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Match-up Discussion Shazam Match-Up Discussion

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
@EGP Wonder_Chef
@Indecisive

Please, help me out in the Superman MU. I can't ever move.
First thing i will say is Me and Chef will have different ways of dealing with the MU. Theo and KDZ both have different Play styles. Okay so. When he fires air laser and Lasers in general you are able to teleport on reaction. It is not easy. Only do this if you have good execution. But once the superman player gets wise they will start adjusting the laser play. Block dash to get passed the laser pressure. After they a f23 breath there is a slight mix up. if they do not move you can do a HM. But if they do a f23 right after you get blown up. if they go for superman punch you can torpedo to punish it before it happens. If the backdash torpedo catches it. His WU game sucks. Breath can be stuffed out. Low scoop is not safe. and if he does the rising fly d2 him out of the sky. If you get in the corner your option is to MB F3. Dont do B3 cause the range on it sucks. if he has trait just wait. You can push block. Or you can D1 him. But there is only a 2 frame window to d1 him out of it. And if he delays it you will be punished. You have better Air normals then he does. Also learn to block Dive bomb otg set ups. Also if the superman is smart you will not be able to WU out of the corner. A lot of the game is patience and punishing. You are able to punish wiffed F23 with HM. But you need to do it fast. Also its hard to Punish lasers on the ground after teleporting through them. he recovers kinda fast. :/. hope this helps.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
First thing i will say is Me and Chef will have different ways of dealing with the MU. Theo and KDZ both have different Play styles.
Slayer too.

Like I have a positive record vs Slayer with Shazam but Theo just absolutely dominates me. To be fair Theo dominates everybody though.

EDIT: I also won a MM against that Superman from Washington at SCR, so I think it's mainly just theo bodying me.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Slayer too.

Like I have a positive record vs Slayer with Shazam but Theo just absolutely dominates me. To be fair Theo dominates everybody though.
I mainly mentioned the Big 2 that we have problems with. Since i have seen you beat Slayer easier than Theo. Like i also Have Fran to deal with But KDZ is really the one i have more issues with. More so now because KDZ is learning my tendencies as a player so i have to change things up a lot against him. We each have 2-3 Superman to deal with on our respective coasts.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Right so disclaimer: I am not a tournament player, while I would love to go to locals and be a part of the scene, college and lack of knowledge of local areas prevent me from doing so. So therefore most of my experience comes from online and while Injustice online is serviceable (at times) it does not hold a candle to the game that Injustice is offline. So do take what I say with a grain of salt as I may not be playing/facing the styles offline players will encounter. That said I love Captain Marvel and want to add what I can to the forums...

Further disclaimer: The Hawkgirl matchup is bullshit, I'm talking cartoon Texas, wild untamed west frontier bullshit. Explore counterpicks or your secondaries. Hell, pick instawin Supes to save yourself the frustration. As for me, I'm an idiot with a blind love for Captain Marvel. So if by chance you do pick Shazam...

Pick a favorable stage. My best result was with Ferris Hanger, don't give two shits what people say. Interactables are in the game so use them. For Hawkgirl aim for one with plenty of stuff to throw to blow up her generic approaches (because as decent as they are, they are simple and as one track as a slot car) preferrable one in the corner and respawns for your use.

EX: After a combo ending with MB Torpedo I ended up in the corner in the Batcave and Ferris aircraft. Both Batcar missiles and aircraft missile dealt that extra damage that seemed to blow up her wakeup. Turbine was especially fun to use at times as well. Time them to catch her out of the invincibility of her wakeup moves.

After playing a Hawkgirl online for practically 20 matches or so, I almost threw in the towel. Haha her mace charge is so annoying. But from what I can tell...

Mace Charge: Watch the range she does it at, Far range B2,1 is a weird punish. By this I mean it sometimes catches people for the first few times... but that's if they are being reckless and don't expect the punish. If for whatever reason Hawk does it up front, reversal HM. Not sure on MB Charge but it's what worked for me. A wakeup mace charge is trickier. Sometimes you can jump over and a j2 will hit her out of it, but mostly you'll just get hit. I found that a properly timed Torpedo caught her in the startup. IDK for sure what it was but hey it worked so I'm not complaining. The real easy way out I feel is a meter burned b3. However keep in mind that MB Mace Charge blows that up so watch her meter bar as well as yours. What I also found is that his weird Teleport property works here as well. So if you can time it, teleport through it. Don't know about punishment yet... working on that.

