Match-up Discussion RiBBz22's Killer Frost Matchup Chart [Updated: 10/10/13]

[ApocaLips]

More damages essentially when parrying an armored move since they don't remain in the armored state?

Less damage actually. You got in an extra unscaled hit when you parried an armored opponent. I can live without it though.

Agreed that pretty much everything else in this patch is good for her, except obviously the character buffs. But I don't think the lower tier character buffs affect her matchups much.

I wish you videotaped you reading the notes then dancing around the room. I bet it was hilarious.

 

[RiBBz22]

Fool. I'm talking about b3 lmao.

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, yeah mb b3 is so off of my radar I literally didn't even consider that you were talking about it. I still will probably not use it just because of how slow it is...maybe to punish jump in's and with some stuff that ends with interactable setups with stage background bounces.

 

[Law Hero]

I expect you to get first place at the next major, xKhaoTik.

Make everyone wish BA, Superman, and Scorpion were back.

 

[Konqrr]

KF B3 is really good in specific situations. It's her most damaging starter... but has absolutely NO range or use as a bounce cancel lol

 

[xKhaoTik]

KF B3 is really good in specific situations. It's her most damaging starter... but has absolutely NO range or use as a bounce cancel lol

I only use it against HG lol

 

[Konqrr]

I only use it against HG lol

MMH is another it works well on.

 

[RiBBz22]

I think I am probably going to move Aquaman to 6-4 advantage Frost after the patch. Do any Frost players have a reason why this MU is not advantage Frost? I think I probably just got influenced by Aquaman being such a good character overall.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I think I am probably going to move Aquaman to 6-4 advantage Frost after the patch. Do any Frost players have a reason why this MU is not advantage Frost? I think I probably just got influenced by Aquaman being such a good character overall.

Finally!!! Geez lol.

 

[RiBBz22]

Finally!!! Geez lol.

Yeah, I always had it at 6-4 before the patch that took away trait cancel advantage because I used that shit so much against that character lol. I figured since the character was so good and I haven't been playing Michaelangelo that much recently that it was probably going to shift to even. I think it would flip flop the other way if KF couldn't punish ground trident. Get iceberg'd brah.

 

[Qwark28]

kf solid top 7. black adam now probably goes even with her

 

[Rickyraws]

I think I am probably going to move Aquaman to 6-4 advantage Frost after the patch. Do any Frost players have a reason why this MU is not advantage Frost? I think I probably just got influenced by Aquaman being such a good character overall.

I don't think there's any other character I use that beats Aquaman as easily as Frost does. Check out the Aquaman forums, they've invented some tech with his trait. Don't know the details, but the disclaimer at the bottom was "Will not work against Killer Frost" and some of the first posts were "I was just about to post that before reading the disclaimer". While the majority of the (expected because XBL) death threats I receive are from Nightwing (Interestingly) and Doomsday players, I have no short amount of Aquamen who have referred the horrifying things they would like to do to me in real life. I constantly try and figure out why it would be anything less than 5-5, but anything it pretty much characters specific and null against Frost. I can count on one hand the amount of Aquaman players that do things that make me feel defenseless/ hopeless. This counting session, of course, is assuming I am an amputee with no hands.

Finally!!! Geez lol.

Khaotik.....I've been meaning to ask..................what..............what are your thoughts on Kevin Garnett?

 

[RiBBz22]

I don't think there's any other character I use that beats Aquaman as easily as Frost does. Check out the Aquaman forums, they've invented some tech with his trait. Don't know the details, but the disclaimer at the bottom was "Will not work against Killer Frost" and some of the first posts were "I was just about to post that before reading the disclaimer". While the majority of the (expected because XBL) death threats I receive are from Nightwing (Interestingly) and Doomsday players, I have no short amount of Aquamen who have referred the horrifying things they would like to do to me in real life. I constantly try and figure out why it would be anything less than 5-5, but anything it pretty much characters specific and null against Frost. I can count on one hand the amount of Aquaman players that do things that make me feel defenseless/ hopeless. This counting session, of course, is assuming I am an amputee with no hands.



Khaotik.....I've been meaning to ask..................what..............what are your thoughts on Kevin Garnett?

Yeah, most Aquaman players love to turtle, and who can blame them since he is a bad ass turtle character. That strategy absolutely will not work against Frost so I just let them turtle away. I've never had a problem with any of the ones I have played besides Michaelangelo and the only thing that gives me any trouble are some of his really good jump in setups. Me getting tricked on those is totally on me anyways...but it is online and stuff like that tends to be a ton better online.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I don't think there's any other character I use that beats Aquaman as easily as Frost does. Check out the Aquaman forums, they've invented some tech with his trait. Don't know the details, but the disclaimer at the bottom was "Will not work against Killer Frost" and some of the first posts were "I was just about to post that before reading the disclaimer". While the majority of the (expected because XBL) death threats I receive are from Nightwing (Interestingly) and Doomsday players, I have no short amount of Aquamen who have referred the horrifying things they would like to do to me in real life. I constantly try and figure out why it would be anything less than 5-5, but anything it pretty much characters specific and null against Frost. I can count on one hand the amount of Aquaman players that do things that make me feel defenseless/ hopeless. This counting session, of course, is assuming I am an amputee with no hands.



