Scorpion Sucks, Scorpion Rules - Lets Complain Here

[Slips]

It actually proves (my) point; I rephrase it for better understanding:

If a character has bad/worst match up against top tier and/or popular character(s), then he/she is a character which is not suited for competitive play.



And why placement of prominent and skilled (arguably the best) player of particular character does not proves anything? It’s the result, which is undeniable and it is pretty solid indication by itself (whole statistic based around that principle).

To be more to the subject: how many Scorpions we saw at top 8 at any past majors including EVO? How about none.
Statistically speaking (and from a common sense stand point), it proves that Scorpion as a character does not have what it takes to win in competition, which is the whole point of this thread.





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You aren't listening man. Kitana is Scorp's worst match-up, but its not unwinnable. I narrowly lost against Konqrr and me and 16 Bit go back and forth all the time. It just wasn't my day.

We haven't seen Sector get in a top 8 at a major either. Does that make him trash too? Is Sonya not competitive? There hasn't been any Smoke to get top 8 since otg smoke bomb, I guess he sucks too right? Stop being so cynical.

Evo had over 500 participants, I got in the top 32. Its a pretty good bet that at least 1 of the previous majors where it was just 100+r I could've gotten top 8. I played a number of top players at Evo as well in casuals, nobody dominated my Scorpion to the point it seemed like he couldn't compete.

But hey I guess you know Scorpion better than me. lol

 

[Lyuben]

You aren't listening man. Kitana is Scorp's worst match-up, but its not unwinnable. I narrowly lost against Konqrr and me and 16 Bit go back and forth all the time. It just wasn't my day.

We haven't seen Sector get in a top 8 at a major either. Does that make him trash too? Is Sonya not competitive? There hasn't been any Smoke to get top 8 since otg smoke bomb, I guess he sucks too right? Stop being so cynical.

Evo had over 500 participants, I got in the top 32. Its a pretty good bet that at least 1 of the previous majors where it was just 100+r I could've gotten top 8. I played a number of top players at Evo as well in casuals, nobody dominated my Scorpion to the point it seemed like he couldn't compete.

But hey I guess you know Scorpion better than me. lol

Hey look its the guy everyone has been using as evidence of scorp not sucking. Isn't it awkward now.

But seriously, you are right. I hope this thread can end now.

 

[Crathen]

Slips spoke! /end thread

But seriously guys , scorpion is a good character and viable for tournaments ( and winning them ) , be patient , know your matchup , always punish for max damage and do reaction-viable things

PS: Slips i really enjoyed your scorpion ESPECIALLY that 33 spear on the nightwolfs EX shoulder , that's how good players should be and think!

 

[cgerrr]

You aren't listening man. Kitana is Scorp's worst match-up, but its not unwinnable. I narrowly lost against Konqrr and me and 16 Bit go back and forth all the time. It just wasn't my day.

We haven't seen Sector get in a top 8 at a major either. Does that make him trash too? Is Sonya not competitive? There hasn't been any Smoke to get top 8 since otg smoke bomb, I guess he sucks too right? Stop being so cynical.

Evo had over 500 participants, I got in the top 32. Its a pretty good bet that at least 1 of the previous majors where it was just 100+r I could've gotten top 8. I played a number of top players at Evo as well in casuals, nobody dominated my Scorpion to the point it seemed like he couldn't compete.

But hey I guess you know Scorpion better than me. lol

So, you counter point to my arguments is? I only see emotions, ‘feelings’ and assumptions, while I stated the facts. Guess what are more credible.

I respect you Slips, but it’s not about only about you: please reread my prev. post.


As for your last sarcastic remark: yes I don’t have access to offline competition (I’m not so lucky as you and other EVO competitors), however I’m a combo builder (built my share of not-useless-MK combos already) – and for that you need to know quite a bit about character you building combo with. And I know more than half of a cast on that level, thus in my opinion your remark about me is not really appropriate.

P.s. Just a friendly advice, Slips: play other more high-tier characters with the same dedication as Scorpion – you will see positive changes in results immediately.





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[Crathen]

Maybe not enough good players don't play scorpion so that's why only 1 scorpion placed top 32?

