?

things i should Note is:

Alien is definitely not the only one who has safe mixups, and not the only one with safe specials or safe OH's. that being said Why is this an Alien thing and not a whole cast thing, if you truly believe all characters should not have safe mixups, and how would this even be achievable in the very few possible balance patches to come?


so there is your reasons why Nerfing F134 and Tail flip for no reason would hurt Alien.
 
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MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I have two full time jobs and its the end of the school year. I know there are multiple times because I remember them, but I can't go back through them.

So, if anyone cares enough. Please, by all means. Let's play quote the Tweedy...
gav... @Tweedy has not Downplayed alien once in this thread. i know in your opinion you consider every comment against your guys's agenda of Nerf the Alien a Downplay. but there is really nothing broke about alien. noone here has offered a single arguement that shows anything alien has is game changing or over the top. everything stated "safe mixups" and "a string that can be used as a mixup" are very well known tools that almost the entire cast has in there tool set.

to nerf aliens F134 and tail flip, would be extreamely unfair, and to make that type of nerf fair is the argument that all safe mixups should be removed from the game. and for that to happen there would have to be a multitude of balance patches on the way for quite some time. and if we have seen anything so far and read each patch notes, that is not their intent. we may have 1 or 2 patches left. and quite possibly none.

so remind me what is really cheap about Alien, and then tell me why its cheap. and explain why that tool sets it over the rest of the cast and gives alien the upper hand across the board!
when someone can do this with logical reasons, then and only then can alien be nerfed justly.

i really am under the impression that some are struggling against the matchup and truly don't understand what to do against alien because they don't main the character.
or
they just want to nerf the character for their own matchup benefit.
 

Tweedy

Noob
It took a week for you to answer my post. In a another week, I will have some time. If someone wants to step in and search in the meantime, I know it won't be difficult. If not, I'll do it before too much time has passed. Maybe it will give me some insight behind your thought process.
The worst that you'll find is "Alien shouldn't be banned", "Alien's unsafe unless he does regular overhead flip", "Alien's risk/reward is poor in comparison to characters with safe 50/50s".

And you'll probably use some vague argument against something that I've said, even if it's clearly not "downplaying".

A couple more notes.

It didn't take a week for me to respond to your post. It's also incredibly obvious that you know you're wrong, since you immediately use your real life responsibilities as a defense mechanism. I never said that you have to respond in a certain time. It took me 4-5 days to respond to one of yours. Chill.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/why-alien-should-be-banned.60130/page-5

There is the thread where I posted a ton about why Alien shouldn't be banned. Despite an emphasis on his negatives(since I was trying to stop him from being banned) I never downplayed. I also post about Alien's positives in the Tarkatan discussion regularly, I dispute characters armoring through rekkas, making it a bad match up for Alien. I was wrong about Alien one time in Pig's thread where I quickly corrected myself. I'm not a potato like you that pretends that Blood God's totems do not help him. When i'm wrong, I admit it.

Come at me bro.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
The worst that you'll find is "Alien shouldn't be banned", "Alien's unsafe unless he does regular overhead flip", "Alien's risk/reward is poor in comparison to characters with safe 50/50s".

And you'll probably use some vague argument against something that I've said, even if it's clearly not "downplaying".

A couple more notes.

It didn't take a week for me to respond to your post. It's also incredibly obvious that you know you're wrong, since you immediately use your real life responsibilities as a defense mechanism. I never said that you have to respond in a certain time. It took me 4-5 days to respond to one of yours. Chill.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/why-alien-should-be-banned.60130/page-5

There is the thread where I posted a ton about why Alien shouldn't be banned. Despite an emphasis on his negatives(since I was trying to stop him from being banned) I never downplayed. I also post about Alien's positives in the Tarkatan discussion regularly, I dispute characters armoring through rekkas, making it a bad match up for Alien. I was wrong about Alien one time in Pig's thread where I quickly corrected myself. I'm not a potato like you that pretends that Blood God's totems do not help him. When i'm wrong, I admit it.

Come at me bro.
tweedy is correct in his statements about alien. nothing cheap about alien that is Game Breaking or Game changing that deserves aNerf.


would you agree that the only reason we have this nerf alien debacle is that several top players and a few low level players, had a bad match or two against some of there boasting friends, and it made them angry, so some not naming anyone, made a few streams and a video to ephisise Aliens strengths in the light to make her look broke so they can win next time they play said player? sound about right @Tweedy ?
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
gav... @Tweedy has not Downplayed alien once in this thread. i know in your opinion you consider every comment against your guys's agenda of Nerf the Alien a Downplay. but there is really nothing broke about alien. noone here has offered a single arguement that shows anything alien has is game changing or over the top. everything stated "safe mixups" and "a string that can be used as a mixup" are very well known tools that almost the entire cast has in there tool set.

to nerf aliens F134 and tail flip, would be extreamely unfair, and to make that type of nerf fair is the argument that all safe mixups should be removed from the game. and for that to happen there would have to be a multitude of balance patches on the way for quite some time. and if we have seen anything so far and read each patch notes, that is not their intent. we may have 1 or 2 patches left. and quite possibly none.

so remind me what is really cheap about Alien, and then tell me why its cheap. and explain why that tool sets it over the rest of the cast and gives alien the upper hand across the board!
when someone can do this with logical reasons, then and only then can alien be nerfed justly.

i really am under the impression that some are struggling against the matchup and truly don't understand what to do against alien because they don't main the character.
or
they just want to nerf the character for their own matchup benefit.