Tech - Summoner Quan Chi METERLESS 53% Corner Combo- Is this Fair?

[M2Dave]

I hate summoner Quan as much as the next guy but these threads are getting annoying.

Scrubs and low level players have taken over TYM. Nothing can be done.

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

can we stop hating on Quan.... his wake up move is a "down 1" dawg.... he needs it....

 

[Rude]

Those punishes subtract 3-4% off of his regular damage and that's still 10% less than Quan's.

My point is that you have to play footsies in order to actually land the damage, and the character is designed for it. It's a bad comparison for someone desgined to be the best zoner who happened to end up with 50 50s for over half your life when others were meant to have more technical and skillful ways of acquiring even less damage which is still considered tons.

114 mb air grab, f2, b14 max Sun Choke isn't a punish?

Cause that does 46% for a bar. Tried it for Tempest Spin punish. Nothing to sleep on.

F2,f2,f2, b14 mb grab, b14 into Choke is 47% also punishes spin. I'm sure you could use these for stuff like slide and the rest.

This isn't bad damage at all.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Complain all you want but until Quan wins a major nothing needs to be done. There are a lot of quan mains and zero are winning tournaments since the original build. Shoutouts to @EGP Wonder_Chef

Just ante up and learn the MU or play a better character

 

[InFlames]

Grandmaster SZ is a hell of a lot more broken as fuck than Quan will ever be.

get the fuck out lol

 

[Robotic]

Scrubs and low level players have taken over TYM. Nothing can be done.

Plant your fucking feet in the dirt and nut the fuck up, Dave. The 1993 peeps are still here and sprinkle knowledge along with occasional meaningless funny bullshit from time to time. Don't succumb, just ignore when u can and continue.

 

[SaltShaker]

Nerf Jacqui.

This makes me sad.

 

[scarsunseen]

Grandmaster SZ is a hell of a lot more broken as fuck than Quan will ever be.

Please throw your gaming console(s) into traffic.

 

[SaltShaker]

Just read the thread.

I have no issue with Quan Chi's current state and I don't use him at all. Yea I make jokes sometimes and yea he's a bitch to fight against, but that's fighting games. I've faced worse, much worse, in other games over the years. If he's such a problem people should group together with strats to beat him and exploit his weaknesses rather than throw pitch forks. Buff the malnourished characters but I'd leave QC as is.

@Bar not directed at you, just the multitude of "nerf QC" running rampant lately while zero "anti QC tech" is being brought up. Once there's absolutely no way to beat him at all, then talk nerfs. Until that day comes more effort needs to be put into developing strats against him.

Also.


#BuffJacqui

 

[Rude]

Just read the thread.

I have no issue with Quan Chi's current state and I don't use him at all. Yea I make jokes sometimes and yea he's a bitch to fight against, but that's fighting games. I've faced worse, much worse, in other games over the years. If he's such a problem people should group together with strats to beat him and exploit his weaknesses rather than throw pitch forks. Buff the malnourished characters but I'd leave QC as is.

@Bar not directed at you, just the multitude of "nerf QC" running rampant lately while zero "anti QC tech" is being brought up. Once there's absolutely no way to beat him at all, then talk nerfs. Until that day comes more effort needs to be put into developing strats against him.

Also.


#BuffJacqui

I knew you were my favorite poster for a reason.

 

[SaltShaker]

I knew you were my favorite poster for a reason.

I lived through the hell on earth known as facing Tekken 4 Jin for years in tournament play. No one can tell me that Quan is "broken". People subjectively look at Quan Chi as broken when they should objectively look at him as strong. Is he 8-2'ing half the cast? I mean if he was then yea he would be broken, but obviously that isn't the case so why would he need nerfs? Strong =|= broken.

In Injustice as Raven I had problems fighting Khaotic Blaze's MMH. Did I cry broken? No. I went to Ducky and asked him how he deals with the MU. I went to the MMH forums and asked how should I approach the MU and what are my strong points in it. I asked Blaze what are my best options against him and he gave me a descriptive detailed layout on what I should do differently. These things combined helped me make much closer games with him a few weeks later after more learning and more L's. THIS is what the TYM community should be doing much, much more of than what's going on right now.

