Scorpion Sucks, Scorpion Rules - Lets Complain Here

[GGA soonk]

I think the coding makes tweaking wake up attacks impossible, but there is no reason they can't add invincibility for X frames where X is the number required for Scorpion to leave the screen for an EX teleport. It would be a shame having to spend meter evey wakeup, though.

vilen, I don't want faster teleport for anti zoning, I just want to get off the screen before getting hit out every time in the corner. Armor would fix that, too, but then you're required to spend meter. Just trying to find the balanced solution here.

And you're not kidding about imbalance. Game is still new, though, hopefully it all gets worked out.

 

[PimpUigi]

Do I think its silly that Scorp's whiffed spear takes him 10 goddamn years to be able to block again while Cyrax has his net? A similar move that does twice as much damage, cannot be ducked, hard to jump, and even harder to punish on block? gtfoh

Do I think its retarded that every character in the friggin game has at least one safe special move except Scorpion? Yup!

But we gotta look at the positives too. Scorpion is probably 2nd or 3rd in punishment ability. He hits extremely hard. Above average zoning. And you gotta admit, nobody besides maybe cage does combos that go over 35% that reset into another 50/50 to where you could lose another 35%.

Mileena also has combos that do 37% and end in a 50/50 with her crossing them up, similar to how Reptile has combos that do 38% and then he can throw a slow force ball to create a reset opportunity, and how he has a combo that does 41% and gives him a free crossup to 50/50 and free pressure.

Scorpion isn't special, and he doesn't really hit harder than anyone else in the cast.
I can land Mileena's overhead on a grounded opponent and net 34% damage plus a reset.
She has a beast wakeup ball that punishes you for for 24% plus a reset.

She also has better mind games than Scorpion.

So, Scorpion, from my point of view, has average punishing. Thankfully.
Very below average zoning though, as Jody showed us. Any time you tried to teleport, he says "thanks for the free combo". He was doing moves to you on your wakeup he knew he would recover from in time to hit you out of your teleport as you came from the other side of the screen.

Everyone knows that if you successfully jump hellfire, you get a free projectile or body projectile, or worse depending on the character. That means Smoke gets about 27% or more if he jumped your hellfire. That means Ermac can score over 30% (forgot the exact number) and Mileena will get 24% plus her reset.

Plus hellfire loses out on the tougher projectile matchups, like Mileenas air sais, Kitanas Fans, Kano knives, Kabal gas balls, etc.

Scorpion is a very below average zoner. I actually find Johnny Cage to zone slightly better, and that's just pathetic. He even gets a free out with :enShadow Kick.

 

[Slips]

The difference between Mileena and Reptile getting a reset after their combos is that they aren't really resets. They are tricks to confuse your opponent on which way direction they have to input their wake-ups attacks. Once they get used to your set ups and cross ups they'll know to either a) roll or b) know which direction to do a wake-up move to counter. So you have to yield your offense sometimes.

Scorpion's reset literally give the opponent no option at all. You can opt to take the launching 50/50 mix-up, pressure string, throw, or safe 50/50. There's no option to roll or wake-up attack. Thats a BIG difference.

So in that regard, yes, Scorpion is special.

If Scorpion has 1 bar of meter, he tags an extra 8% off his combos. So he can either opt to do a reset, or opt to take over 40%. His combo off jump punch does 48%. There's not a lot of characters that do the same.

I don't know why your comparing Scorpion to Mileena. I never said he was better than Mileena.

Nor Kung Lao. lol

You definition of punishment must also be different than mine.

lol I like how you use 1 vid of me losing as evidence that Scorpion has bad zoning. First of all, its Kung Lao...NOBODY can outzone Kung Lao except maybe Raiden. Secondly, just because I lost doesn't mean it was the character's flaws that made it happen. Jody has a great Kung Lao, but when we play I win the majority of the time which is something I already said but you just ignored. I guessed wrong and Jody was in my head that night. Jody Tha Great owned Slips, not Kung Lao owns Scorpion.

Yea, everybody knows if you predict a hellfire and you jump it you can punish him. Everybody also knows if you try to jump hellfire you get speared which is 29% or more. Your just telling one side of the story.

Scorp struggles against air projectile characters thats true. But most other characters save for Sector, Noob, Cyrax and Ermac, he wins the projectile battle with hellfire. I don't see how Cage has better zoning, but the more you talk the less sense you're making to me, so who knows. lol Cage's red shadow kick beats EVERYONE'S zoning. Thanks for singling it out for just against poor Scorpion to make a point.

