General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[Braindead]

Ran a pretty good set with HoneyBee the other day. Check it out if you're interested:

4:00 LMAO

 

[legion666]

Ran a pretty good set with HoneyBee the other day. Check it out if you're interested:

Your run cancel F4 after MB sparks look pretty clean. I still have problems jailing with it, my friend, playing Thunder God armors out from time to time) and I eat a full combo into corner 50/50 for days)))

 

[legion666]

Ran a pretty good set with HoneyBee the other day. Check it out if you're interested:

I also noticed that you don't combo Ex Shoulder into Scepter Slam when it would put your opponent into the corner. It is awesome try it)

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Maybe at something like max distance the frame data changes?

Max range d4 HS whiffs, but I thought this was already known.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

It is either 17 or 18, but on block you have to add the block advantage which is -4, so it is either 13 or 14, but hell sparks are 13 fr start up so either way you shouldn't be able to jump out. He was using Raiden:/
Edit: it is 18 as I said, and it is 14 on block, I am on ps4.

Well I tried everything, stance switches between the both of us, using d4 at all ranges, different sides...ect and he cant get out of it from what im seeing, I am on xbox so that might be something to consider. idk

 

[GS_Zodiac]

4:00 LMAO

This is really fucking good and I'm using this match as a reference. Kudos to you two!

Edit: what are shinnok's worst mu's? I'm just picking him up today and loving him, but I don't see enough of him played to gauge it.

Also does f22 1+3 have to end in bf1 in order to jail into f4 string? Or can I use the end of the f22 sting to go straight into like b4 or something?

 

[SPY]

This is really fucking good and I'm using this match as a reference. Kudos to you two!

Edit: what are shinnok's worst mu's? I'm just picking him up today and loving him, but I don't see enough of him played to gauge it.

Also does f22 1+3 have to end in bf1 in order to jail into f4 string? Or can I use the end of the f22 sting to go straight into like b4 or something?

You required to do f221+3~bf1 if you air juggle opponent, if you hit them with stand f22 you not required to do 1+3 for bf1 to connect.
But there is no point not to do 1+3, since it's just free restand, positioning and additional damage.

 

[SaSSolino]

Ran a pretty good set with HoneyBee the other day. Check it out if you're interested:

loved it, thanks

 

[Skylight1]

4:00 LMAO

Jesus that video proved D'vorah can STILL own even with a less easier dash cancel after bug grenade.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

3,1,2/Shoulder...the 2nd hit of shoulder does not land on Predator

 

[Braindead]

3,1,2/Shoulder...the 2nd hit of shoulder does not land on Predator

Man I feel sorry for other variations having to use that string.

 

[Skylight1]

I have a question regarding using Shinnok, purely on the basis of him as a main. Our character, yes, our character, have continued to prove to the entire MKX community that he is an amazing character to be used or even be placed in the game. However, it wasn't always like this. I remember playing Shinnok DAY 1 after I unlocked him and saying to myself "wow, this character is really good, but he is lacking something so crucial". I then come on this forum and my assumption was proven accurate -- Shinnok was an incomplete character. You could easily of seen it with the way Necromancer was used. The horrible tracking on those skeletal grab hands and the horrible placement of the flick was just enough to make an NM Shinnok main (me) go insane. After months of making him work (through tech and watching combo videos), people finally realized his main potential was to use his awesome Mimicry (which gives him the fabled vortex and a damage boost for the 3-4.5 seconds). Not only did people jump the proverbial border with this, the fact that this was combined with the air teleport, made Shinnok an incredible sight to behold.

Fast forward to the present and we still have people clamoring on about how Shinnok is indeed a much more viable character than he was before. Bone Shaper received a HUGE buff with the +8 Dark Beam on hit and how we're now allowed to do a 2 in 1 after the Judgement Day (F221+3) string. And, with improvements to the horrible tracking issues of necromancer (though, running animations or even run ins are still whiffing the flicks and grabs, something that should've been fixed immediately. Though, it isn't as bad as an issue that I'm making it out to be).

With all of this, Shinnok should be pretty set right? Shinnok purely as a main though, even with all of this, still seems to be far-fetched and I don't understand why. Shinnok is WAY too cool to miss out on the awesomeness that he brings to the table and his moveset (when finally fixed,) will show this. But, just in case he gets nerfed (like the most recent patch did to him by taking him down +10 frames down from +24 hell sparks on block, preventing the insane pressure we had to convert into something) should we start to invest in another character?

 

[4x4lo8o]

How many characters can punish non-MB hellsparks on block?
The frame data looks pretty bad but right now no one is really punishing me.

Also, how do you guys use shoulder? Is that just a combo ender?