Then again having a couple of bad matchups against the most used characters ( to a 4-6 extent , not talking about 3-7 or 2-8 ) doesnt actually mean anything

Which characters did we see in the top 16??
Sub Zero, Reptile, Smoke, Mileena, Kitana, Jax, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kabal, Shang Tsung, and Raiden.
I think it says something if Jax is better than Scorpion.
The Jax player beat Online Tony, who in turn [Online Tony] beats Michelangelo.
Amazing stuff.

S tier thinking right there , that proves nothing aside from the players lack of matchup knowledge nor says the better player

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.

So how does a 4-6 matchup make a character utter garbage?Heck , being aware on how to face a 4-6 matchup might turn the results if the opponent doesn't adapt fast and even adapting can be baited by a good player.

 

[cgerrr]

So how does a 4-6 matchup make a character utter garbage?Heck , being aware on how to face a 4-6 matchup might turn the results if the opponent doesn't adapt fast and even adapting can be baited by a good player.

First of all it’s only assumptions that Scorpion match ups against top tiers are 4-6: it may be worse. And if you do not understand how bad match ups against top tiers and popular chars makes a character bad in competitive play, then I have nothing to say to you, except maybe check your logic, no offence.






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[THTB]

This game is too matchup-intensive. Some characters see play because they have some of the better matchups vs top tier.

 

[Crathen]

First of all it’s only assumptions that Scorpion match ups against top tiers are 4-6: it may be worse. And if you do not understand how bad match ups against top tiers and popular chars makes a character bad in competitive play, then I have nothing to say to you, except maybe check your logic, no offence._

No offence , just trying to get some constructive criticism here , but up there ya just assumed that matchups could be worse and i could assume they might be better , assuming doesn't help.
You seem trying to make look every Scorpion vs high tier/most used characters like vanilla SF4 Sagat vs Zangief , wich they are not , if ya are so rigid about matchups numbers then why did REO's Mileena even reset the score at EVO vs PL's Kung Lao? REO did make really good points explaining why Mileena is like 3-7 ( may be 4-6 imho ) , what gives?

And don't worry , i know what i'm talking about , i attend to offline (Tekken related and soon MK9 when we get a chance here in Italy ) tournaments and use my time to learn a lot about the matchups ( and Tekken has HUGE amount of technicism ) , so yeah my logic is fine , no offense taken.

 

[CptXecution]

This thread is still going on? God this is funny.

 

[cgerrr]

…assuming doesn't help.

Yep, you've got it right. That’s why I said that your numbers (4-6) are unjustified.

You seem trying to make look every Scorpion vs high tier/most used characters like vanilla SF4 Sagat vs Zangief , wich they are not , if ya are so rigid about matchups numbers then why did REO's Mileena even reset the score at EVO vs PL's Kung Lao?

First off all we are talking about Scorpion here: leave the other character discussion to corresponding threads.

Where did I say that mentioned Scorpion match ups are comparable to ‘vanilla SF4 Sagat vs Zangief’ – you’re assuming thing. And what about me ‘being rigid about match ups numbers’ – you’re assuming things again.

Btw, what did you say about assumptions, oh yeah: ‘assuming doesn't help’.


Additionally, you avoided my previous point (about not understanding why bad match ups against top tiers are bad for a character). Not really constructive approach, is it?
Not to start a flame war, but there are too many contradictions in your arguments, which is not really convincing, do you think?

Aside from that, all my arguments still stand.



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[Crathen]

Now let me get this straight , you replied to Osu16:

It's ridiculous to say Slips' placement proves something. He lost to two Kitana's, his worst matchup.

It actually proves (my) point; I rephrase it for better understanding:

If a character has bad/worst match up against top tier and/or popular character(s), then he/she is a character which is not suited for competitive play.

And i've said that this does not make a character not being able to compete , fighting games are not like mathematic (where 2+2=4) , fighting games are situational ( ask any high level player from any fighting game )

OT question: I'll ask you once more for the sake of your "point" , then why a Mileena placed top 2 and even won 3 matches against a so bad matchup like Kung Lao?

And why placement of prominent and skilled (arguably the best) player of particular character does not proves anything? It’s the result, which is undeniable and it is pretty solid indication by itself (whole statistic based around that principle)

Because it doesn't prove nothing , as i said ( and others will agree ) fighting games are situational and its not math.