 

[PimpUigi]

I'm comparing to Mileena and Reptile because those are two of the characters I play the most at this point.
Both of their crossups are ambiguous and you have a certain amount of control over which side of the opponent you end up on.
So it's still good mind games, often to the point of making your opponent block for a frame trap or whatever.

Throwing out the spear is risky in the hellfire mind game, because if they mistime their jump to avoid hellfire, they jump over your spear and you get punished, or you spear too late and they block it, then you get punished.

That's good you win the majority of the time. But clearly the matches showed the characters flaws. He didn't even have to use his Kung Lao specials on you once he knocked you down, he just had to apply a bit of pressure and if you didn't wake up blocking he got free damage off of normals. Even if you got your teleport off, EX or not, he knocked you out of it with his normals.

Slips, you have my respect, you're a beast, and I'm sorry if I made it seem otherwise. I am very impressed with your Scorpion play.

 

[Slips]

Any self respecting Scorpion player just doesn't throw out a spear. You see them jump, and on reaction, spear, its not hard.

Your still missing the point, the only flaws the video shows is my flaws as a player. If Jody has exposed the almighty weaknesses of Scorpion then I would never be able to beat him. Him waiting on me to do an EX TP is the same as someone waiting on a KL to spin. You judging Scorpion on 1 match vid is astounding to me.

Its not about respect, its about truth and logic. I appreciate the sentiments tho.

 

[PimpUigi]

Him waiting on me to do an EX TP is the same as someone waiting on a KL to spin.

What I saw was attacks coming out to hurt you on wakeup, your teleport successfully getting off screen, and then attacks to counter you then.
This isn't quite the same thing as waiting, this is a case IMHO where he should have been punished for trying to attack you on wakeup and you successfully pulling a wakeup attack off.

Granted it wasn't like that every time, and I agree it should be the same.

 

[McNasty]

If you think he sucks your playing him wrong. Go study slips.

 

[Kwon]

Anyone able to put some of Slips Scorpion-play on Youtube?

Otherwise i guess we'll have to check Slips play this weekend!

 

[JHCRANE 14]

I do not think scorpion is top tier, but I do not think he needs the buffs you speak of. I have faced some really tough scorpions who are very good at predicting what you are going to do and guessing right. Scorpion takes getting use to, but once you do I think he has the tools to compete with the whole cast because he is really his own worst enemy.

 

[THTB]

Smoke and Arsenal, knock it off. Now. Your feud in this thread is done. Continue it and infractions will be handed out.

 

[THTB]

I'm aware. I read it from beginning, just saying don't continue it.

 

[cgerrr]

Evo is close and I sooo want to hear every “Scorpion-is-good” people after there won’t be any Scorps at top 8 and Slips will ‘prove’ to everyone why Scorp is not a competitive character with his placing.


And no, it does NOT matter if Scorpion has some favorable match-ups against low-mid tiers:

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.




_

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Smoke and Arsenal, knock it off. Now. Your feud in this thread is done. Continue it and infractions will be handed out.

Hey, ya, I noticed some of there comments are now gone. I guess you have the authority to remove comments? Are you an administrator on here?? I thought you were just a regular like some of us. I will remember this for the future if I need advice on this forum. GO THTB!!!!!!!

 

[MK Peanuts]

Evo is close and I sooo want to hear every “Scorpion-is-good” people after there won’t be any Scorps at top 8 and Slips will ‘prove’ to everyone why Scorp is not a competitive character with his placing.


And no, it does NOT matter if Scorpion has some favorable match-ups against low-mid tiers:

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.




_

This is nonsense. A character not making top 8 at Evo doesn't make that character bad. Most characters won't make top 8 at Evo.

 

[PimpUigi]

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.

Someone who understands 100%. Yes!

 

[Pagan]

And no, it does NOT matter if Scorpion has some favorable match-ups against low-mid tiers:

If char does not have a chance against top chars like Kung Lao/Kabal/Kitana (and other half of a roster) controlled by top players like Tom Brady/Michelangelo/CD – he/she is garbage aside from casuals. Period.

_

PERIOD!

The meta is still young for this game and I don't think people have fully realized just how much better the Top/Upper brackets are in comparison to the lower half. I'm hoping the post EVO patch is going to fix a lot of this.

I want to say to Slips that I am glad a pro player like himself is representing Scorpion. Impressive that a Tekken player, of all things, is playing Scorpion considering how that game is about frame advantage. Scorpion should look baddass in tournaments since he is a baddass.

Perhaps the thread title is a bit too pushy because like I've said, Scorpion's biggest drawbacks are easily fixed with two or three minor tweaks. After that he could easily compete.