 

[GS_Zodiac]

I have a question regarding using Shinnok, purely on the basis of him as a main. Our character, yes, our character, have continued to prove to the entire MKX community that he is an amazing character to be used or even be placed in the game. However, it wasn't always like this. I remember playing Shinnok DAY 1 after I unlocked him and saying to myself "wow, this character is really good, but he is lacking something so crucial". I then come on this forum and my assumption was proven accurate -- Shinnok was an incomplete character. You could easily of seen it with the way Necromancer was used. The horrible tracking on those skeletal grab hands and the horrible placement of the flick was just enough to make an NM Shinnok main (me) go insane. After months of making him work (through tech and watching combo videos), people finally realized his main potential was to use his awesome Mimicry (which gives him the fabled vortex and a damage boost for the 3-4.5 seconds). Not only did people jump the proverbial border with this, the fact that this was combined with the air teleport, made Shinnok an incredible sight to behold.

Fast forward to the present and we still have people clamoring on about how Shinnok is indeed a much more viable character than he was before. Bone Shaper received a HUGE buff with the +8 Dark Beam on hit and how we're now allowed to do a 2 in 1 after the Judgement Day (F221+3) string. And, with improvements to the horrible tracking issues of necromancer (though, running animations or even run ins are still whiffing the flicks and grabs, something that should've been fixed immediately. Though, it isn't as bad as an issue that I'm making it out to be).

With all of this, Shinnok should be pretty set right? Shinnok purely as a main though, even with all of this, still seems to be far-fetched and I don't understand why. Shinnok is WAY too cool to miss out on the awesomeness that he brings to the table and his moveset (when finally fixed,) will show this. But, just in case he gets nerfed (like the most recent patch did to him by taking him down +10 frames down from +24 hell sparks on block, preventing the insane pressure we had to convert into something) should we start to invest in another character?

I'm coming from a day 1 kenshi(awful) to Hollywood cassie, to Sq d'vorah, to tempest kung Lao. As a player who is looking to become competitive and enter the tourney scene I have gone through a lot of character crisis in many games looking for the one character that feels right. I always considered myself to be heavily rush down oriented and so Yung Lao seemed to be the answer I was looking for. So I played him and I learned and I grew, but something just still felt off. I had written shinnok off from the very beginning because like you said he was so incomplete. Yet a few days ago after seeing @Kidigital and woundcowboy do a shinnok mirror match on esl I found myself interested and excited and just generally enjoying the character in a fight that I would have previously considered to be unbelievably boring. So after my local tourney I came home and sat down with bone shaper since it seemed the most interesting and found that I was enjoying every minute of it. It felt so right and perfect for me and made me realize that sure I like to pressure, but I also enjoy a good Midscreen and full screen game.

I don't think shinnok has enough tourney representation yet, but I do think he is worth maining. Keep in mind that I have just picked him up and am experiencing the good and the bad mu's

 

[Altsa]

Also, how do you guys use shoulder? Is that just a combo ender?

Normal shoulder is your fastest advancing punisher. If your opponent pushes you too far and you cant reach with 112 or f4 you use shoulder. For example Kotal Khans sword specials, even against Hell Sparks in the mirror match. You rather take the 9% than let your opponent do unsafe stuff for free.

 

[Kidigital]

I'm coming from a day 1 kenshi(awful) to Hollywood cassie, to Sq d'vorah, to tempest kung Lao. As a player who is looking to become competitive and enter the tourney scene I have gone through a lot of character crisis in many games looking for the one character that feels right. I always considered myself to be heavily rush down oriented and so Yung Lao seemed to be the answer I was looking for. So I played him and I learned and I grew, but something just still felt off. I had written shinnok off from the very beginning because like you said he was so incomplete. Yet a few days ago after seeing @Kidigital and woundcowboy do a shinnok mirror match on esl I found myself interested and excited and just generally enjoying the character in a fight that I would have previously considered to be unbelievably boring. So after my local tourney I came home and sat down with bone shaper since it seemed the most interesting and found that I was enjoying every minute of it. It felt so right and perfect for me and made me realize that sure I like to pressure, but I also enjoy a good Midscreen and full screen game.

I don't think shinnok has enough tourney representation yet, but I do think he is worth maining. Keep in mind that I have just picked him up and am experiencing the good and the bad mu's

Glad you enjoyed it man Good luck with your Shinnok!

 

[GS_Zodiac]

Is f41d2, 112xxdb2mb, j2, d2, f4xxbf3 for 32% the highest damage bone shaper can get in the corner?

 

[Altsa]

Is f41d2, 112xxdb2mb, j2, d2, f4xxbf3 for 32% the highest damage bone shaper can get in the corner?

