General/Other - Raiden Raiden F1 now hits High instead of Mid

[Chaosphere]

My current on paper strategy is to block after f12. If they poke, then d1 or d3 and get your advantage. Not a huge deal but it's definitely worth bitching about since it may affect mos and displacer more than thunder god.

 

[PandaManee]

I can't understand who people can't be OK with a 6 frame mid that you can combo off of. Wit other characters who have moves at that speed are either punishable can't be comboed with or hit high.

Does Raiden lack tools so badly that he does NEED this?? Lets take a brief look at what he has.

13 frame low and over head that can be safe, IE safe 50/50s. Until or if ever OSss are removed we can not say otherwise.

Restand that makes the 50/ 50s essentially a vortex if i'm not mistaken?

Strong wall carry..

Does he still have good meter building ??

Decent range on his normals.

Strong combos.

Armor wakeup move he can combo off of.

 

[Dizzy]

just went into tmode, did b11 LRC f1 on block recording, tried to mash f1 as raiden out, get hit every time.

http://www.twitch.tv/delbuster/b/665247876

Could you try to do b11 lrc fast enough to stuff reversal spin from KL? I only tried for like 5 min before going to bed but couldn't get a timing down where b11 lrc wasn't getting punished by reversal spin

 

[Tigerbang]

And it just hit me "SuperMan" and the God of thunder have so much in common.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

just went into tmode, did b11 LRC f1 on block recording, tried to mash f1 as raiden out, get hit every time.

http://www.twitch.tv/delbuster/b/665247876

b11 seems to wiff on some crouch blocking characters lol
also b11 LRC seems to be only +2 maybe +3 on block was poking out with subs 9 frame d1 if you would go for f1 of b3 after the LRC but another b1 hit. this is also blown up by fast armor moves even if you release the lightning ball
EDIT: i could poke out with ermacs 6 frame d1 nearly everytime

 

[RM Truth]

I would've preferred if they made F12 more negative.

 

[delbuster]

Could you try to do b11 lrc fast enough to stuff reversal spin from KL? I only tried for like 5 min before going to bed but couldn't get a timing down where b11 lrc wasn't getting punished by reversal spin

non ex spin reversal gets stuffed. will show asap

 

[brizzle]

just went into tmode, did b11 LRC f1 on block recording, tried to mash f1 as raiden out, get hit every time.

http://www.twitch.tv/delbuster/b/665247876

Because your mashing. Strict timing punishes can't be mashed lol. It's like -4 or 5

 

[delbuster]

Because your mashing. Strict timing punishes can't be mashed lol. It's like -4 or 5

i just did it with reversal non ex kung lao spin (7f), which means comes out on first frame. gets stuffed by f1.

it is clearly slightly plus.

 

[brizzle]

i just did it with reversal non ex kung lao spin (7f), which means comes out on first frame. gets stuffed by f1.

it is clearly slightly plus.

Yep your right. Finally got the dummy to replay correctly. My bad

 

[delbuster]

b11 seems to wiff on some crouch blocking characters lol
also b11 LRC seems to be only +2 maybe +3 on block was poking out with subs 9 frame d1 if you would go for f1 of b3 after the LRC but another b1 hit. this is also blown up by fast armor moves even if you release the lightning ball
EDIT: i could poke out with ermacs 6 frame d1 nearly everytime

i mean... with f1 now a high, yeah raiden will have to do stricter answers to crouch move mashing out of slightly plus on block stuff.

 

[Albo]

Could you try to do b11 lrc fast enough to stuff reversal spin from KL? I only tried for like 5 min before going to bed but couldn't get a timing down where b11 lrc wasn't getting punished by reversal spin

I'm able to beat it out with f1, but not b1, not even a trade.

b11 seems to wiff on some crouch blocking characters lol
also b11 LRC seems to be only +2 maybe +3 on block was poking out with subs 9 frame d1 if you would go for f1 of b3 after the LRC but another b1 hit. this is also blown up by fast armor moves even if you release the lightning ball
EDIT: i could poke out with ermacs 6 frame d1 nearly everytime

Which ones? Can it be low profiled by some charcaters pokes

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

I'm able to beat it out with f1, but not b1, not even a trade.



Which ones? Can it be low profiled by some charcaters pokes

not sure but when i was testing out sub it would sometimes wiff, dont know if it was because of how far away i was sometimes but it did wiff

 

[STRYKIE]

Could you try to do b11 lrc fast enough to stuff reversal spin from KL? I only tried for like 5 min before going to bed but couldn't get a timing down where b11 lrc wasn't getting punished by reversal spin

Tested B11 LRC F1 against Cassie's reversal flipkick, the F1 stuffed it. Gets beaten by the armored version but I can't vouch if I'm doing it at the first possible frame.