 

[Rude]

I lived through the hell on earth known as facing Tekken 4 Jin for years in tournament play. No one can tell me that Quan is "broken". People subjectively look at Quan Chi as broken when they should objectively look at him as strong. Is he 8-2'ing half the cast? I mean if he was then yea he would be broken, but obviously that isn't the case so why would he need nerfs? Strong =|= broken.

In Injustice as Raven I had problems fighting Khaotic Blaze's MMH. Did I cry broken? No. I went to Ducky and asked him how he deals with the MU. I went to the MMH forums and asked how should I approach the MU and what are my strong points in it. I asked Blaze what are my best options against him and he gave me a descriptive detailed layout on what I should do differently. These things combined helped me make much closer games with him a few weeks later after more learning and more L's. THIS is what the TYM community should be doing much, much more of than what's going on right now.

That's how it used to be. Notice the surprising LACK of match up talk going on in basically all of these threads?

No one has anything but generic talking points that add nothing to the discussion.

Before I'm accused of bias, I was against Tanya nerfs, Sub Zero nerfs, MMH nerfs, and Kabal nerfs. I do not believe in nerfing.

I'd rather see weaker characters buffed. I have never turned anyone down for games and will provide as much feedback and help as I can.

But people want easy wins, easy 50/50s, and they'd rather campeign nerf agendas that they mask as, "for the good of the game" to hide their own deficiencies.

Just play better. Try harder. That's how I've always looked at it.

 

[SaltShaker]

That's how it used to be. Notice the surprising LACK of match up talk going on in basically all of these threads?

No one has anything but generic talking points that add nothing to the discussion.

Before I'm accused of bias, I was against Tanya nerfs, Sub Zero nerfs, MMH nerfs, and Kabal nerfs. I do not believe in nerfing.

I'd rather see weaker characters buffed. I have never turned anyone down for games and will provide as much feedback and help as I can.

But people want easy wins, easy 50/50s, and they'd rather campeign nerf agendas that they mask as, "for the good of the game" to hide their own deficiencies.

Just play better. Try harder. That's how I've always looked at it.

I could have wrote this whole post myself. Couldn't agree more.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I don't think anyone needs to be nerfed. Just boost the low tier's to compete and leave Quan alone.

I don't play him, I don't care to ever play him... But why nerf him? I know, getting caught in the vortex is a pain in the ass, its not 'fun' to play against, but that's fighting games. They will always have characters in them that are frustrating. So? Frustrating does not mean overpowered. Quan is DAMN strong, but so are other characters. Adapt, adjust and learn to counter.

I'm pretty new to fighting games, been playing for a few months but have spent more of that time trying to make MKX work, then giving up, then coming back, then giving up, then switching games, then coming back, yadda yadda. The point of that is, I'm bad. But ya know what? I have learned that the vast majority of the time when you run up against a character that just seems over the top.. they aren't that bad if you grind out the match-up. Just screaming NERF constantly is bad for the game as a whole. I would rather advocate buffs for my character(s) than scream about nerfs for someone elses.

Now, I'm not advocating screaming for buffs every time you lose. I'm just saying, that outside certain circumstances (I feel like infinites should never be a thing, and it does happen sometimes that a character is just purely, utterly and totally ridiculous) we as players, and the game's designers, should strive to move the game forward in a positive manner. Buffing low-tier has a positive effect for almost everyone. It pushes new characters and playstyles in to the meta, blah, blah. Again, just 'cause I know we have some folks here who don't like to read all of a post before they start ranting; I AM NOT SAYING SCREAM FOR BUFFS AFTER EVERY LOSS. I am just saying that in the grand scheme of balance changes, buffs have a positive effect on the game as a whole, nerfs do not.

I don't think Quan is OP. At all. He's damn strong. But ya know what? I'd rather just learn to beat him and level myself up to compete, vs finally being able to beat competent Quans, not because I got to the bottom of him and figured out the MU, but because the game devs swooped in to save me by weakening him as a character.

Now, when Quan got his little 6f poke buff, I DID bitch, but not because it made him OP or all of a sudden he was god-tier, but because it was idiotic to give a buff to a top 10 character when Kenshi and F/T and a few others were floundering towards the bottom of the tier list. That was my issue with it.

But.. he's got it. He's Quan. Shrug, move on, level up as best you can and give the game time to sort itself and settle some. I do hope to see some changes to characters that are weaker, but, leave everyone else alone. No more nerfs. Stop requesting nerfs. Just grind the MU, figure out your options and play the game.