 

[PimpUigi]

Perhaps the thread title is a bit too pushy because like I've said, Scorpion's biggest drawbacks are easily fixed with two or three minor tweaks. After that he could easily compete.

I can agree with that. I do believe in being blunt and direct though.

 

[Sc0tt2288]

Scorpion honestly does not suck at all.. most of his match ups against the cast of characters are 5-5 and the other ones are 6-4 so he really aint getting blown out of the water... People just need to realize what he is great at and what he is at a disadvantage at.. Scorpion is a high risk/ high reward character and to me you have to know how to play him the right way to take advantage of how a good of a character he is..

i mained subzero first until shortly after the hot fix that gave most wake ups armour and also the damage reduction one and then i decided to find another main to look for.. and I picked scorpion and they are alike in a way..

They are alike in the way that you have to play smartly... Subzero you set up traps with your ice clones . know what they are going to do before they do it. .. you have to do the same with scorpion you have to know what they are going to do next you dont just randomly teleport or hellfire or any of his specials or youll get lit up with a combo. . hellfire to make them jump then spear them for a combo or make them get antsy and teleport then punish or set up your reset which is Scorpions biggest plus is that reset they have to guess if your going low or an overhead and i think thats the only character that does that... you can take off like 60 plus with just a reset and his bnb and if you hit two resets and then his bnb then almost all your opponent health is gone

only thing i see scorpion is really weak at is wakeup ... his wakeup sucks not even going to lie but i think they may have did that b.c. of all the offensive options he has at his disposal b.c. he can start a combo just like dat out of no where... jump kick them in the air tele their ya go you can start a combo... he can start combos pretty easy if you can guess right if not then your screwed...

the main thing is just playing him smart and making the right guesses on what your opponent is going to do next.. i think scorpion is fine he may need a lil better wakeup but idk it doesnt really bother me .

 

[PimpUigi]

Unfortunately we won't be seeing Slips in the top 16 : (
And he only had two matches on the stream. One where he ownt, and one where he had a close match against Konqr which he lost.

I know he made top 64, and that's good shit.
Jax also made top 64.

So yeah, here's to hoping that this proved Scorpion sucks...he really deserves to place top 16 : \

Slips, when you get the chance, tell us of your off camera wins and loss.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

So really there was a bunch of crap here. I want to know your MAIN complaint about scorpion. the one thing you think he lacks. I can't remember and sifting through your posts are... they hurt my head.

I think you want him to have a wakeup move. I'd agree to that. Am I wrong to think that if you gave EX Spear total armor through animation (whiff or hit) it would solve some of your complaints?

 

[PimpUigi]

Am I wrong to think that if you gave EX Spear total armor through animation (whiff or hit) it would solve some of your complaints?

Actually that's a good idea.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Actually that's a good idea.

awesome. I started using him and noticed the lack of legit ex move to wakeup with. I think the true 50/50 stuff he has is just nuts. Slips I applaud you trying to exploit Scorpion. I think this would really help in his tougher matches and not make the others sway in his favor. I will say i think on BLOCK the armor should be gone... but i don't know if that is possible.

 

[babalook]

anybody notice after a teleport reset to end combos slips backed up and did b2 so if they block, it's at tip distance(probably unpunishable in some matchups)

 

[PimpUigi]

Which characters did we see in the top 16??
Sub Zero, Reptile, Smoke, Mileena, Kitana, Jax, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kabal, Shang Tsung, and Raiden.

This is a huge portion of the cast; 12 characters, and NRS should give themselves a pat on the back for how balanced the game is to actually achieve that feat.
I saw every character on stream today apart from Jade and Quan Chi.

I think it says something if Jax is better than Scorpion.
The Jax player beat Online Tony, who in turn [Online Tony] beats Michelangelo.
Amazing stuff.

So it'd be nice to have Scorpion buffed to the point he could be prominent in a top 16 like these characters were. (Jax just got his butt kicked in the top 16 though, not one good round even, but he got there!)
I don't think he really needs much past the wakeup move that goes through attacks plus is safe on block, as well as the fastest teleport to deal with heavy zoners.

 

[Pagan]

@ Baba

I saw that and liked it a lot. If you did enhanced spear off of f4 at that range, it would make it a safe 50/50 (E. Spear recovers quicker on block and can't be ducked).

@ Pimp

People keep saying "Scorpion is a good character he's just really unsafe" and don't even see how that's not a walking contradiction. While Slips will probably come on here to say it was human error, I honestly thought Slips was playing solid and made more good decisions than his opponent. The problem was, there are far more opportunities for Scorpion to make a mistake than Kitana and so Scorpion loses the advantage in the long haul.