General/Other - Ronin Ronin block infinite "analysis"

[Zoidberg747]

One rep of his "infinite" builds half a bar of meter and he has the ability to end his combos in a restand so a Ronin player shouldn't be starved for meter.

When did I ever say he was starved for meter? lol

 

[JTB123]

When did I ever say he was starved for meter? lol

Where did I say you said that?

Just pointing out that him having to use a bar to break 30% isn't really a big deal due to his meter gain.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Where did I say you said that?

Just pointing out that him having to use a bar to break 30% isn't really a big deal due to his meter gain.

My point was that you shouldnt worry too much about breaking if he only gets 30%. But Ketchup corrected me anyway.

But yeah, between his pressure and laser zoning he is a meter building machine.

 

[BigMilk]

How do you even define "good or bad meter management"? Obviously, a player will always feel like it's a good time to use meter if they use it. What happens if they guess wrong? Was it then bad meter management? So you are basically saying meter management is based upon guesses/reads which are random.

 

[Zoidberg747]

How do you even define "good or bad meter management"? Obviously, a player will always feel like it's a good time to use meter if they use it. What happens if they guess wrong? Was it then bad meter management? So you are basically saying meter management is based upon guesses/reads which are random.

Well a good example would be if you are about to lose the first round and break, thats bad meter management.

 

[BigMilk]

Well a good example would be if you are about to lose the first round and break, thats bad meter management.

This is my entire point though, what if you break then win the first round you were "about to lose". But that would be the obvious situation. All scenarios wont be as obvious so how exactly do you manage your meter? My point is justifying a pseudo block infinite shouldn't be based on something that is random anyway. It shouldn't even be in the game but the argument is weak

 

[Zoidberg747]

This is my entire point though, what if you break then win the first round you were "about to lose". But that would be the obvious situation. All scenarios wont be as obvious so how exactly do you manage your meter? My point is justifying a pseudo block infinite shouldn't be based on something that is random anyway. It shouldn't even be in the game but the argument is weak

No ones justifying anything. Im just saying you dont want to break against Takeda because he doesnt do too much damage and can just run it and start the infinite over if you break. Its better to save the meter for armored reversals.

 

[SOLEdier]

Instead of nerving the advantage of B212+4, Just make block breaker cost 1 bar of meter and one bar of stamina.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

That isn't her only option you know. And that would be a waste of meter against this character. As I said you use meter differently depending on the match up, what works on some characters doesn't work on others. Hell she gets off better than most in this match up due to her ability to gain meter so easily. And I'm not arguing to argue. I'm just stating why I think it is okay, people are responding to me so I am replying. X-ray should not be your only answer and only way to spend meter as I said many times before, match up dependant. Why should one strategy work against everyone? Why should you treat how you spend your meter the same against every single character?

Cmon maaan, how can you honestly not see that you're wrong lol?

It's such a simple concept.
You just said treat your meter differently depending on the character, then why should everyone else only use their meter for armour against takeda?

That's essentially giving meter one purpose when you're against takeda, not because it's a good idea, but because if you don't you just give him meter and he chips you to death.

 

[BigMilk]

No ones justifying anything. Im just saying you dont want to break against Takeda because he doesnt do too much damage and can just run it and start the infinite over if you break. Its better to save the meter for armored reversals.

My post was directed towards drprofpepper or whatever his name is, not you. He was justifying the block infinite by saying manage your meter properly but how is that even an argument

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Cmon maaan, how can you honestly not see that you're wrong lol?

It's such a simple concept.
You just said treat your meter differently depending on the character, then why should everyone else only use their meter for armour against takeda?

That's essentially giving meter one purpose when you're against takeda, not because it's a good idea, but because if you don't you just give him meter and he chips you to death.

Because there is a way around it, and a fairly simple solution at that, it is really difficult to get me to call something over powered or broken. And yeah I'm perfectly fine with that, because it is only 5 characters that need to do that. Not the entirety of the cast. Most the cast can poke out of it. Most don't need to use meter. Just these 5 characters.

 

[tafka Djinn]

Good on you @MrProfDrPepper, if they leave it in, they'll have to give your main a buff to get out! *slow clap*
If I'm wrong I'm sorry, but it makes more sense than if you legitimately believe that we should just use meter exclusively for armor in that MU.

 

[ATIWAB]

6f low pokes for everyone is a terrible idea. Just change the advantage to +2 instead of +4.

This is not a huge deal anyway, it only applies to a very small number of characters, backed into a corner, with perfect execution down to the frame by the Takeda player, against someone with no meter... i.e., not a common or likely scenario.

 

[GLoRToR]

Do you think its fine for someone to lose a round/game because you got hit once by Cyrax in MK9?

In a lot of cases being hit once is already 50% of your hp in this game. That shit needs to change, I agree. Likely this infinite will be addressed in the next patch though, it's a dishonest design mistake in my opinion, which wasn't intended at all.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

6f low pokes for everyone is a terrible idea. Just change the advantage to +2 instead of +4.