 

[JDM]

Those punishes subtract 3-4% off of his regular damage and that's still 10% less than Quan's.

My point is that you have to play footsies in order to actually land the damage, and the character is designed for it. It's a bad comparison for someone desgined to be the best zoner who happened to end up with 50 50s for over half your life when others were meant to have more technical and skillful ways of acquiring even less damage which is still considered tons.

Kotal has to play "footsies" xD

War God is literally braindead 50/50 after every string or DURING strings, B1xxOverhead Strik B14Overhead/Low etc. etc. etc. etc. Sun God is the same garbage but with Command grabs instead. xDDDD my footsies bruh. And Blood god is stupid as well. People try to underrate this character so hard cause he "struggles" against zoning (like Obsidian Totem doesn't practically negate zoning and sun god can get like 15 percent health back instantly, or his EX projectile in war god is +30 and destroys most zoning)


Kotal is braindead and stupid as fuck. He's honestly the most underrated character in the game by a long shot. But yeah Quan is dumber :3

 

[JDM]

I'm trolling because I'm straight up sick of 99 Nerf Quan threads.

At least that part. I was serious about how easy it is for Kotal to take nearly half life with a bar and max Sun levels or totem. Totem being safe if canceled off 114.

Well get over it boo. It's Quan's turn to get hatred, don't like it? Don't post in the threads. But every time I see you post in one you make the Quan community look scrubby. I get it you don't want quan nerfed (I don't either, except a few things are completely ridiculous), but don't drag us all down with you :3

 

[RagingRicans]

Complain all you want but until Quan wins a major nothing needs to be done. There are a lot of quan mains and zero are winning tournaments since the original build. Shoutouts to @EGP Wonder_Chef

Just ante up and learn the MU or play a better character

Can we stop using the " My character hasn't won a major"argument to justify balance?Thanks.

 

[Rude]

Well get over it boo. It's Quan's turn to get hatred, don't like it? Don't post in the threads. But every time I see you post in one you make the Quan community look scrubby. I get it you don't want quan nerfed (I don't either, except a few things are completely ridiculous), but don't drag us all down with you :3

Scrubby, huh? As opposed to the guy who reacts to 15 frame overheads?

I don't want any character nerfed, not just Quan.

I mean...I've posted countless times offering games to people who are struggling, explaining how to exploit holes in Quan's gameplay...

I question the validity of what is essentially a combo video...and I'm scrubby.

Okay, sure.

By the way this is the 7th/8th thread that either:

A) Started out as a nerf Quan thread.

B) Became a nerf Quan thread.

Is it really hard to understand how someone could become...oversaturated?

 

[Rude]

Well get over it boo. It's Quan's turn to get hatred, don't like it? Don't post in the threads. But every time I see you post in one you make the Quan community look scrubby. I get it you don't want quan nerfed (I don't either, except a few things are completely ridiculous), but don't drag us all down with you :3

In this very thread I explained why I think these combos are possible and that they should go.

Go back into DMS' bitchy little thread. I was against the buffs there, too, except the d1.

My argument has always been this: The only buff I wanted was the d1. The other stuff was excessive. That said, this is the character we have. If you need help, ask. I'd love to get some quality match up talk going, as 90% of the MU knowledge I have I've had to figure out myself. If Quan never gets touched, the community will have to learn how to fight him.

Which I'd be glad to help them do. That would be a productive conversation as opposed to the many, "Quan broke, Cyrax 2.0" dead horse that gets beat over and over again. At least having that conversation, everyone would be getting better as players.

Seriously, do you EVER know what the fuck you're talking about?

 

[Rude]

Kotal has to play "footsies" xD

War God is literally braindead 50/50 after every string or DURING strings, B1xxOverhead Strik B14Overhead/Low etc. etc. etc. etc. Sun God is the same garbage but with Command grabs instead. xDDDD my footsies bruh. And Blood god is stupid as well. People try to underrate this character so hard cause he "struggles" against zoning (like Obsidian Totem doesn't practically negate zoning and sun god can get like 15 percent health back instantly, or his EX projectile in war god is +30 and destroys most zoning)


Kotal is braindead and stupid as fuck. He's honestly the most underrated character in the game by a long shot. But yeah Quan is dumber :3

You can armor a lot of strings that are canceled into his sword attacks. The ones that you can't are usually the ones he ends in the -18 on block overhead.

Low sword, last I checked, was -21 or so on block.

