General/Other - Alien Should Alien get the Tanya treatment?

[Admired]

Since MK:XL was released, it seems like Alien is the new Tanya. If there was ever another patch, should Tarkatan get the same treatment as Kobu Jutsu? Here's a few comparisons.

Add a gap to Alien's main string.
- Tanya's b1,2+4 was the main string people used before rekkas. After the patch, It's now -10 and has a gap.
- Alien's f1,3,4 is the main string I see people use. If Alien received a gap to this string, the 50/50 mind games are still in place. However, if the opponent blocks the initial string, there would be an option to avoid the follow up rekka pressure... just like you can do with Tanya.

Remove armor on Tarkatan Fury (EX Rekka.)
- Tanya lost armor on her rekka starter. It was a safe wake up option that could lead into a full combo.
- Alien's rekka isn't as safe as Tanya's was; but it's still a viable wake up option that can lead into a full combo.

With the right timing, Alien can jail the delayed low rekka and still block armored attacks. I tested Kung Lao's spin (7f) and Subzero's slide (9f) and was able to block those reversals a few times. Although it wasn't consistent in the slightest. In the right hands, Alien players have a virtually safe armored wake up option... that can also combo.

These are just some thoughts I had. Does Alien deserve the same changes that Tanya has? Would this even affect Alien's play style?

Edit: Pretty late, but I added a poll.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

no, i think Alien is fine. but might i add i have no clue about

, my pocket character is

and i don't use

because i like Dot Combos, and getting stacks from setups and hard reads.not saying Alien is not top tier, he is undoubtly in top 5 in this game, but that alone is no reason for a nerf.

honestly im not even sure there is any more patches to come. but if the vast majority believes that Tarkatan needs a nerf on his Alien Rekkas. then get them nerfed for all i care, but in no way should any of his universal normals be touched. because i play Alien

and that has already been nerfed and what NRS and many top players at the time called normalized and balanced.

of course there will be the few top players and many casuals that believe a character is still broken, but does that ever sease to exsist? i have seen many hope from character to character for which they believed to be the best.

but back into what you where talking about:

Add a gap into aliens main string:

well there is a gap ion between the overhead and the low.

and there are gaps when they are delayed to make them safe.

from what i understand its allready there, but someone would have to talk to you about the throw ending being safe, because im not that very much educated on that string, because I really don't play him. i play against him and armor through, but i don't know if its still possible or if its so little of a window to link it that others are not pulling it off on me Online.

 

[errormacro7]

Yes

But I'm ready for Tweedy to come and tell us he's not as good as we think he is.

 

[lm Tweakk]

I just don't understand why his tail flip is an overhead and -7. It should either be a mixup or safe , not both. Tired of free mixups. Alien is literally so fucked up.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I just don't understand why his tail flip is an overhead and -7. It should either be a mixup or safe , not both. Tired of free mixups. Alien is literally so fucked up.

kind of like johnny's safe oh? or many other characters that have methods to make mixups safe?

if im correct his armor version is not as safe? but many character have safe launching moves.

wait a second, the OP was talking about the rekkas should get nerfed how did we get on a move that has nothing to do with brokeness?

 

[ABACABB]

Maybe try to lvl up instead of crying for nerfs,anyway ,there will be no more patches.

Oh and btw there are many other bs chars which deserves nerfs so maybe focus on them isntead of alien ?

.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

@Admired
you should add a poll to this.

if its the rekkas only that you are treying to get nerfed im 100% behind that if they are truly still broke.

 

[Colest]

This thread is off to a riveting start.

 

[Tweedy]

Yes

But I'm ready for Tweedy to come and tell us he's not as good as we think he is.

Totally, because I have a reputation for that.

Actually, I've always said that Alien is one of the best characters is the game. I've only argued against him being banned.

And no, no characters, including Alien, or whoever, should be drastically nerfed.

 

[Olcadan13]

I never understood why people were calling Alien broke until I fought a good Acidic the other day lol, but Tarkatan is not a big deal at all, no nerfs needed but I am also not contesting to any nerfs

 

[PlatypusVortex]

I don't know i feel like hes kinda broke but also that we all just haven't properly learned the match up yet. I could see a few changes being needed like with f134 tail flip. Theres no consequences to using this mixup other than losing your turn. Jax has something similar with 123 overhead dash punch and 12 overhead dash punch but if you guess correctly you get a full combo.

So making tail flip unsafe is one option that still leaves it somewhat viable. Or yeah you could leave at -7 and just add a gap to the string. I dunno.

 

[Helicopper]

Make the last hit of f134 a mid. I agree with the removal of the armor for his rekkas. I never used it anyway lol

 

[Tweedy]

I don't know i feel like hes kinda broke but also that we all just haven't properly learned the match up yet. I could see a few changes being needed like with f134 tail flip. Theres no consequences to using this mixup other than losing your turn. Jax has something similar with 123 overhead dash punch and 12 overhead dash punch but if you guess correctly you get a full combo.

So making tail flip unsafe is one option that still leaves it somewhat viable. Or yeah you could leave at -7 and just add a gap to the string. I dunno.