Flight: Watch what the Hawk does in flight. The few that I've fought that used her above average, used her divekick a lot. While it may seem hard to reach her. J1 worked wonders for me. Just be patient and watch what she does. If she doesn't have meter or does not use her Mace throw MB, meter burn B3 to catch the Dive. If you can position the 3 part of B23 seems to catch her a lot. But B23 is a bad habit to get into so I digress.

j D2: Fuck this moves chip and advantage seriously. Meter burn B3. If you can properly use it, time Shazam's D2 to hit her as I caught her a few times. Try backdashing if you can to make her whiff and then punish her for it. Not sure on whiff recovery for the move, but on block the Hawk's I've fought Mace Charged right after so be wary of that.

Mace Throw: Seriously the one I fought rarely used this outside of MB. However whiff punish it hard. It's high so you can duck the ground one, so duck then Torpedo provided Hawk does not have meter. If the Hawk is in the air just dash it, it's pathetically slow. Just keep in mind, Hawk's position for the punish after you avoid that laughable mace projectile.

Notes: Hawk's super is overhead, not a throw and/or regular hit. It's half decent unlike the garbage that is Shazam's. I believe it also leaves her airborne so think Superman but overhead I guess.

Strings: I rarely see these used but if they even start a string for some reason at a distance, torpedo them. MB if you can to put you near a throwable interactable. I can't say much as I don't have much experience with them. I want to think they are backdashable but I don't know for sure. Block high for the most part, her lows chain are telegraphed and most of her strings generally start or the 2nd hit will be Overhead save for one 2nd hit which is the low chain. Punish gaps if you can with HM or just sweep her.
Doing a redux of this matchup. I don't give number simply because I don't know how to. But to go over the tools again.
Power stages which I define as ones where there is a lot of stuff for you to throw are still your best friend in the matchup. Her distance through Mace Charge is limited and Mace Throw slow enough that often I hit the interactable for full damage even though getting hit out of it.

Mace Charge: I am hesitant to recommend the reversal HM this time around. A slight walk backwards puts her out of range and it does not seem consistent enough for me. Yomi/Wakeup read j2 can still catch her depending on distance but I still think Atlas Torpedo is more consistent. This is for more close to medium range. If you are at far range and your opponent is stupid chuck Bolt of Zeus for free chip or hit them out of the charge. There is whiff recovery I believe on the mace charge so distance favoring you, go for b2,3 or whatever variation you feel comfortable with.

Flight: Honestly I sometimes think this is a gimmick. Nothing from flight can consistently hit you that is not avoidable on reaction. Her mace is too slow and cannot change angles like other annoying projectiles. Mace Charge from flight is not Zod charge, if she hits you with it because you are jumping silly take the damage because you deserve that. Be patient. Force her to go into flight with Bolt when she does, j1 or j2 whichever you feel like doing. I have yet to test j3 but fingers crossed it works. If you are a timing god, d2 can hit her out of the divekick or if she tries to go behind/on top of you. Her approaches are limited and you want to lull the Hawkgirl into think she is safe then catch her with your jumping normals which are really good. If she is in flight but closer to the ground chuck bolts or try for Atals Torpedo if you are feeling risky.

Dive...boots?: Right so I am guessing this move has no whiff recovery. Still better to backdash if you are not confident with your d2 timing or feel like MB b/f 3.

Other than that I feel that my analysis is still the same. Her mace projectile is garbage but as can be said for Shazam, Hawkgirl with meter is a force to be reckoned with.

The main thing I feel is almost treating the approach like how you approach Bane. THERE. IS. NO. REASON. TO. RUSH. IN. Shazam's rushdown is not Batman, Flash, Grundy, or any other close range characters level. He has to adapt and play his mediocre zoning game if he wants the win. You have a projectile, use it. Her answer is to fly which your signal to j2 and get a full combo.

I'm pretty sure the Shazam mains here know this. But eh for the occasional newer player wandering through TYM and I feel silly during my original approach to the matchup and wanted to correct that.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Zatanna a character rarely seen although I don't know why, seems to be annoying matchup for Shazam... I'll just post my thoughts. If you have a different approach or more successful tactic please post!

Approach: Walk forward and block. Dash in or teleport through only on confident reads only. MB Puppet Master, MB Linking Ring or regular for that matter, dive kick, 52 card pickup catch you really well unless you are prepared. But a lot of stuff she has is punishable. Block high.

General: Her normals seem lackluster... but I'm playing Shazam so I don't know what a good normal move is. But she doesn't seems to have a decent low that is not telegraphed or is not punishable with reversal HM/AC. But mainly block High, puppet master is mid, dive kick is overhead as well as MB fireball. You have no reason to block low and many many many reasons to block high. Most Zatannas I have played generally zone which is pretty decent. Her ring can change trajectory so be prepared.

Thriller/ I mean puppet master: Hits mid. Primarily used to catch recovery of teleport. Or to catch you dashing forward too much. MB is a threat. Non MB is a gimmick. MB gets Zatanna free teleport in to build decent meter back and full combo.