You can armor or back dash or jump back Sun God's tick throws. You can armor between 114 air Grab and a follow up b1. In fact, he gets nothing guaranteed after air grab and you can armor most strings he cancels into MB Sun Disk.

His f2 is punishable, but you need a specific punish prepared for it. His d4 is -10 and while not every character gets a punish max range, at least it's your turn.

Blood God has no armor at all and terrible wake up options.

Do some research sometime, yeah?

 

[JDM]

You can armor a lot of strings that are canceled into his sword attacks. The ones that you can't are usually the ones he ends in the -18 on block overhead.

Low sword, last I checked, was -21 or so on block.

You can armor or back dash or jump back Sun God's tick throws. You can armor between 114 air Grab and a follow up b1. In fact, he gets nothing guaranteed after air grab and you can armor most strings he cancels into MB Sun Disk.

His f2 is punishable, but you need a specific punish prepared for it. His d4 is -10 and while not every character gets a punish max range, at least it's your turn.

Blood God has no armor at all and terrible wake up options.

Do some research sometime, yeah?

I know how to fight Kotal, just saying he has dumb shit. He's not overly reliant on footsies like the players try to make him sound. He's an MKX character through and through. Also I never said *I* can react to 15 frames. My reactions suck. I do consistently react to Sub's overhead which is 17 frames so eh.

I'm not defending all the quan threads, but I do see your dumb ass poke your head in every one of them to downplay or troll ( You even admitted to trolling in this thread so I don't know why you're trying to defend yourself) and you make us all look bad. This is what TYM does, they pick the next character to cry about and spam threads about them to get them nerfed. You know how this works like I do. Don't like it? Don't open them, you really don't have to.

Lao, Predator, Erron, Shinnok (oh boy shinnok), Raiden etc. etc. all had their time to get blasted by the community. Now it's quan's turn. Most of this shit is ridiculous and probably needs nerfs, we really don't need you screaming in every anti-Quan thread. You're about as bad as immortal when it comes to kenshi. *yawn*

And why the fuck did you want a 6f d1 on this character... I mean I enjoy it too but he definitely did not need it. Lol.

 

[Rude]

I know how to fight Kotal, just saying he has dumb shit. He's not overly reliant on footsies like the players try to make him sound. He's an MKX character through and through. Also I never said *I* can react to 15 frames. My reactions suck. I do consistently react to Sub's overhead which is 17 frames so eh.

I'm not defending all the quan threads, but I do see your dumb ass poke your head in every one of them to downplay or troll ( You even admitted to trolling in this thread so I don't know why you're trying to defend yourself) and you make us all look bad. This is what TYM does, they pick the next character to cry about and spam threads about them to get them nerfed. You know how this works like I do. Don't like it? Don't open them, you really don't have to.

Lao, Predator, Erron, Shinnok (oh boy shinnok), Raiden etc. etc. all had their time to get blasted by the community. Now it's quan's turn. Most of this shit is ridiculous and probably needs nerfs, we really don't need you screaming in every anti-Quan thread. You're about as bad as immortal when it comes to kenshi. *yawn*

And why the fuck did you want a 6f d1 on this character... I mean I enjoy it too but he definitely did not need it. Lol.

You're clueless about Kotal. He doesn't even have 50/50s in Sun God. Of course he has to play footsies. The nuetral game and footsie game happens a lot faster in this game than in others, so I understand why you're confused.

Here's some Sun God knowledge:

F1,B2 is -13 on block. Not special cancellable.

B1 is safe, B12 is not, and B122 is not.

The only tick throws in that sequence are B1 and B14. B14 doesn't combo midscreen on hit and is -13 on block.

So unless you go into the armorable MB Sun Stone, you're left unsafe and at risk. You could go the tick throw option in b14, but if it hits the throw whiffs and you CAN'T hitconfirm b14.

Do some homework.

Accepting shitposting only enables more shit posting. Is that a hard thing to understand?

Just because TYM does a stupid thing doesn't make it not a stupid thing. It just makes it an often practiced stupid thing. You know how you stop stupid things? By trying to be better.

Yeah, I admit to trolling. Mostly because this thread was made two weeks ago when a poster released unbreakable Quan combos. I questioned those, too. I question just about everything I read. That's how you separate fact from fiction.9

Downplay? Many, many times I've said the character was extremely good, you can even look through my old status updates and the DAY after the patch I said Quan was the best in the game.