Khaotik.....I've been meaning to ask..................what..............what are your thoughts on Kevin Garnett?

People say I look like him -____-

He's a good player tho. Dont really care for him much

 

[Rickyraws]

People say I look like him -____-

He's a good player tho. Dont really care for him much

That's kinda what I was getting at
Don't really think you look like him though, more that you kinda remind me of him...not in a bad way by any means.

However you really need to step up your pop off setups and mix ups if you wish to be at his caliber

http://www.ibtimes.com/honey-nut-cheerios-kevin-garnetts-comments-about-carmelo-anthonys-wife-isnt-first-time-celtics-star

I think just about everyone dislikes comparisons made to others, regardless of who the person is or how closely they DO resemble them though. For instance, certain individuals said I looked like Doomsday. Of course I vehemently disagreed.

In totally unrelated news, those same individuals have sustained mysterious injuries.

 

[xKhaoTik]

That's kinda what I was getting at
Don't really think you look like him though, more that you kinda remind me of him...not in a bad way by any means.

However you really need to step up your pop off setups and mix ups if you wish to be at his caliber

http://www.ibtimes.com/honey-nut-cheerios-kevin-garnetts-comments-about-carmelo-anthonys-wife-isnt-first-time-celtics-star

I think just about everyone dislikes comparisons made to others, regardless of who the person is or how closely they DO resemble them though. For instance, certain individuals said I looked like Doomsday. Of course I vehemently disagreed.

In totally unrelated news, those same individuals have sustained mysterious injuries.

Lmao when I beat KDZ, my pop off was beyond epic. I just wish the stream would've caught it lol

 

[Metzos]

RiBBz22, hey man why do you think KF beats DD 7-3? Imo i always found that MU to be 6-4 in her favor. There are ways around her parry shenanigans. Also after a blocked slide, for instance, DD is not forced to do only d1xxES. Naked ES works cause it cannot be parried, throw works, d3 works. DD just has to be careful of MB F3's.

But overall i believe after patch KF will be DD's hardest MU probably.

 

[Rickyraws]

Lmao when I beat KDZ, my pop off was beyond epic. I just wish the stream would've caught it lol

Really?! DAAMMIT!What did you do? How did he take it?

Like this?

 

[IrishMantis]

Im sure this thought has being raised many of times, but lets say your Op is on his last life bar, you have slightly, more lets say 25% just for Imagery purpose, you do a block string and end with slide through the match ,and OP, he still has wager but only bars

My question is,
is it worth it instead of finishing a block string in slide , end with 2 bar F3 cancel, good chance you hit since you have it in the OPs muscle memory off doing slide after it?

is it worth it?

 

[@MylesWright_]

Im sure this thought has being raised many of times, but lets say your Op is on his last life bar, you have slightly, more lets say 25% just for Imagery purpose, you do a block string and end with slide through the match ,and OP, he still has wager but only bars

My question is,
is it worth it instead of finishing a block string in slide , end with 2 bar F3 cancel, good chance you hit since you have it in the OPs muscle memory off doing slide after it?

is it worth it?

Why were you ending blockstrings with slide in the first place. The 2 strings you were probably using were 111 and f113 which are both advantage

 

[Rickyraws]

Im sure this thought has being raised many of times, but lets say your Op is on his last life bar, you have slightly, more lets say 25% just for Imagery purpose, you do a block string and end with slide through the match ,and OP, he still has wager but only bars

My question is,
is it worth it instead of finishing a block string in slide , end with 2 bar F3 cancel, good chance you hit since you have it in the OPs muscle memory off doing slide after it?

is it worth it?

Well it would depend on your health, but I'd say yeah it's worth it to do from time to time if you've truly felt that you've conditioned them.

However I'd usually play it safe and just back up chipping them so that they come to me.

OR...so they THINK I'm trying to chip them. I'm actually building meter to combo them and have them lose the clash should they choose to.

 

[IrishMantis]

My bad,,, prolly should mention i dont play KF,, just a thought that sprung my head, since its a 50/50,,, but i take it by your response its not practical

Why were you ending blockstrings with slide in the first place. The 2 strings you were probably using were 111 and f113 which are both advantage

 

[ApocaLips]

I think I am probably going to move Aquaman to 6-4 advantage Frost after the patch. Do any Frost players have a reason why this MU is not advantage Frost? I think I probably just got influenced by Aquaman being such a good character overall.

I think that's fair, although it still might be 5-5. I think a lot of Aquaman players don't know the matchup and play it poorly because he has to drastically change his style. I do think he's versatile enough that it could be 5-5 when they figure it out.

+ Being able to punish his seismo means no zoning for him. This alone makes it a strange matchup for him where you can throw daggers, and if he tries to check you with seismo, you punish him.
+ His great footsies are less problematic for KF due to slide.

- His block-slide game is pretty good. The 9-frame low destroys the d1/parry mixup.
- Trait isn't an enormous problem like it is in some matchups, but it still lowers KF's damage.
- Fucking 15% chip for 1 bar that rebuilds 90% of a bar.
- Dat d2.

