General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[Osirun]

The real question is, why the fuck did they change his b3 to f4 and add the new move as b3?

Why didn't they just add the new move as f4?!

Lol it's weird.

I liked @SPY's explanation that the animation is the same as 1123. That makes sense from a design perspective. In addition, I feel that putting Shin Kick as f4 will make it easier to roll back for the QCB into Hell Sparks as a punish. In Boneshaper, old b3,1, d2 was pretty easy to use as a punish, but in Impostor, old b3 was not part of a string, so you had to immediately do: b3 > d,b+2 in order to punish. Doing that quickly enough, on reaction to a punishable block string or special move, was a bit difficult for me. Now, I can punish with: f4 > d,b+2. The rolling motion is easier, and hopefully it will make the punish in Impostor easier to do.

I like that Shinnok can ex his fireball on block now (even though it makes his ex amulet worthless) but did y'all really want an overhead to play just another 50/50 character?

This is an interesting question. My answer is no, I don't really want to play another 50/50 character, but that is how the majority of the other strong characters in the game have been designed. So, at the start, I decided I love Mortal Kombat, and I will play it even though 50/50s are a thing. My character doesn't have one? Well, okay, I don't have to learn it. My character now has a 50/50, and therefore I benefit. So, I don't like 50/50s, but I really like that Shinnok now has one that I can use to play mind games similar to other characters. And I can still throw their ass if they try to guess.

I also am trying to think of a way for EX Amulet to be useful now. Perhaps it does more chip than canceling a Hell Spark? Or maybe it is still a more consistent option in the corner? Will need to experiment.

@regulas Good question about the Boneshaper string changes. Is the patch out for XBONE yet? That's what I have. Can anyone on PS4 give us an update on how the new b3 and f4 have impacted Boneshaper's b3,1,d2 string?

 

[Braindead]

I liked @SPY's explanation that the animation is the same as 1123. That makes sense from a design perspective. In addition, I feel that putting Shin Kick as f4 will make it easier to roll back for the QCB into Hell Sparks as a punish. In Boneshaper, old b3,1, d2 was pretty easy to use as a punish, but in Impostor, old b3 was not part of a string, so you had to immediately do: b3 > d,b+2 in order to punish. Doing that quickly enough, on reaction to a punishable block string or special move, was a bit difficult for me. Now, I can punish with: f4 > d,b+2. The rolling motion is easier, and hopefully it will make the punish in Impostor easier to do.



This is an interesting question. My answer is no, I don't really want to play another 50/50 character, but that is how the majority of the other strong characters in the game have been designed. So, at the start, I decided I love Mortal Kombat, and I will play it even though 50/50s are a thing. My character doesn't have one? Well, okay, I don't have to learn it. My character now has a 50/50, and therefore I benefit. So, I don't like 50/50s, but I really like that Shinnok now has one that I can use to play mind games similar to other characters. And I can still throw their ass if they try to guess.

I also am trying to think of a way for EX Amulet to be useful now. Perhaps it does more chip than canceling a Hell Spark? Or maybe it is still a more consistent option in the corner? Will need to experiment.

Yeah good answers.

 

[Youphemism]

And? What's wrong with it being 18f?

Well it's not exactly the fastest thing in the world. If it's not reactable then it's easily fuzziable next to his 7f low...

 

[stealthychainsawninja]

It appears that Hell Sparks vaults opponents A LOT higher into the air when you meter burn one of the fireballs. Looks like they altered how the fireballs count towards scale-fall or whatever the hell you want to call it. Undocumented change?

Example video (Very sure this wasn't possible pre-patch). I know it's not optimal at all since Shinnok is a meter hog, but this just shows that you can get a few more juggles in with Hell Sparks that weren't possible before. Hunt for new combos? If this is new, at least he has an unbreakable option now.

This is possible pre-patch, at least on PC, even without EXing the last db2. Doesn't look like it pops them any higher to me comparing side by side to my version, but video is all I can go off until the next PC patch.