I write several paragraphs in multiple threads explaining Quan and offering Quan help, and proposing that we as a community explore the match ups, and I make the Quan community look bad?

How stupid are you?

I've offered more game knowledge, character knowledge and content while trolling this idiotic thread and answering your stream of stupidity than you have in the at least two threads we've talked in.

Your best response to my words about offering content and trying to get better as players is to compare me to Immortal?

Now who is fucking scrubby?

 

[Error404]

But guys he needs a 6 frame poke to deal with the block infinites that no longer exist.

 

[JDM]

You're clueless about Kotal. He doesn't even have 50/50s in Sun God. Of course he has to play footsies. The nuetral game and footsie game happens a lot faster in this game than in others, so I understand why you're confused.

---Guessing between B1xxCommand Throw and B14xxcommand throw or B14xxprojectile are all mixups, I know MKX has poisoned your mind but it's true. Just cause it's not high/low doesn't mean it's not a 50/50.

Here's some Sun God knowledge:

F1,B2 is -13 on block. Not special cancellable. --- Wait, F1,B2? Yes it's special cancellable.

B1 is safe, B12 is not, and B122 is not. ---- B12 is -8. That's like the closest you can be to being safe. So it's like a 1-2 frame punish with jab and you have to know they won't be cancelling on block into anything else. Lol ok.

The only tick throws in that sequence are B1 and B14. B14 doesn't combo midscreen on hit and is -13 on block. Correct.

So unless you go into the armorable MB Sun Stone, you're left unsafe and at risk. You could go the tick throw option in b14, but if it hits the throw whiffs and you CAN'T hitconfirm b14. ----Ok, still more guessing. I'm not saying everything he does will combo or be safe. Just that you have to guess a lot. And for the record, I said War God had 50/50s, And Sun God was basically the same shit, just with command grabs. He's unsafe on a lot of stuff but is still a bully that requires you to guess A LOT whenever he touches you. Let's not forget how good 114xxAir Throw is in these mixup situations. I *know* how to fight Kotal he's just really good and underrated and has a lot of braindead shit.

Do some homework.---- I train with the best Kotal in the world, I've done my homework,

Accepting shitposting only enables more shit posting. Is that a hard thing to understand? TYM is made almost entirely of shitposts, who cares?

Just because TYM does a stupid thing doesn't make it not a stupid thing. It just makes it an often practiced stupid thing. You know how you stop stupid things? By trying to be better. ----Good luck with making TYM better sir. You're doing gods work.

Yeah, I admit to trolling. Mostly because this thread was made two weeks ago when a poster released unbreakable Quan combos. I questioned those, too. I question just about everything I read. That's how you separate fact from fiction.9--- No it makes you look like you're downplaying, which you are. Lol@ saying those combos are situational. Just shows what the character can do and why he's so dumb.

Downplay? Many, many times I've said the character was extremely good, you can even look through my old status updates and the DAY after the patch I said Quan was the best in the game.

I write several paragraphs in multiple threads explaining Quan and offering Quan help, and proposing that we as a community explore the match ups, and I make the Quan community look bad? ---Offer help sure, but don't defend how stupid he is. He's really really dumb. Honestly has some of the most broken shit in a current era game. Let people complain about him, they should have an outlet to complain without some jackass saying some shit like "oh enough of this I'm so sick of these threads" Who are you?

How stupid are you?

I've offered more game knowledge, character knowledge and content while trolling this idiotic thread and answering your stream of stupidity than you have in the at least two threads we've talked in.

Your best response to my words about offering content and trying to get better as players is to compare me to Immortal?

Now who is fucking scrubby? -- Still you, knowledge doesn't make you any less of a scrub. Know what makes you a scrub? Wanting a 6f poke on a character like Quan chi. Haha

 

[Rude]

You're clueless about Kotal. He doesn't even have 50/50s in Sun God. Of course he has to play footsies. The nuetral game and footsie game happens a lot faster in this game than in others, so I understand why you're confused.

---Guessing between B1xxCommand Throw and B14xxcommand throw or B14xxprojectile are all mixups, I know MKX has poisoned your mind but it's true. Just cause it's not high/low doesn't mean it's not a 50/50.

Here's some Sun God knowledge:

F1,B2 is -13 on block. Not special cancellable. --- Wait, F1,B2? Yes it's special cancellable.