This is not a huge deal anyway, it only applies to a very small number of characters, backed into a corner, with perfect execution down to the frame by the Takeda player, against someone with no meter... i.e., not a common or likely scenario.

I land 2 frame links near 100% of the time, and used to land 3f blockstrings near 100% of the time pre-patch.
This isnt execution heavy, or an unlikely scenario. Unless you got toasty boosts unlocked?

Because there is a way around it, and a fairly simple solution at that, it is really difficult to get me to call something over powered or broken. And yeah I'm perfectly fine with that, because it is only 5 characters that need to do that. Not the entirety of the cast. Most the cast can poke out of it. Most don't need to use meter. Just these 5 characters.

You know how easy it is to bait an armoured move when the persons only option is to do an armoured move and you've been looping the same situation over and over?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Good on you @MrProfDrPepper, if they leave it in, they'll have to give your main a buff to get out! *slow clap*
If I'm wrong I'm sorry, but it makes more sense than if you legitimately believe that we should just use meter exclusively for armor in that MU.

My main has a way to get out, exrising karma. But yes I believe for those 5 characters meter should only be used for armor in that match up. I don't care weather they leave it in or not

 

[Wetdoba]

I cant believe so many people support all the characters with flowchart block pressure that loops back into itself. Its dumb, its boring, and poor design. Give these characters plus frames for frame traps, but dont make it loop back into itself, force the person on offense to use more than two strings and 2 specials to win like Kobu Tanya, Flame Fist Liu, pre nerf Tempest Lao... Stop supporting braindead character design. This character has great footsies, space control, set ups... yet its all thrown out because everyone just wants the easy mode shit that loops into itself so they can ignore any and all fundamentals this game actually has. Its sad how many people actually want their character to be dumb they are so scared of losing

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

My main has a way to get out, exrising karma. But yes I believe for those 5 characters meter should only be used for armor in that match up. I don't care weather they leave it in or not

It'd be fair if the situation cost Takeda something, but it doesn't.
It's not like tempest ex hat for example, where he locks you down at the cost of a bar.

This is you being locked down for nothing, and costing you bar to escape, as well as having to basically just guess and have fingers crossed the opponent isnt blocking.

 

[tafka Djinn]

But yes I believe for those 5 characters meter should only be used for armor in that match up.

I'll just be seeing my way out then.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

It'd be fair if the situation cost Takeda something, but it doesn't.
It's not like tempest ex hat for example, where he locks you down at the cost of a bar.

This is you being locked down for nothing, and costing you bar to escape, as well as having to basically just guess and have fingers crossed the opponent isnt blocking.

Yeah fair enough it is kind of bs that he doesn't need meter for it or even stamina.

 

[Swordzman321]

I cant believe so many people support all the characters with flowchart block pressure that loops back into itself. Its dumb, its boring, and poor design. Give these characters plus frames for frame traps, but dont make it loop back into itself, force the person on offense to use more than two strings and 2 specials to win like Kobu Tanya, Flame Fist Liu, pre nerf Tempest Lao... Stop supporting braindead character design. This character has great footsies, space control, set ups... yet its all thrown out because everyone just wants the easy mode shit that loops into itself so they can ignore any and all fundamentals this game actually has. Its sad how many people actually want their character to be dumb they are so scared of losing

This ^^^^^

Yeah fair enough it is kind of bs that he doesn't need meter for it or even stamina.

fucking finally ^ it only toke 4 pages of arguing with random community members, and a well known high level player @A F0xy Grampa

 

[ATIWAB]

I land 2 frame links near 100% of the time, and used to land 3f blockstrings near 100% of the time pre-patch.
This isnt execution heavy, or an unlikely scenario.

So we should all expect to see you counter-picking Ronin Takeda against those five characters for this ultra-imbalanced free win in the future, right?



(Spoiler: you won't)

 

[RM Ree]

This is a really good thread to check out if you're curious about a players credibility. Probably gonna take everything @MrProfDrPepper says with a grain of salt. PhD in ridiculous thinking infinites belong in fighting games.

 

[ATIWAB]

This is a really good thread to check out if you're curious about a players credibility. Probably gonna take everything @MrProfDrPepper says with a grain of salt. PhD in ridiculous thinking infinites belong in fighting games.

If it were a true infinite, it definitely wouldn't. The fact that all but five characters can poke out and those can still backdash or armor out makes the use of the word "infinite" pretty misleading.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

This ^^^^^



fucking finally ^ it only toke 4 pages of arguing with random community members, and a well known high level player @A F0xy Grampa

im not the kind of person to be easily convinced of something i need a lot of proof, a couple people on the internet randomly saying something is broken isnt going to convince me, actual debates where you discuss said issue like what happened convinces me, arguments that make sense from both sides, i need full bullet proof evidence.