 

[AcMilan91]

any changes on neromancer,someone can explain?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

RECAP FOR THOSE ASKING: Changes feel like they are meant to be for a rushed character.
Necromancer: Tracking not changed. Still whiffs like no tomorrow. That includes Mileena whiffs. DB1 being able to steer like people are saying is a nice change (that should have been there day 1).
Hell Spark being MBed is also meant since day 1. The frame data was in place to support it. Missed glitch probably.
Boneshaper F4 strings are intact (from old B3)
Mimic Cry on Jax also looks like an obvious miss on their side. They fixed it.
Only significant change is an addition of an overhead, which looks like a sloppy (although acceptable) fix to an otherwise broken toolset.

I am disappointed in the lack of addressing his Necro tracking. I have NOT whiffed a MB shoulder since patch. I'd like someone to confirm this is fixed please.

I am disappointed in the lack of fixing BF1 being too slow to startup and too slow to recover in boneshaper. I was hoping for a 2 frame improvement. I agree that BF1 MB is useless. I wanted armor on this since shoulder is such an awful wake-up move.

Surprised DB1 speeds for all variations was not sped up given you can't cancel into it outside of Imposter.

 

[Braindead]

RECAP FOR THOSE ASKING: Changes feel like they are meant to be for a rushed character.
Necromancer: Tracking not changed. Still whiffs like no tomorrow. That includes Mileena whiffs. DB1 being able to steer like people are saying is a nice change (that should have been there day 1).
Hell Spark being MBed is also meant since day 1. The frame data was in place to support it. Missed glitch probably.
Boneshaper F4 strings are intact (from old B3)
Mimic Cry on Jax also looks like an obvious miss on their side. They fixed it.
Only significant change is an addition of an overhead, which looks like a sloppy (although acceptable) fix to an otherwise broken toolset.

I am disappointed in the lack of addressing his Necro tracking. I have NOT whiffed a MB shoulder since patch. I'd like someone to confirm this is fixed please.

I am disappointed in the lack of fixing BF1 being too slow to startup and too slow to recover in boneshaper. I was hoping for a 2 frame improvement. I agree that BF1 MB is useless. I wanted armor on this since shoulder is such an awful wake-up move.

Surprised DB1 speeds for all variations was not sped up given you can't cancel into it outside of Imposter.

I agree BF1's recovery is horrendous in Bone Shaper, but EX BF1 is still useful when you're trading projectiles from full screen because it gets you a knockdown. Knockdowns are good.

 

[regulas]

For a fullscreen projectile it actually has a decent start-up speed relative to most characters. 17-24 is more normal for everyone else so ours isnt so bad.

 

[xSMoKEx]

Wish they would have tweaked his frame data and damage rather than give him frame traps and an unnecessary overhead.

• F2/F22 cancel advantage being increased to allow for flick blockstrings would have been a nice tweak for necro. Allows him to space and play his "keep away" game much more effectively.

• An overhead for Imposter ONLY would be cool. It makes sense, he is vortex based and needs a mix-up, NRS was spot on with the buff.
  
• Start-up frame decrease (make it faster) on F2 would be helpful for both Imposter and Necro, very slightly tweak would have been nice.
• Bone Shaper Ex Scoop on hit should be QoL buffed so that the flip on hit is always the same, from certain distances the timing to land a hit is VERY awkward.
• Overall damage buff of roughly 5%.

NRS' buff mainly helped out Imposter, who has the hit adv frames on the Soul Steal move to truly utilize this new overhead to it's fullest potential. Not to say that the other variations don't benefit from the overhead, because already with Bone Shaper I can think of a few uses for it.

So essentially my main issue is that it doesn't fix the character, just makes one variation a lot better with the help of an overhead somewhat toxic (lbsh 30%+ chip is somewhat ridiculous, even with pushblock in place) and the other two get little to no help with their fundamental problems.