You can fuzzy Alien's F134, you cannot fuzzy Jax's 123 overhead dash and 12 overhead dash.

Do people weigh Alien's risk reward vs other characters in the game? Like the damage and safety of his mix ups? What makes Alien so ridiculous is his neutral. His jump 2 is way better than Lao's ever was, his jump 4 is well, his jump 4. There's not enough recovery on flip, whether used in the air or not, snag is essentially a 3/4ths screen 13 frame low that grants a hard knockdown and is safe at that range. He has 50/50 armor for crying out loud, along with armor that goes farther than halfscreen.

I feel like people just go to his F134 string as something to nerf, because they don't understand the character well enough yet. That's all they can really pinpoint at the moment. As an Alien player, I would love for his F134 string to get butchered, if he's going to be nerfed. It wouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[chrisisnice]

If it gets Tanya buffed... yes

 

[MadeOfMetal]

You can fuzzy Alien's F134, you cannot fuzzy Jax's 123 overhead dash and 12 overhead dash.

Do people weigh Alien's risk reward vs other characters in the game? Like the damage and safety of his mix ups? What makes Alien so ridiculous is his neutral. His jump 2 is way better than Lao's ever was, his jump 4 is well, his jump 4. There's not enough recovery on flip, whether used in the air or not, snag is essentially a 3/4ths screen 13 frame low that grants a hard knockdown and is safe at that range. He has 50/50 armor for crying out loud, along with armor that goes farther than halfscreen.

I feel like people just go to his F134 string as something to nerf, because they don't understand the character well enough yet. That's all they can really pinpoint at the moment. As an Alien player, I would love for his F134 string to get butchered, if he's going to be nerfed. It wouldn't be that big of a deal.

but at the same time before his F134 should remain the same until someone comes out with a sound reason as to why it should be nerfed.

just gonna say it, if your reason is he is safe mixups with low to oh or low/oh. then stop there, more than half the cast have the same thing.

 

[Invincible Salads]

hey im an alien player as well, but there is no need for us to get angry at others furstration with a character. i have felt this my self with matchups.

but simply put, i don't see anything that is broken about alien. but if others can explaine a sound reason for something then im sure i will agree that it needs normalization, like for example.

if aliens rekkas are like Reo's explination then yes it should be altered because that is not fair.

but if we are nitpicking everything about alien. like long reach, or his BF4 being safe, then NO. there is nothing wrong with something being safe and a mixup, if you have a problem with that you are playing the wrong game, or simply look at the roster, and see how many characters have safe mixups. like: Kotal, Reptile, Raiden, Cassie, Erron, Jax, Liu Kang, Goro, Johnny Cage, Ermac, Predator, i will not name them all. they either have a way to make them safe, or they simply are safe

what did reo say about the rekkas? i'd like to know

also people who are complaining about flip being safe, its fine the way it functions, low risk low reward, the non ex version doesnt launch and he's -7, mostly safe,but can be punished by certain moves and definitely pressured. Sure he can armor after its blocked, but honestly lthere are other characters can do stuff like that. Jax, Tremor, etc.

making his meterless summersault unsafe would make it pretty useless outside combo enders. And no he doesnt need the tanya treatment, what she got was a mistake and you know it.

 

[Tweedy]

but at the same time before his F134 should remain the same until someone comes out with a sound reason as to why it should be nerfed.

just gonna say it, if your reason is he is safe mixups with low to oh or low/oh. then stop there, more than half the cast have the same thing.

Yeah

I mean I've played characters that have good long-winded meaty strings, like Lao's B321 and Kotal's B122, for most of the game's life. Alien's F1 has way too much recovery to be considered as good as those strings imo. You see Dragon using F2 to meaty, because of how much recovery F1 has.

Again, to the people who spread propaganda, do not take that as me saying that Alien is bad. Alien is top 5 for sure. Just not because of F134 imo.

Take a look at B113 sometime homies.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

what did reo say about the rekkas? i'd like to know

also people who are complaining about flip being safe, its fine the way it functions, low risk low reward, the non ex version doesnt launch and he's -7, mostly safe,but can be punished by certain moves and definitely pressured. Sure he can armor after its blocked, but honestly lthere are other characters can do stuff like that. Jax, Tremor, etc.

making his meterless summersault unsafe would make it pretty useless outside combo enders. And no he doesnt need the tanya treatment, what she got was a mistake and you know it.

let me start off with, I am an Alien Player, and i am not for Alien in any Variation getting nerfed unless its absolutely needed. i also dont think his flip is anywhere near broke just look at the roster.

to me it sounds like you are very well reasonable and that you are making a legit debate.
do you remember his video a while back? that is the Reo im talking about. he said it was broke and jailed but from what i understand now, it already got adjusted and normalized from a patch ago. so that problem is no longer there. but then again, im not a Tarkatan main.

Yeah

I mean I've played characters that have good long-winded meaty strings, like Lao's B321 and Kotal's B122, for most of the game's life. Alien's F1 has way too much recovery to be considered as good as those strings imo. You see Dragon using F2 to meaty, because of how much recovery F1 has.