B1 is safe, B12 is not, and B122 is not. ---- B12 is -8. That's like the closest you can be to being safe. So it's like a 1-2 frame punish with jab and you have to know they won't be cancelling on block into anything else. Lol ok.

The only tick throws in that sequence are B1 and B14. B14 doesn't combo midscreen on hit and is -13 on block. Correct.

So unless you go into the armorable MB Sun Stone, you're left unsafe and at risk. You could go the tick throw option in b14, but if it hits the throw whiffs and you CAN'T hitconfirm b14. ----Ok, still more guessing. I'm not saying everything he does will combo or be safe. Just that you have to guess a lot. And for the record, I said War God had 50/50s, And Sun God was basically the same shit, just with command grabs. He's unsafe on a lot of stuff but is still a bully that requires you to guess A LOT whenever he touches you. Let's not forget how good 114xxAir Throw is in these mixup situations. I *know* how to fight Kotal he's just really good and underrated and has a lot of braindead shit.

Do some homework.---- I train with the best Kotal in the world, I've done my homework,

Accepting shitposting only enables more shit posting. Is that a hard thing to understand? TYM is made almost entirely of shitposts, who cares?

Just because TYM does a stupid thing doesn't make it not a stupid thing. It just makes it an often practiced stupid thing. You know how you stop stupid things? By trying to be better. ----Good luck with making TYM better sir. You're doing gods work.

Yeah, I admit to trolling. Mostly because this thread was made two weeks ago when a poster released unbreakable Quan combos. I questioned those, too. I question just about everything I read. That's how you separate fact from fiction.9--- No it makes you look like you're downplaying, which you are. Lol@ saying those combos are situational. Just shows what the character can do and why he's so dumb.

Downplay? Many, many times I've said the character was extremely good, you can even look through my old status updates and the DAY after the patch I said Quan was the best in the game.

I write several paragraphs in multiple threads explaining Quan and offering Quan help, and proposing that we as a community explore the match ups, and I make the Quan community look bad? ---Offer help sure, but don't defend how stupid he is. He's really really dumb. Honestly has some of the most broken shit in a current era game. Let people complain about him, they should have an outlet to complain without some jackass saying some shit like "oh enough of this I'm so sick of these threads" Who are you?

How stupid are you?

I've offered more game knowledge, character knowledge and content while trolling this idiotic thread and answering your stream of stupidity than you have in the at least two threads we've talked in.

Your best response to my words about offering content and trying to get better as players is to compare me to Immortal?

Now who is fucking scrubby? -- Still you, knowledge doesn't make you any less of a scrub. Know what makes you a scrub? Wanting a 6f poke on a character like Quan chi. Haha

Guessing is apart of every fighting game. You painting the broad brush stroke of saying all he is, is guessing shows your lack of knowledge. Even in MK9, you had to guess to get out of Cage pressure, Kabal pressure, etc. Was Cage not a footsie based character? Kotal Kahn is as well.

Asking questions isn't downplay. It's common sense. Many times when I've been wrong, I admitted it.

I like how you completely ignore context. It suits your otherwise flimsy talking points.

When I asked for the d1, it was pre patch. Pre Patch Quan suffered from block infinites from Dragonfire Liu Kang among others. No one knew that they were going to make the changes to the dash cancel pressure that they did. So all we had to go on was the knowledge we had at that time.

Now, post patch i don't think he needs the meterless damage he has. I don't think he should take as much meterless damage as he does, as I've said before

See, you're one of those guys that takes any kind of talk that doesn't fit your view and uses a broad, sweeping generalization to make your point.

Scrubby behavior is making 8 stealtg Nerf Cry threads. Scrubby behavior is ignoring people offering help to push an agenda. Scrubby behavior is making the same thread over and over and over again. There is a fine line between venting and bitching.

Imagine how much better these forums would be if you took all that time and energy devoted to tearing about a character and used it to talk about fighting said character?

This is supposed to be a haven for competitive play, is it not? Are the consistent Top 8 players spending their time making nerf threads or are they learning match ups?

Only on TYM would you get called scrubby for offering help in a match up, attempting to break down a character, and insisting that the community try to get better at the game rather than complain. Defend him how? By saying they need to return Skull and Bat Spark to pre-patch? Which is what I did in this exact thread.

That's how bad it's become and people like you, threads like these are part of the problem.