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.

Then again having a couple of bad matchups against the most used characters ( to a 4-6 extent , not talking about 3-7 or 2-8 ) doesnt actually mean anything

And by anything i mean the ability of the player to overcome the hard part of the matchup and hence by fighting games being situational there is always room for the win ( that's why i said not talking about 3-7 or harder matchups ) and to my knowlledge Scorpion doesn't have 3-7 matchups , mind giving me those matchups in your opinion?

If a character has bad/worst match up against top tier and/or popular character(s), then he/she is a character which is not suited for competitive play.

You seem trying to make look every Scorpion vs high tier/most used characters like vanilla SF4 Sagat vs Zangief , wich they are not

Where did I say that mentioned Scorpion match ups are comparable to ‘vanilla SF4 Sagat vs Zangief’

Again , being not suited doesn't mean that the Scorpion player can't be competitive at high level play and win the bad matchups , it's just a ( i'll add slight ) uphill battle that can be overcomed.

what about me ‘being rigid about match ups numbers’ – you’re assuming things again.

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.

I guess you are talking about Scorpion since we are in a Scorpion thread right?

Btw, what did you say about assumptions, oh yeah: ‘assuming doesn't help’.

Exactly , saying that most used/top tier characters assuming that they cannot be beaten by a smart Scorpion player is just downright rushedthinking.

Additionally, you avoided my previous point (about not understanding why bad match ups against top tiers are bad for a character). Not really constructive approach, is it?

I understand and i agree with having high tier/most used characters bad matchups is a bad thing for the character in a tournament prospective and still you do not factor the most important thing ( the Scorpion player ) wich can overcome the match with all Scorpions tools ( teleport and EX teleport , 111 blockstring , mixups both safe and unsafe ones , hellfire , spear and EX spear , airthrow , true resets after combos , good damage , EX hellfire setups off combos or airthrows ) by playing smart wich makes Scorpion a viable tournament character ( and winning ). I give my constuctive since i've entered the FGC , mind giving yours?

Not to start a flame war, but there are too many contradictions in your arguments, which is not really convincing, do you think?

How about now?Did i explained myself good enough?My arguments are solid and comes from tournament experience when all you are saying is "since Scorpion has some problems with hightier/most used characters he's not tournament viable and cannot win a tournament teorically assuming the same skill level among players", then again i don't see how i contraddict myself saying that a bad matchup is still bad for a character but that doesn't make the player majorly unable to overcome the matches in this case with Scorpion,

Anyways , no harsh , but this thread isn't going anywhere , if we want to discuss more in depth about Scorpion we should do that in the matchup thread.

(Btw my bad , huge wall of text )

 

[Slips]

So, you counter point to my arguments is? I only see emotions, ‘feelings’ and assumptions, while I stated the facts. Guess what are more credible.

I respect you Slips, but it’s not about only about you: please reread my prev. post.


As for your last sarcastic remark: yes I don’t have access to offline competition (I’m not so lucky as you and other EVO competitors), however I’m a combo builder (built my share of not-useless-MK combos already) – and for that you need to know quite a bit about character you building combo with. And I know more than half of a cast on that level, thus in my opinion your remark about me is not really appropriate.

P.s. Just a friendly advice, Slips: play other more high-tier characters with the same dedication as Scorpion – you will see positive changes in results immediately.





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lol who's getting emotional? My counter point to your argument is that your wrong. There are no feelings, I was giving you facts. I was the highest placing Scorpion at Evo, thats a fact. I played multiple top placing players at EVO with their respective top tier characters, thats a fact. None of them beat me to the point where the match-up seemed unwinnable, thats a fact.

You were not there. Fact.

You wouldn't know. Fact.

Tournament player high level tested gameplay > Combo builder theory fighter. Fact.

So I don't get where your getting these 'feelings' and assumptions from. I only see combo builders having the ability to find out how to squeeze the most damage off of an opponent flying through the air, while I and other tournament players know match-ups based on gameplay experience at a high level. Guess what are more credible.

I respect you cgerr, but its not about your pretty combos and you sitting at your computer studying tourney results after a few months of the game being out: please re-read the definition of credibility.