Again, to the people who spread propaganda, do not take that as me saying that Alien is bad. Alien is top 5 for sure. Just not because of F134 imo.

Take a look at B113 sometime homies.

yep his F134 is a good mid as far as mids go, but if your opponent uses anything faster than 10 frames, then he will get blown up, his B113 is 10x better than his F134 as a punisher and all around pressure string. as matter of a fact i use a variant as my punisher and combo extender the B11U4 not a mixup but a very strong launcher.

Make the last hit of f134 a mid. I agree with the removal of the armor for his rekkas. I never used it anyway lol

why would you do that? i have to hear this?

first of all let me ask do you main/pocket all 3 variations of alien?

and why would She need a mixup option chnged to a mid?

Maybe try to lvl up instead of crying for nerfs,anyway ,there will be no more patches.

Oh and btw there are many other bs chars which deserves nerfs so maybe focus on them isntead of alien ?

.

hey im an alien player as well, but there is no need for us to get angry at others furstration with a character. i have felt this my self with matchups.

but simply put, i don't see anything that is broken about alien. but if others can explaine a sound reason for something then im sure i will agree that it needs normalization, like for example.

if aliens rekkas are like Reo's explination then yes it should be altered because that is not fair.(NOTE: Reo is not saying this now, that was patched out)

but if we are nitpicking everything about alien. like long reach, or his BF4 being safe, then NO. there is nothing wrong with something being safe and a mixup, if you have a problem with that you are playing the wrong game, or simply look at the roster, and see how many characters have safe mixups. like: Kotal, Reptile, Raiden, Cassie, Erron, Jax, Liu Kang, Goro, Johnny Cage, Ermac, Predator, i will not name them all. they either have a way to make them safe, or they simply are safe

 

[Tweedy]

But yeah the nerf suggestions in this thread are super irrelevant. It just shows how much time TYM regulars really put into characters before complaining about them.

Take away the armor on rekkas, put a gap in F134 and take away the low. Not the point of the character. It won't hurt him much, if at all.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

But yeah the nerf suggestions in this thread are super irrelevant. It just shows how much time TYM regulars really put into characters before complaining about them.

Take away the armor on rekkas, put a gap in F134 and take away the low. Not the point of the character. It won't hurt him much, if at all.

besides the plain fact there is no reason to do any of it. because its all by this games standards normal stuff, that almost every character has.
not considered broke or unfair. just things that some don't like dealing with. if anyone actually come up with a legit degate on why something of aliens moves/strings/specials are actually are game breaking and needs to be normalized then ill back them up, but from what i have herd is one liners, on this is dumb (end of story) no explination. no considering of the rest of the cast. it doesn't look like anyone who said something bad about alien has said, this move seems strong, do any other characters have this? it seems like they skipped that step.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

No one should get the kinda treatment Tanya got cause they murdered her entirely. Kobu was her only good viable variation left and now she's butt across the board.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

this time around we as MKXL Die hard fans WE should show every kombatant the respect to Determine if a character needs a nerf, then if they need a nerf, Decide the best way to do so without effecting other variations. and without ruining that Character as a whole. because we realize that with each character there is 10thousand Players that use or main that character and there are 100's of thousands that love that character.

Bottom line: what i have herd here was:

• nerf Rekka by the op:

which is Variation specific no doubt, but does it need it, is the question to be determined?

• Nerf BF4 normal BF4

(there reason was its a safe mixup). well it is a safe mixup but its very common to have that in this game, Kotal (B112/B122), Kitana (her low to oh Xray, Cassie (her max range D+F 1 and F3), Smoke (B1 and F131), Sektor (B1 and F131), Johnny cage (F24), Kung Jin (B14, D3), Mileena (21U4 B21 and F3), Sonya (B14 and B311), Jax Everything but special enders), Predator (anything into plasma), and many more characters have safe mixups by themselfsd or tools to make them safe.

• and finally Nerf F134 and make the 4 low a Mid:

no reason was givin beside the same as above, its a mixup that is safe... once again this has been proven not a logical reason to nerf it or change it. since most the cast has the same. and its a norm with MKXL.

 

[Eldriken]

@errormacro7, I'm sure you're just joking, but come on. @Tweedy, thanks for responding appropriately compared to the norm as of late. =P But if this thread turns into the nonsense that others have turned into because people are trying to trigger Tweedy, I'll close it immediately. Ball's in your court.

To answer the topic's question: No. Tanya didn't deserve to be nerfed as hard as she did. Despite how much I hated her or any other character in the game because of their nonsense, I wouldn't want them nerfed into obscurity.

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

Tanya got nerfed because you guys didn't know how to armor out of rekkas, please stop

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Tanya got nerfed because you guys didn't know how to armor out of rekkas, please stop

yeah i have no clue how any of these nerfs have come to be, some of them are so simple to get out of its mind blowing that they actually got a nerf on a patch. some of them seem agenda pushy to say the least.

Tanya didn't deserve it, nor does any great character this game holds. untill proven otherwise by Logic and reason. but agin noone deserves what Tanya suffered.