Tech - Summoner Quan Chi METERLESS 53% Corner Combo- Is this Fair?

[Rearawt]

Not especially. The age of patching has turned gamers into whiney vaginas.

Maybe, but it has also made the games themselves better.
Just don't listen to people.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Not especially. The age of patching has turned gamers into whiney vaginas.

Honestly, I don't know which I'd prefer, the balance issues present in day 1 MKX, or a TYM where everything wasn't constant downplay and whining for buffs.

 

[Rude]

Maybe, but it has also made the games themselves better.
Just don't listen to people.

Have they? Have they really?

I'm not sure you could objectively state that new FGs are better than older ones. I want to say Smash(Brawl?) is a 15+ year old N64 game that a huge portion of Smash fans prefer to Melee, and still makes the rounds at EVO today.

I could have the names mixed up, but you get the idea.

Conceptually I like the idea of dev support.

What I don't support is the entitled Sub-culture or "patch culture" that it inadvertently creates. Now instead of trying to improve ourselves, we spam the dev's Twitter demanding changes.

Is that objectively better?

 

[Rearawt]

I'm not sure you could objectively state that new FGs are better than older ones

I meant patched MKX is better than launch MKX.

Is that objectively better?

Is it objectively worse?
I don't mind this way. Take advantage of all the time you have to influence the direction of the game, then, when the devs stop listening and changing, explore the end result completely.

 

[SM StarGazer]

Not especially. The age of patching has turned gamers into whiney vaginas.

Who doesn't like wet vaginas tho.....

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Cry some more please. Your tears sustain me

 

[SaltShaker]

Maybe, but it has also made the games themselves better.

Strongly, strongly disagree.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Strongly, strongly disagree.

You and I usually agree on things it seems like, but in this case..

I think the patch culture has created several issues, but ultimately, an active period of patches early in the games life, then a small period much later in a games life, can THEORETICALLY make the game much better. The issue(S) arrise however, when the community feels like they are in control and when a dev proves to be as oddball and out of touch as NRS appear to be.

The fact of the matter is, a community should not drive the balance changes. There are too many personal agendas and too much lack of understanding as a whole. Players able to utilize a characters full potential are a tiny % of a community. So, a change that I feel might be necessary would very well launch a character into the stratosphere in competent hands. What I feel a character might need weakened, could chuck him in to the toilet.

So why don't we look to the 1% to drive balance changes? God in heaven no. please no. Not only do professional players have significant agendas (they should they so this for a living) but balancing a game for 1% of its player base is the perfect way to alienate the other 99%. The 1% help to fuel sales and keep the game relevant (tournies, etc) but the 99% fill the devs wallet.

The game developers should be making changes based on the metrics they set. We should be ignored, outside of extremely glaring issues that arrise, but if an issue is glaring enough the devs will find it.

This method puts aa lot of trust in the devs of course but we as the community should be learning to function within the set of systems we are.given. not.campaign to never learn those systems because we feel like we can bitch our way in to getting them changed. Then when the devs swoop in to make adjustments, we regroup, we adapt. Traditionally that is how games of all kinds have evolved and I feel like it should remain so.

Changes arent bad. An aggressive and condensed schedule of buffs to various system and character mechanics followed by long periods of stability to let the meta flesh itself out isn't a bad idea but giving the.community a say in matters is the wrong way to go about things.due to the entitlement environment it creates.

 

[JDM]

Bro. I kept quiet in this thread, but seriously half the shit in this post, you have absolutely no right calling anyone a scrub.

1. Doing gods work trying to make tym better? No. This website was not that bad until the end if IGAU and the beginning of MKX. Also known as the beginning of the era of the online scrub. Your response to that is tym is mostly shit posts so who cares? Seriously? In order to stop a bad habit, you gotta stop it from the source. That source being you and 80% of tym posting this stupid shit.

2. Quan has some if the most stupid stuff in a fighting game? Kabal, cyrax, martian man hunter, aquaman are all just as/ more stupid. And all these characters have defensive options. "But quan chi has a game breaking 6f d1 poke, Brows!" No. Shut up.

3. If someone has a good amount of knowledge on a game and actually knows what they're talking about is still a scrub? In order to succeed in a game, you need to UNDERSTAND said game and HAVE KNOWLEDGE on how the game works. If you have both of them, then you know what you're doing. If you know what you are doing in this game, you're still a scrub? Smart. Only way that works is if you just flat out suck.

4. Us quan mains before the patch are scrubs because we wanted a faster poke? So you're saying that quan chi being put in block infinite is okay? That's the only reason he got that. So liu kang, kotal kan, etc couldn't loop the same block strings that quan chi could not get out of. And that poke is only used right up close. D3 is still better because it has better range, more plus on hit and only -1 on block. D3 is +14 on hit I believe. So other than armlr you gotta respect what quan does next. D1 is -9 on block and +3 on hit. So nothing is guaranteed after a d1. Stop bitching about something that's not even a big deal. Like at all.

1.) No one is going to change the constant whining on TYM. How many times do I have to say this?

2.) MMH and Aquaman are not more stupid than Quan are you serious? Like cmon now. Quan practically unblockables you off everything, has incredible zoning too. MMH was super overrated and the only one doing ANYTHING with him with Jupiter. Only reason people act like MMH was so great (he was still top 3) was because of that thread REO made on here and everyone jump on MMH like he was gonna be the next Kabal. Quan is definitely more stupid than any character in Injustice even if he has no defense, his offense is way way too good.

