Rant Incoming: Sick of The Complaining

[Kotal_Wannabe]

I was wrong to bitch about Batman. Now he's neutered and I wish he wasn't. We can be wrong sometimes you know.

Batman isn't neutered though. Aquaman and deadshot were neutered, batman got off pretty easy and is still very viable.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Batman isn't neutered though. Aquaman and deadshot were neutered, batman got off pretty easy and is still very viable.

#prepatchaquamanwasfine

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

#prepatchaquamanwasfine

#hewasn't

 

[Parasurama]

Just make it so supergirl can't MB breath when she holds it, and make mb breath -15 so she can't confirm it so easily, has to commit and looses her turn. A bit of recovery to her movement wouldn't hurt too, her dashes and air dashes barely have any recovery.

Catwoman's b3 is not going away, NRS kinda said they like that move as the cancer it is rn. A dmg nerf is the only thing I can see happening rn.

mb breath -15... Meter burnt..... what is the point?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The NRS scene doesn’t have a problem dick riding pros. Pros have tourney results and therefore have proven that their knowledge is greater than your average player. Tweedy’s Word carries more than mine whether I like it or not.

Tweedy isn’t a professional player.

But aside from that, your point is mostly true.

There’s an exception that there’s also a handful of professional players in every game who are just talented, but say things that are flat-out untrue, show poor understanding of certain aspects of the game, or just reflect their current emotions/hype/salt rather than being logical and well-researched. This is why a player’s word can’t be taken as gospel just because they’re ‘professional’.

So you need to know *which* pros you’re talking about, and what homework they’ve done to back up their point.

Then you will also have specialists on the forums/discord/online that do lots of their own research, understand their character well, and make points that multiple pro players either lurk and read, or get second-hand from other people (or from playing sets against these guys online), despite claiming that the forums are useless. These guys end up doing chunks of the lab work and sharing the knowledge that ends up in a lot of pro play.

Double-eged sword

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

in order for a fighting game character to be well-designed, there needs to be appropriate weaknesses to counteract what they do well. Black Canary, in exchange for her great damage, mix-ups and general dirt, is unsafe, doesn't have much range, and has a hard time against zoners. She is a well-designed character.

This is the problem with the upper tiers in Injustice 2 (I won't go into other games), they don't seem to have any weaknesses, or the ones they do have don't hurt them much. Aquaman, a character who was designed around defense and keeping an opponent out, could also hit for 400+ with 1 meter. He could hit you for (300+?) midscreen 1 bar and 250ish fullscreen 1 bar. He was a poorly designed character. Deadshot, a character designed around projectiles and zoning, also had safe, up close options for doing damage, effectively making it pointless to play any other projectile based character. He was a poorly designed character.

So with that said, what weaknesses to Supergirl and Catwoman have?

 

[Chernyy Volk]

in order for a fighting game character to be well-designed, there needs to be appropriate weaknesses to counteract what they do well. Black Canary, in exchange for her great damage, mix-ups and general dirt, is unsafe, doesn't have much range, and has a hard time against zoners. She is a well-designed character.

This is the problem with the upper tiers in Injustice 2 (I won't go into other games), they don't seem to have any weaknesses, or the ones they do have don't hurt them much. Aquaman, a character who was designed around defense and keeping an opponent out, could also hit for 400+ with 1 meter. He could hit you for (300+?) midscreen 1 bar and 250ish fullscreen 1 bar. He was a poorly designed character. Deadshot, a character designed around projectiles and zoning, also had safe, up close options for doing damage, effectively making it pointless to play any other projectile based character. He was a poorly designed character.

So with that said, what weaknesses to Supergirl and Catwoman have?

I don't know what universe you're living in in which fighting games are designed in this very archetypal rock paper scissors MOBA-esque kind of way. They don't have BLATANT weaknesses, it's about learning how to work around the opponents tools with yours. This idea is a thing that's only existed in NRS games previous because their terrible design facilitated counter picking.

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

I don't know what universe you're living in in which fighting games are designed in this very archetypal rock paper scissors MOBA-esque kind of way. They don't have BLATANT weaknesses, it's about learning how to work around the opponents tools with yours. This idea is a thing that's only existed in NRS games previous because their terrible design facilitated counter picking.

I feel like you didn't understand what I wrote and are just trying to make yourself sound like a better player than you are. Why does Supergirl and Catwoman having no flaws make them well-designed characters?

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I feel like you didn't understand what I wrote and are just trying to make yourself sound like a better player than you are. Why does Supergirl and Catwoman having no flaws make them well-designed characters?

Supergirl for example.

She has to commit to b123 because all b1 or b12 staggers are full combo punishable. She takes big risks just to throw out pokes.

MB breath is only MBable on block so if she tries to throw it out it's always a risk on block.

Teleport being legit punishable by every characters highest damage combo possible, especially the MB.

Has arguably one of the worse b3 and f3's in the game both in terms of the damage she gets raw and due to them being super reactable. She basically has no armored OH option for corner pressure, if the opponent sees it they can forward dash under it.

She doesn't win damage races.

b21+3 is a full combo punishable risk on a bet that gets her infinitely less reward than risk just to open you up if you keep blocking. b2 staggers are OSable.

Air dash is easily anti airable as long as you scout it, which you should be.

I could go on on that note.

 

[MidTierHarley]

How much is 16 Bit paying you?

 

[Chernyy Volk]

How much is 16 Bit paying you?

With Enchantress early access. She's got Kitana fans and +20 on block F3.

 

[DDutchguy]

So before I go into what you're saying, I wanna talk about how you're saying it Cerny.