Jump: Zatanna's jump seems really floaty and free for air to air j2. Although that could be the fault of the Zatanna's I have been playing for jumping like crazy. j3 seems only scary in combos although the hitbox is cool on Zatanna's j3 I haven't seen it used well. Seems really easy to d2 her for crap.

Yoga Sphere/Fire Kiss EX: The EX flame ball she has seems to be a joke. It's a wannabe Zod ball granted you don't teleport right into Zatanna's From The Deep special thing. I don't know why they waste meter on this since it is only one hit and there is no projectile clash in Injustice... I say keep your distance and beware of teleport behind you. The annoying part is how it lasts so long but eh.

Linking Rings: At first I was very very pessimistic about this fireball. However I think it is more gimmicky. Yes it hits mid and MB hits overhead however the recovery is really long. You can teleport through it and provided you are not 80% of the screen away from her she cannot Smoke and Mirrors/mind control you. However time your jumps. Zatanna can control the arc of the ring for a good distance. Jump too early and she can just make it travel upwards. Never crouch since the MB is overhead. Measure distance to punish the recovery. Heck I think Bolt of Zeus recovers faster than her fireball.

Multi Kick: Safe on block and... it multi hits... duh. Don't showboat using armor on her wakeup unless you are 100% sure. Whiff is really laggy however so correct spacing can net you a HM possibly. I haven't seen this move much except outside of combos so I can't say. Probably get this stuff laters.

Card Throw: IDK what this is for but they should leave it just for combos. This crap is hella punishable, you can't seem to move at all until well after blockstun is gone for the opponent. Annoying on hit since it pushes back and Shazam has to deal with zoning again.

Smoke and Mirrors: IDK what this is for but it seems like a gimmick. I just HM or AT and it seems to catch them. It just hides the character model but the illusion stops pretty fast. IDK what this is used for since it seemed useless.

Teleport: Good on wakeup. Decent far to mid range run away. Bad up close, you can catch the startup although she does do a LOT of side to side mixups with this. Be prepared for dealing with neutral game and zoning a lot.

Float: The float she does in the air seems really silly but it is a good bait. She can teleport out of it and dive kick as well. Be prepared with a j2 or just backdash if she tries anything silly against you.
 
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EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
So against Batgirl, after an AC knockdown it looks like we can empty jump forward, then if she cartwheels we can whiff punish with HM, and if she teleports we have time to block and punish.

This loses to Flying Bat though...
 

SZSR

Champion
@shinobispectre
@pogse
@TKT ZigZag
@imblackjames
@EGP Wonder_Chef
@mfkaoz
@Indecisive
@Digit
@RNLDRGN

@The Rest of the Shazam Army


Updated the MU #s in the OP. I kind of garnered them from an average between what you guys have said. Please let me know if anything stands out as very wrong, these are all subject to discussion.

I put some numbers at 5 -5 (like Cyborg) because it doesn't sound like the community has a consensus at all in these MUs.

Other character mains who happen on this post, if you find disagreement with the #s, please discuss the MU within this thread.

Indecisive:
Batman (Even)
Scorpion (Advantage)
Flash (Disadvantage)
Bane (Advantage)
Green Lantern (Very Disadvantage)

Heroic_Legacy:
Green Lantern (Very Disadvantage)
Nightwing (Very Disadvantage)
Flash (Disadvantage)
Batman (Even)

Wonder Chef:
Aquaman (Disadvantage)
Ares (Advantage)
Bane (Advantage)
Batgirl (Even)
Batman (Even)
Black Adam(Even)
Cyborg (Advantage)
Doomsday (Advantage)
Harley Quinn (Even)
Hawkgirl (Advantage)
Joker (Advantage)
Killer Frost (Even)
Martian Manhunter (Even)
Sinestro (Even)
Wonder Woman (Even)
Zod (Even)

imblackjames:
Black Adam (Even)
Superman (Even)
 
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Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
@shinobispectre
@pogse
@TKT ZigZag
@imblackjames
@EGP Wonder_Chef
@mfkaoz
@Indecisive
@Digit
@RNLDRGN

@The Rest of the Shazam Army


Updated the MU #s in the OP. I kind of garnered them from an average between what you guys have said. Please let me know if anything stands out as very wrong, these are all subject to discussion.

I put some numbers at 5 -5 (like Cyborg) because it doesn't sound like the community has a consensus at all in these MUs.

Other character mains who happen on this post, if you find disagreement with the #s, please discuss the MU within this thread.
We definitely Beat Scorpion. I think we go even with Batman. We Lose to the Flash. And im going to say it. We beat bane. Ya thats right i said it.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
@shinobispectre
@pogse
@TKT ZigZag
@imblackjames
@EGP Wonder_Chef
@mfkaoz
@Indecisive
@Digit
@RNLDRGN

@The Rest of the Shazam Army


Updated the MU #s in the OP. I kind of garnered them from an average between what you guys have said. Please let me know if anything stands out as very wrong, these are all subject to discussion.