Whats not appropriate is someone sitting in their living room playing armchair quarterback and hasn't proven anything to tell players who actually go to tournaments and actually play the game what the facts are between match-ups and what aren't.

P.s. Just a friendly advice, cgerr: play in tournaments with the same dedication as you do with your combo videos - you will see positive changes in results of people respecting your opinion immediately.





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[THTB]

Also, a fun fact, Perfect Legend, Michaelangelo, myself, and a select number of other tournament players that went to EVO do not have that much access to competition offline. Hell, me and Perfect Legend are one of the few people in Ohio that play MK9 competitively, and we live on the opposite sides of the state.

 

[cgerrr]

Ok, Slips, it seems you’ve become much less friendly and tolerant since EVO, thus I have nothing to say to you in response on your unreasonable lashing, which is prime example of arrogant and condescending attitude of tourney/offline players towards less lucky members of the community. Way to go, way to go…

However, aside from me being ‘armchair quarterback’ you have nothing on the simple unchangeable fact:

There are ZERO Scorpions in the top 8 of any past major and there are ZERO Scorpions in the top16 of EVO – you included. And I don’t need to prove myself to anyone to state that simple fact and being right with that argument.

Also, a fun fact, Perfect Legend, Michaelangelo, myself, and a select number of other tournament players that went to EVO do not have that much access to competition offline. Hell, me and Perfect Legend are one of the few people in Ohio that play MK9 competitively, and we live on the opposite sides of the state.

Ok, nice, props to you. But I live in Ukraine (I bet you don’t even know where it’s located without googlemaps) and have fun finding anyone playing MK or any other next gen console exclusive fighting game in the whole 50 000 000 country. Oh, and have fun working 2-3 years without eating to collect enough funds to go to EVO.





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[JimmyClimax]

All I can say is for people to practice, look some people don't have the ability to get to a local scene. They only have a friend or two that are seriously into MK with them. For example, Swift Tom Hanks lives near me, but without a car its as good as states away. So I cannot go to his place when he has other mk players over. Sometimes people have better tools to practice with. Some people have trouble with things that Slips may be able to do because someone showed him or tipped him in a direction to (not saying that is why is Scorp is great) all I am saying is that there is no need to go on a forum and bash each other. If we are all Scorp players, we should all be helping each other get better.

 

[princemurphy]

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy into the people who posted that Scorpion players just need to learn to play Scorpion better.
I already posted examples of things I was doing, if there are better things than abusing the safe jump and his 50/50s, then please enlighten us.

Anyone who wants to play me, I live in Philadelphia. It's a nice central hub for north east players.
I'll probably win with my Reptile, Ermac, or whatever, and lose with Scorpion like always.

If you are abusing the safe jump and 50/50 and losing, then you aren't making your opponent guess wrong. Mindgames is where you have to get better. It's as simple as that. Make em think low, go overhead and vice versa. Level up on that part and you'll win a lot more with scorpion

 

[yungmoney4418]

Wtf this thread is still alive? I thought it would be dead after what slips showed us what scorpion can do

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[Kryogenic]

Ok, Slips, it seems you’ve become much less friendly and tolerant since EVO, thus I have nothing to say to you in response on your unreasonable lashing, which is prime example of arrogant and condescending attitude of tourney/offline players towards less lucky members of the community. Way to go, way to go…

However, aside from me being ‘armchair quarterback’ you have nothing on the simple unchangeable fact:

There are ZERO Scorpions in the top 8 of any past major and there are ZERO Scorpions in the top16 of EVO – you included. And I don’t need to prove myself to anyone to state that simple fact and being right with that argument.





Ok, nice, props to you. But I live in Ukraine (I bet you don’t even know where it’s located without googlemaps) and have fun finding anyone playing MK or any other next gen console exclusive fighting game in the whole 50 000 000 country. Oh, and have fun working 2-3 years without eating to collect enough funds to go to EVO.





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C'mon, man. Let it go.

He tried to explain himself but you popped back with empty crap. He reiterated his point to illustrate that he does in fact know what he's talking about and you get offended and try to insult his knowledge of geography, which has nothing to do with MK.

I'm not trying to junk ride Slips. heh Slips ridin' hahaha

I write for a video game site and no I'll never tell anyone on this site which one because we've got enough angry know-it-all gamers that post vitriolic comments on every article. We don't need new ones.