 

[delbuster]

chars can def. crouch to make b11 whiff which is unfortunate. however there are also chars who have to crouch unblock to make it whiff, so that's scary for them to try.

b11 LRC seems to be +1.

b11 LRC (+1) to b1(8f startup)

is losing to 6f normals and trading with 7f normals. meaning it should lose to 7f specials and trade with 8f specials.

 

[delbuster]

Could you try to do b11 lrc fast enough to stuff reversal spin from KL? I only tried for like 5 min before going to bed but couldn't get a timing down where b11 lrc wasn't getting punished by reversal spin

though technically it b11 lrc f1 should also stuff 6f special reversals, being +1 vs specials.

 

[THTB]

I think he just needed his meter building nerfed and remove the b2 OS.

Make b2 no longer cancellable. Boom, OS gone. That or make shocker too punishable to even worry about OSing (-13/-14 or something).

I don't agree with making the move high when you solved the original issue that was there in the first place by giving the needing characters faster normals.

 

[Raidenwins]

It's all about flavors of the month and tears in this community. Have enough influence and cry hard enough and you'll get what you want (persistence pays off). I already knew this shit was going to happen (notice nothing has changed with Jax in the patch notes, as I suspected). This one change alone will change the way Raiden is played across all variations, which I also knew was going to happen...good thing I didn't get too comfortable with the way he was because I knew I would have to relearn him anyways after all the tears were said and done.

I seen it coming.

I couldn't have said it better. I propose all Raiden players start losing in tournaments, or just drop the character all together until all patches are done (probably end of year sometimes). Maybe that'll motivate NRS to give us some buffs.

 

[Chaosphere]

Make b2 no longer cancellable. Boom, OS gone. That or make shocker too punishable to even worry about OSing (-13/-14 or something).

I don't agree with making the move high when you solved the original issue that was there in the first place by giving the needing characters faster normals.

Don't make shocker punishable. There would be literally no reason to use the move EVER. It does like 8% on hit and leads to nothing. I say just make b2 OS go away. b2~ex-shocker servers a purpose midscreen and that's already punishable on block. Just fix the game and remove the OS. Oh wait... they prob can't lol

 

[delbuster]

char was dumb good before the nerf, now he has to work harder but still has things he can do.

superman, combo damage and corner carry, 13f overhead/low that are safeish, reversal combos, and meterbuild/footsie options w/ lightning strings still exist. he just lost his super strong pressure options. he still has pressure options, but they aren't that crazy.


btw... b2 df2 OS is funny because df2 is a high, but b2 is two overheads.
i'll b2 LRC on people though. it's super minus but they are waiting for the second swing or the df2.

 

[THTB]

Don't make shocker punishable. There would be literally no reason to use the move EVER. It does like 8% on hit and leads to nothing. I say just make b2 OS go away. b2~ex-shocker servers a purpose midscreen and that's already punishable on block. Just fix the game and remove the OS. Oh wait... they prob can't lol

They took out the 123 OS. Unless it's that hard-coded into how the game detects blocks and hits, then I don't see why not.

 

[delbuster]

anyway, i think the char is still good. i'll come back to raiden after trying out some of the buffed chars or tanya if i think raiden will still suit me better.

 

[Dizzy]

I personally don't particularly care about pressure being removed, he didn't need it at all. The main issue now is his neutral game. The range on b1 is way too short to be useful as a footsies tool. F2 is too slow for the range it provides. Most likely will rely heavily on d3 now as an offensive footsies tool as well.

I have some ideas but theorizing the neutral can be pretty sketchy. I want to try them out in real matches before possibly leading other raiden mains astray.

 

[delbuster]

i agree, his neutral takes a hit because he mostly used mobility to get a f1 whiff punish or at worse start pressure. i think he has to be more tricky movement wise now to sneak in a f2 or get in range of f1.

might have to take more risks with superman at times.

fireball / ex fireball have a place. fireball being duckable makes players sort of pause, and run canceling it into pressure is possible. ex fireball is mid and +12 at point blank, and stoppable, so it can sometimes force things.

 

[buyacushun]

Glad the already established great TG Raiden is doing just fine. Dizzy could you go to a tourney and lose with MoS and Displacer so we can get those variations buffs? Kinda joking, it'd be cool though