Basically, I think Aquaman has problems if KF gets a life lead and sits on it. It makes Aquaman have to approach, which is awkward for him. But on the flip side, KF has trouble mounting an offense as well.

I have no problem with the MU right now, but I think that's because Aquaman players haven't adjusted well. But I do see ways that he can change his game that could cause trouble for KF.




tl;dr - I can see why you think it's 6-4 now. But I don't think it'll stay that way once Aquaman gets much more play in version 1.06 because more players will explore the matchup and find the weaknesses I identified here. I don't see it going below 5-5 though.

 

[RiBBz22]

RiBBz22, hey man why do you think KF beats DD 7-3? Imo i always found that MU to be 6-4 in her favor. There are ways around her parry shenanigans. Also after a blocked slide, for instance, DD is not forced to do only d1xxES. Naked ES works cause it cannot be parried, throw works, d3 works. DD just has to be careful of MB F3's.

But overall i believe after patch KF will be DD's hardest MU probably.

Of course there are always ways around parry, but there is something to be said about the fact that the tool is a pain in general and has to be worked around to begin with. I think that you would admit that although the options you mentioned after a blocked slide are viable...they probably still favor Frost due to her armored f3 and MB parry leading to combos. KF just has a lot of options to punish DD's mistakes so hard and DD needs a lot of consecutive momentum to win this match. Also, I think KF has a huge advantage on both sides of her OKI game. It seems to me like he just has to work really hard in this MU and it only takes a few wrong reads to be down on a lot of life against her.

I agree that it is one of his worst MU's. I would think that Superman would kind of suck for him too because of his trait. When it comes down to it 7-3 6-4, are just numbers. It is definitely a bad MU, it just seems like more of a gap than slight advantage to me.

I think that's fair, although it still might be 5-5. I think a lot of Aquaman players don't know the matchup and play it poorly because he has to drastically change his style. I do think he's versatile enough that it could be 5-5 when they figure it out.

+ Being able to punish his seismo means no zoning for him. This alone makes it a strange matchup for him where you can throw daggers, and if he tries to check you with seismo, you punish him.
+ His great footsies are less problematic for KF due to slide.

- His block-slide game is pretty good. The 9-frame low destroys the d1/parry mixup.
- Trait isn't an enormous problem like it is in some matchups, but it still lowers KF's damage.
- Fucking 15% chip for 1 bar that rebuilds 90% of a bar.
- Dat d2.

Basically, I think Aquaman has problems if KF gets a life lead and sits on it. It makes Aquaman have to approach, which is awkward for him. But on the flip side, KF has trouble mounting an offense as well.

I have no problem with the MU right now, but I think that's because Aquaman players haven't adjusted well. But I do see ways that he can change his game that could cause trouble for KF.




tl;dr - I can see why you think it's 6-4 now. But I don't think it'll stay that way once Aquaman gets much more play in version 1.06 because more players will explore the matchup and find the weaknesses I identified here. I don't see it going below 5-5 though.

Yeah, with AM you really have to know your spacing against his footsie tools because you don't want to be caught by one. And yeah, I hate every character that has a low d1 or a quick hitting low starter....and especially AM's with dat rangy b1...

 

[ApocaLips]

And yeah, I hate every character that has a low d1 or a quick hitting low starter....and especially AM's with dat rangy b1...

Well normally the option to backdash and watch for a whiff punish is available, but Aquaman blows that up with b2 for full combo. So it's even harder than, say, Ares, Batgirl (until the patch), or Flash (whose backdash punish - lightning charge - is at least itself punishable).


Speaking of Batgirl...

I feel like this matchup is going to get much better after the patch, probably resulting in it being in KF's favor.

An ENORMOUS part of Batgirl's game is her d1 pressure. Off of a blocked d1, she can d1~bf3 to end in +1, allowing her to repeat another d1 into the same pressure. There's a gap between d1 and bf3 which can be interrupted, but BG can instead go into cartwheel or flying bat for a frame trap.

Right now, KF can already parry between the d1 and bf3 or cartwheel, blowing that up completely for a full combo (and flying bat is unsafe). But if she misses it, Batgirl can repeat the d1, which right now is unparryable. But being able to parry d1s lets KF blow up that pressure completely even if they miss the beat on one rep. That's a big deal IMO.

 

[16 Bit]

I agree with ApocaLips that Aquaman players may not be playing the MU to it's max. What are Aquaman's generally doing in the post slide guessing game these days? Dizzy had figured out good options when we played this MU. Even better than using b+2 to punish backdash after blocked slide is very slightly delaying b+1,2. That covers parry, blocking(since he can then do hella chip) and backdash.

However I wasn't blowing up Aquaman's wakeups as good as I could. I also wasn't doing her modern max damage combos. So I don't know how the MU would have progressed.

That's another MU that is probably swayed heavily by stage. Especially drone stages since it's a lot of turtling and sitting on life leads, which she cannot afford to do in those stages. I remember Dizzy and I once did an expirement to see how big a difference it could do. We did a set on Wayne Manor great hall, a somewhat neutral stage, and then another on rooftop. It was a 6 game difference.