TYM and the NRS scene have an immense dick riding pros problem but more importantly a bitching problem.

It makes me wonder if most people who bitch about Supergirl and Cat Woman are people who are just bad at the game.

Patronizing the people your post is aimed at will only make things worse. People have reason to bitch about Supergirl and Catwoman, don't make it seem like they're just bitching because they're bad.

I was wrong to bitch about Batman. Now he's neutered and I wish he wasn't. We can be wrong sometimes you know.

While admitting you were wrong in the past is fine, you can't dismiss it by just saying 'we're all wrong sometimes'. If you used to bitch about Batman (thus making this post a bit hypocritical), own up to it. Show that you're self-aware about it and that if Supergirl/Catwoman bitchers can be criticised, so can past-you.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

Appeal to non-authority fallacy. Whether gam was using a non-authority at all is debatable, because while Tweedy may not be a full-on pro player, he's proven himself to be a very good and he frequently plays against high-level players.

-----

Bitching about top tiers is always going to happen because people either get salty, don't know the matchup enough or have a vendetta against this specific character. Everyone does it at some point, and I agree with Cherny that people that speak purely from salt need to realize need to see that, frankly, they may just not be good enough. Bitching gets nobody anywhere besides you venting your frustration. I should know because I'm guilty of it myself (mostly on Discord).

I feel like a good ampunt of people have enough self-awareness and knowledge about their own skill level that they can say "Okay, this character may not be

But don't dismiss a popular opinion as just being salt/bitching. If a lot of people say Supergirl and Catwoman are very strong and need toning down (with proper reasoning), then it's time to take a good look at what the characters do well and whether they have too many things going for them compared to the rest of the cast.

 

[Eldriken]

No swearing in the topic title, please. I changed it accordingly. Carry on.

 

[myri]

Regardless of whether or not you think characters like Supergirl and Catwoman are broken or fair, the shear vitriol directed at the communities for these characters is insane, the Supergirl community in particular. It's why I don't bother coming on this site anywhere near as much as I used to because I don't feel like we're allowed to have an informed discussion, most of the time when I opened my mouth to share an opinion in a reasonable manner I got shat on by numerous people just for trying to have a reasonable discussion. Regardless of if these characters are broken or not the culture of this community makes it so people would rather spend time complaining online on forums like these instead of playing the game.

Talking about character balance is important but we have to do it in a reasonable and informed manner.

 

[Vigilante24]

Supergirl for example.

She has to commit to b123 because all b1 or b12 staggers are full combo punishable. She takes big risks just to throw out pokes.

Hold up... you think this is a weakness?? Do you know how many characters in this game would kill for a 9f advancing mid leading to a gapless safe string just to throw out whenever they want?? I sure as hell would considering my only advancing string is a -14 low with a gap big enough to blow up with backdash into full combo punish, buttons, and armor/MB B3s which means I'm never safe for throwing out my best normal. Best part is when I get punished for more damage than I ever would have dealt if my combo would have connected so I'm already at a disadvantage just by playing neutral.

It's okay tho right? Supergirl is such a big risk character guys. So many glaring flaws that make this character fair after all. We just need to level up and stop bitching.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Catwoman and Supergirl are the best characters in the game so them getting bitched about is reasonable. But they aren’t that crazy honestly, especially coming off of MKX top tiers.

 

[gam224]

Appeal to authority fallacy.

Would you ask a tailor to captain your ship?

 

[Tweedy]

I think during the last version of mkx the amount of money I made could have qualified me as a pro. Obviously i'm not a pro at Inj 2 and I don't even care to say that first sentence but I don't get why Crimson/Teejay always gotta regulate people upplaying me when I don't even upplay myself. Like this guy on TYM upplays me and gives me a slight ego boost that I haven't gotten in a while and Crimson/Teejay gotta shoot that shit down fast as fuck lol.

 

[Tweedy]

I'm sure Crimson is gonna come in here talking about how he just had to state the facts but honestly dude you don't know how good I am or how much money I've made on these games. So honestly just keep quiet because i'm not even saying i'm good or a pro or anything.

 

[Tweedy]

I already regret these posts but honestly it's mad annoying when someone wants to give me props that I maybe do or don't deserve and it's gotta be shut down. Sonic and Crimson better hope I don't do well at these majors in 2018 because i'm making it a point to pop off on both of you bitches.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I'm sure Crimson is gonna come in here talking about how he just had to state the facts but honestly dude you don't know how good I am or how much money I've made on these games. So honestly just keep quiet because i'm not even saying i'm good or a pro or anything.

How did you manage to make three posts about yourself when you literally could've made a status update or something?

 

[x TeeJay o]

I think during the last version of mkx the amount of money I made could have qualified me as a pro. Obviously i'm not a pro at Inj 2 and I don't even care to say that first sentence but I don't get why Crimson/Teejay always gotta regulate people upplaying me when I don't even upplay myself. Like this guy on TYM upplays me and gives me a slight ego boost that I haven't gotten in a while and Crimson/Teejay gotta shoot that shit down fast as fuck lol.

What I do lol

 

[juicepouch]

You're all free is what I'm getting from this

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Tweedy is drunk

Happy New Year guys

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Yeah, Tweedy is drinking. I am drinking. Y'all dunno how much a good new years night can cost. Jesus christ. Its not easy to organize an a truly interesting night when you are 35. Its so much goddamn easier when you havent had a decade to out-do yourself.

But, on topic. SOmething something something. Some shit happened and then some more shit happened. Shit.