Everyone thinks they know everything about everything and their opinions are more valid than others. It's a little old. People who get paid to play games, whether for competition or journalism, have invested more time and analytical thought into the games than recreational players who claim to know more about them.

It's a matter of professionalism. How would you feel if you worked as a furniture maker and some random guy off the street comes in and starts telling you that he knows better than you how to make furniture because he owns a couch and sits on it all day?

Most of you guys need to take it down a few. Knowing is a road block to learning and you can't learn if you think you know it all.

 

[GGA soonk]

If you are abusing the safe jump and 50/50 and losing, then you aren't making your opponent guess wrong. Mindgames is where you have to get better. It's as simple as that. Make em think low, go overhead and vice versa. Level up on that part and you'll win a lot more with scorpion

Can't your opponent just block the jump in punch, fuzzy block low for a couple of frames then back to standing to shut down all mixup attempts? So now you're eating a punish every time or only getting in a throw or takedown.

 

[princemurphy]

Can't your opponent just block the jump in punch, fuzzy block low for a couple of frames then back to standing to shut down all mixup attempts? So now you're eating a punish every time or only getting in a throw or takedown.

Nope. Its a true 50/50. You cant Fuzzy guard it. IF you can, that just means the person doing the 50/50 was late on the inputs.

 

[cgerrr]

@Kryogenic

So you barge in and call unreasonable insulting/elitism – ‘reiteration of points’. Moreover, undeniable facts and logical conclusions are apparently an ‘empty crap’ by your definition. Then you pick my words, bend them and put it in my mouth out of context. And then you proceed to preaching how people need to learn before talking,

which is completely irrelevant when someone posts solid undeniable facts.

I give you 3 out of 10: to obvious. At least you didn’t color your text in green.




Ok, this thread derailed too much from OP and at this point it pretty much useless to try to establish any form of constructive discussion: to many green fellas and haters.

I’m out of here.





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[THTB]

Ok, nice, props to you. But I live in Ukraine (I bet you don’t even know where it’s located without googlemaps) and have fun finding anyone playing MK or any other next gen console exclusive fighting game in the whole 50 000 000 country. Oh, and have fun working 2-3 years without eating to collect enough funds to go to EVO.

Isn't Ukraine, like, in eastern Europe? Complete shot in the dark, btw. That's about all I know...heard of the country, but that's as far as my knowledge goes.

 

[Warplay]

90% of Scorpion players are just so damn predictable. He has the tools to be a great character if people would learn his ins and outs of his moveset, while mixing up their game.

 

[SpyderJ]

@Kryogenic

So you barge in and call unreasonable insulting/elitism – ‘reiteration of points’. Moreover, undeniable facts and logical conclusions are apparently an ‘empty crap’ by your definition. Then you pick my words, bend them and put it in my mouth out of context. And then you proceed to preaching how people need to learn before talking,

which is completely irrelevant when someone posts solid undeniable facts.

I give you 3 out of 10: to obvious. At least you didn’t color your text in green.

Ok, this thread derailed too much from OP and at this point it pretty much useless to try to establish any form of constructive discussion: to many green fellas and haters.

I’m out of here.
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Dear god, ive never seen someone so adamant and dead set on not listening to anyone that doesnt agree with them. Then instead of being the bigger man, you have to insult the
people that wernt wronging you in any way, who merely were attempting to make their points, and finaly leave. Which granted, its good that your gone but damn dude, you need
a life. These guys know what theyre talking about, theory crafting only goes so far, and experience makes up for ALOT. However to you experience meens elitism. Well hopefuly a
better thread will be created for this and Cgerrr wont feel the need to involve himself into it. Or at least we can hope, all we can ask for is for people to have any open mind on
situations, but it seems pretty difficult for some.

 

[Slips]

Can't your opponent just block the jump in punch, fuzzy block low for a couple of frames then back to standing to shut down all mixup attempts? So now you're eating a punish every time or only getting in a throw or takedown.

There's no way you can fuzzy guard Scorp's mix-up. b2 and f+4 are a difference of 1 frame. You gotta be pretty godlike to fuzzy guard to the frame. Mere human error as the aggressor putting the mix-up on can screw up a fuzzy guard that tight.