If you end that with Hell Sparks instead of the shoulder you get 33%. If you end it with scoop you still get 32% and you keep your opponent in the corner.

Off of 112 into EX shoulder you get 35% into re-stand.

 

[GS_Zodiac]

If you end that with Hell Sparks instead of the shoulder you get 33%. If you end it with scoop you still get 32% and you keep your opponent in the corner.

Off of 112 into EX shoulder you get 35% into re-stand.

112 in place of the f4 after d2? how does it re-stand?

 

[Altsa]

112 in place of the f4 after d2? how does it re-stand?

I guess I should have worded that better.

What I meant was in the corner(or near the corner) hit confirm 112 into EX shoulder and follow up with NJP, ji1, f22,1+3, dark beam

 

[SPY]

You can do similar corner combo with HKD instead of restand. 112\4~exSCharge-NJP-Ji1-d2-d1~SSlam 35%.

 

[GS_Zodiac]

Going with b3 or f4 in the corner and ending with f4xxdf2 for 32-34% and a setup seems more worth it though it's high execution. I've pretty much got the timing down.

 

[GS_Zodiac]

So what are your thoughts on the Jason(relentless) mu? I find it extremely difficult to secure a win on him. It seems like all his normals have faster startup frames and the ones that don't, can't be punished by f4 and or put him out of range of my 112 string. His hard knockdown into pursuit is a curse lol. And I can't manage to poke him out of his pressure.

Any ideas?

 

[Youphemism]

Ran a pretty good set with HoneyBee the other day. Check it out if you're interested:

Good stuff! Had Honeybee faced yours or any other Bone Shapers before though? Doesn't look like he was really familiar with the matchup until nearer the end.

Man I feel sorry for other variations having to use that string.

Eh? Who uses 312?

I have a question regarding using Shinnok, purely on the basis of him as a main. Our character, yes, our character, have continued to prove to the entire MKX community that he is an amazing character to be used or even be placed in the game. However, it wasn't always like this. I remember playing Shinnok DAY 1 after I unlocked him and saying to myself "wow, this character is really good, but he is lacking something so crucial". I then come on this forum and my assumption was proven accurate -- Shinnok was an incomplete character. You could easily of seen it with the way Necromancer was used. The horrible tracking on those skeletal grab hands and the horrible placement of the flick was just enough to make an NM Shinnok main (me) go insane. After months of making him work (through tech and watching combo videos), people finally realized his main potential was to use his awesome Mimicry (which gives him the fabled vortex and a damage boost for the 3-4.5 seconds). Not only did people jump the proverbial border with this, the fact that this was combined with the air teleport, made Shinnok an incredible sight to behold.

Fast forward to the present and we still have people clamoring on about how Shinnok is indeed a much more viable character than he was before. Bone Shaper received a HUGE buff with the +8 Dark Beam on hit and how we're now allowed to do a 2 in 1 after the Judgement Day (F221+3) string. And, with improvements to the horrible tracking issues of necromancer (though, running animations or even run ins are still whiffing the flicks and grabs, something that should've been fixed immediately. Though, it isn't as bad as an issue that I'm making it out to be).

With all of this, Shinnok should be pretty set right? Shinnok purely as a main though, even with all of this, still seems to be far-fetched and I don't understand why. Shinnok is WAY too cool to miss out on the awesomeness that he brings to the table and his moveset (when finally fixed,) will show this. But, just in case he gets nerfed (like the most recent patch did to him by taking him down +10 frames down from +24 hell sparks on block, preventing the insane pressure we had to convert into something) should we start to invest in another character?

Shinnok was not "really good" day 1 lol, he was pretty much the worst character in the game.

But really? Jumping ship because of a not-that-detrimental nerf to hell sparks? Even jumping ship because you think he might get nerfed? Those would be stupid reasons to be honest. Changing character at all for any reason besides getting bored of a character is usually a pretty stupid idea, if you like a character just play them.

 

[xGunShow]

Good stuff! Had Honeybee faced yours or any other Bone Shapers before though? Doesn't look like he was really familiar with the matchup until nearer the end.

Eh? Who uses 312?

Shinnok was not "really good" day 1 lol, he was pretty much the worst character in the game.

But really? Jumping ship because of a not-that-detrimental nerf to hell sparks? Even jumping ship because you think he might get nerfed? Those would be stupid reasons to be honest. Changing character at all for any reason besides getting bored of a character is usually a pretty stupid idea, if you like a character just play them.

Thanks! I believe he's played Doctor-Stabs numerous times although Stabs plays Impostor more and is still getting the hang of Bone Shaper. Other than that, not sure who else. I'm doing my best to teach him the MU before EVO.