I put some numbers at 5 -5 (like Cyborg) because it doesn't sound like the community has a consensus at all in these MUs.

Other character mains who happen on this post, if you find disagreement with the #s, please discuss the MU within this thread.
ALSO Shazam Goes 10-0 Against Shazam. Fix that please.
 

SZSR

Champion
We definitely Beat Scorpion. I think we go even with Batman. We Lose to the Flash. And im going to say it. We beat bane. Ya thats right i said it.
Any points of contention with the rest of them?

Also smh with the Shazam - Shazam 10 -0 MU.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Any points of contention with the rest of them?

Also smh with the Shazam - Shazam 10 -0 MU.
Except for me thinking lantern is a 3-7. I have nothing else to say. But i know for a fact we beat Scorpion. Just D2. Trust me thats all you really have to do .
 

pogse

Ruthlesss Mayhem
Revolver says it might be even.
might be if the Lex has lex experience with shazam MU.

zone > armor (bait anything from shazam [then combo > reset full screen] if not > zone) > 3 > jump back (wait) > trait back up > repeat. I'm sure there is a lot more.

kinda same idea when GL is fighting shazam, if the GL opts to rush down/get in then the numbers change but if the GL realizes he can just zone then everything goes in his favor.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
might be if the Lex has lex experience with shazam MU.

zone > armor (bait anything from shazam [then combo > reset full screen] if not > zone) > 3 > jump back (wait) > trait back up > repeat. I'm sure there is a lot more.

kinda same idea when GL is fighting shazam, if the GL opts to rush down/get in then the numbers change but if the GL realizes he can just zone then everything goes in his favor.
Shazam can get past Lex's Zoning. As for the Armor try doing b123. Its really Fast.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Indecisive:
Batman (Even)
Scorpion (Advantage)
Flash (Disadvantage)
Bane (Advantage)
Green Lantern (Very Disadvantage)

Heroic_Legacy:
Green Lantern (Very Disadvantage)
Nightwing (Very Disadvantage)
Flash (Disadvantage)
Batman (Even)

Wonder Chef:
Aquaman (Disadvantage)
Ares (Advantage)
Bane (Advantage)
Batgirl (Even)
Batman (Even)
Black Adam(Even)
Cyborg (Advantage)
Doomsday (Advantage)
Harley Quinn (Even)
Hawkgirl (Advantage)
Joker (Advantage)
Killer Frost (Even)
Martian Manhunter (Even)
Sinestro (Even)
Wonder Woman (Even)
Zod (Even)

imblackjames:
Black Adam (Even)
Superman (Even)[/spoiler]
Right so I'm just posting my thoughts. Curious to hear other opinions.
In my opinion Batman and Zod are leaning towards Disadvantage.
Batman controls the battles so well with trait bats but dies on knockdown. I give the knockdown point to Shazam but Batman's normals and multitude of ways controlling how Shazam approaches the match seems like it would lean towards his favor.
Zod's zoning is red herring. Yes I believe it is good but his trait and interactable control are what amplify to become so much better. One of my favorite things about Shazam is his interactable usage but Zod just outright controls it better than Shazam when it comes to interactables.

I'm surprised at Aquaman being at disadvantage. Do his normals really mess Shazam up that much? I feel like he is similar to Batman but with something more reliable to control the pace of the match. I'm not sure where this match goes because it nevers seems to end well when I see Shazam's vs Aquaman. I also believe Theo does not like this match at all. However Water Shield is a tool that seems to work really well but I have not worked around with it much.

Wonder Woman I used to think was disadvantageous. However now I just run away and chuck Bolts. It seems to change when forcing Wonder Woman to make the approach rather than having to deal with Shazam rushing in. I'm not sure where it falls but most likely due to the annoying traits power floating characters have in this game it might be her advantage.

Similar to Wonder Woman is Superman. I think disadvantage due to zoning, damage, setups, and normals. But I am curious to hear the new arguments for it being even.

Sinestro seems like it would be disadvantage. I guess a lack of player prevent this matchup from fleshing out.

Black Adam might be slight disadvantage. He 's doesn't really have a safe approach, not that I believe. But his normals and damage output, meter zoning seem to hurt Shazam.
 

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
How in god's name am i supposed to fight superman. I cant zone with him and f2 stops me from dashing or trying to torpedo in. I'm just being kept out and bodied hard on punishes here, what's the meta?
 
How in god's name am i supposed to fight superman. I cant zone with him and f2 stops me from dashing or trying to torpedo in. I'm just being kept out and bodied hard on punishes here, what's the meta?
You sorta gotta get in then and walk in.. Then command grab or be jump active