This is how I would buff the character to start, not every variation needed an overhead IMO. The other variations still need band-aid fixed, these changes did not help them. Now, when/if these small fixes come for the other variations, they may be over the top due to these currently uninspired and unhelpful changes.

 

[Braindead]

I agree that Bone Shaper didn't really need an overhead, but I'll take it anyway and it might make life a bit easier for him.

At least on close knockdown they have something to be afraid of now.

 

[STK]

im thinking imposter is going to end up being the go to! the vortex possibility after the steal are strong.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

A couple of other things that were buffed:

B2, Standing 2 and Standing 4 are all +2 on block, where as the first two are much more usable than before.

 

[STK]

oh! cant wait to get home! its lab day!

 

[BigMilk]

This is /exactly/ what I wanted... Don't make him OD, just make him viable, and they did it well. Thank you NRS.

I think he might be closer to OD lol. Shinnok went 0 to 100

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Did df4 always do 9.5%? I thought it was 8%. I agree the frame data now shows +2 on some moves. 2 getting a buff is meaningless. It misses everything. B2 and 4 are still up to discussion

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Did df4 always do 9.5%? I thought it was 8%. I agree the frame data now shows +2 on some moves. 2 getting a buff is meaningless. It misses everything. B2 and 4 are still up to discussion

The EX Bone Grab does 8% while the base version is 10%

 

[Bombardier777]

Hello everyone! I'm a new shinnok user in mkx. I use bone shaper but I been practicing with impostor lately. If anyone is willing to give me a hand to get the combos right, please send me a friend request on ps4. My psn id is ThaBombardier . Thank you

 

[Ninequads93]

Sorry y'all haven't had time to lab but I'll flesh it out when I can I messed with it a little and you can get some significant damage because after trance you get damage buff plus copied move which you can use to extend your combos for ex.

Jacqui
Kotal Kahn
Kung Lao
Kitana

Etc.

Overhead f22 mimic move etc.

 

[LavaG]

I guess its safe to say the hell sparks are now kinda safe since you have just a lil time to delay and meterburn it, if you condition your opponent to respect the meter burned version ,they will now be scared to do a reversal and you can get away with the normal hell sparks. I'm constantly abusing d4 into hell sparks now without being punished

 

[LavaG]

Did df4 always do 9.5%? I thought it was 8%. I agree the frame data now shows +2 on some moves. 2 getting a buff is meaningless. It misses everything. B2 and 4 are still up to discussion

You can use b2 afer any string into amulet curse and follow up with f4 into hell sparks, all hell sparks connect and you can meter burn it for more pressure.

 

[legion666]

I guess its safe to say the hell sparks are now kinda safe since you have just a lil time to delay and meterburn it, if you condition your opponent to respect the meter burned version ,they will now be scared to do a reversal and you can get away with the normal hell sparks. I'm constantly abusing d4 into hell sparks now without being punished

That is why I argued the most that it would be better to give him that buff ( ability to MB on block for plus frames) than to just make the 3rd spark safe. Because you can also armor through the 3rd spark, so MB covers that option too. And of course the fear of MB makes it a mind game and you can't just punish sparks when Shinnok has meter.

 

[Phantasmagore]

What is the significant change in Hell Sparks and what are its consequences? I'm a noob so I don't fully understand what happened.

Also, what is the common opinion of the Necromancer variation after its specific change?

 

[gibster13]

What is the significant change in Hell Sparks and what are its consequences? I'm a noob so I don't fully understand what happened.

Also, what is the common opinion of the Necromancer variation after its specific change?

You can now EX Hell sparks on block. When you couldn't before the patch. It is amazing now It is also +24 on block and allows for more shinnok pressure. I like to use f22 hell sparks

 

[Braindead]

B2 is now +2 on block?!!?!

 

[gibster13]

B2 is now +2 on block?!!?!

That is correct