4.) I've played Quan since week 2. His hyper offense was only offset by the fact that he had to worry about getting touched. Let's be real the "block infinites" were not true infinites but I know since tom brady made a video everyone wants to parrot him off like he's correct. You could take the hit, they could mess up and you could get an instant air NJP off if you wanted to risk it.. Was is still hard to get out? Of course, it should be. LOOK AT HIS OFFENSE. It is a big deal, lmao. The 6f poke alone has pretty much made him the best character in the game along with all these massive damage combos. And you're failing to see I have no agenda against Quan, he's my secondary, I just hate how people on TYM try to defend their bullshit characters because they don't want them nerfed. Guess what, it looks like Quan is definitely gonna get nerfed next patch since pretty much EVERYONE other than Quan mains think he's way too good. Get over it, you guys aren't gonna stop the majority of people thinking he's broken. People thought this before the last patch and he received HUGEEE buffs for no reason, lmfao.

 

[juicepouch]

My point is that TYM needs to make up it's mind. Hell, you were there when The Tanya Scare and Shinnok scares happened.

Their tournament placings were one of it's biggest talking points as to why it needed to be nerfed.

Either placing matters or it doesn't, but this pick and choose shit has to go.

Personally, anything can happen in a ft2 in an offline tournament setting. So I don't think it's as important.

Generally speaking, I'm against nerfing characters on general principle. I'd rather see low tiers buffed to match The pre-patch Tanyas and Boneshapers.

I disagree with this. Boneshaper with that guaranteed low was absolutely mind numbing to watch and fight. Same with vanilla Tanya. I'd rather they rip out the stuff that's shaded towards ridiculous early on so we don't have to play any longer with ridiculous character kits than is necessary

 

[RM NoBrows]

1.) No one is going to change the constant whining on TYM. How many times do I have to say this?

2.) MMH and Aquaman are not more stupid than Quan are you serious? Like cmon now. Quan practically unblockables you off everything, has incredible zoning too. MMH was super overrated and the only one doing ANYTHING with him with Jupiter. Only reason people act like MMH was so great (he was still top 3) was because of that thread REO made on here and everyone jump on MMH like he was gonna be the next Kabal. Quan is definitely more stupid than any character in Injustice even if he has no defense, his offense is way way too good.

4.) I've played Quan since week 2. His hyper offense was only offset by the fact that he had to worry about getting touched. Let's be real the "block infinites" were not true infinites but I know since tom brady made a video everyone wants to parrot him off like he's correct. You could take the hit, they could mess up and you could get an instant air NJP off if you wanted to risk it.. Was is still hard to get out? Of course, it should be. LOOK AT HIS OFFENSE. It is a big deal, lmao. The 6f poke alone has pretty much made him the best character in the game along with all these massive damage combos. And you're failing to see I have no agenda against Quan, he's my secondary, I just hate how people on TYM try to defend their bullshit characters because they don't want them nerfed. Guess what, it looks like Quan is definitely gonna get nerfed next patch since pretty much EVERYONE other than Quan mains think he's way too good. Get over it, you guys aren't gonna stop the majority of people thinking he's broken. People thought this before the last patch and he received HUGEEE buffs for no reason, lmfao.

Didn't read any of this because you can't even count. Dumb ass

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

So who's willing to make the "How to fight Quan Chi" thread in order shut these guys up?

 

[SaltShaker]

You and I usually agree on things it seems like, but in this case..

I think the patch culture has created several issues, but ultimately, an active period of patches early in the games life, then a small period much later in a games life, can THEORETICALLY make the game much better. The issue(S) arrise however, when the community feels like they are in control and when a dev proves to be as oddball and out of touch as NRS appear to be.

The fact of the matter is, a community should not drive the balance changes. There are too many personal agendas and too much lack of understanding as a whole. Players able to utilize a characters full potential are a tiny % of a community. So, a change that I feel might be necessary would very well launch a character into the stratosphere in competent hands. What I feel a character might need weakened, could chuck him in to the toilet.

So why don't we look to the 1% to drive balance changes? God in heaven no. please no. Not only do professional players have significant agendas (they should they so this for a living) but balancing a game for 1% of its player base is the perfect way to alienate the other 99%. The 1% help to fuel sales and keep the game relevant (tournies, etc) but the 99% fill the devs wallet.

The game developers should be making changes based on the metrics they set. We should be ignored, outside of extremely glaring issues that arrise, but if an issue is glaring enough the devs will find it.

This method puts aa lot of trust in the devs of course but we as the community should be learning to function within the set of systems we are.given. not.campaign to never learn those systems because we feel like we can bitch our way in to getting them changed. Then when the devs swoop in to make adjustments, we regroup, we adapt. Traditionally that is how games of all kinds have evolved and I feel like it should remain so.

Changes arent bad. An aggressive and condensed schedule of buffs to various system and character mechanics followed by long periods of stability to let the meta flesh itself out isn't a bad idea but giving the.community a say in matters is the wrong way to go about things.due to the entitlement environment it creates.

You raise good points, but here's why I feel so strong about the past era being better than the patch era. The main argument for the patch era being better is theoretical. In theory it should be better, but in practice it's significantly worse. Why?

1) Games are rushed. Back in the day you got the FULL game. Fleshed out to the max and released. Yea there were some strong or even banned characters in certain games, but overall they did much better jobs. Now people like NRS release games at 40% completion and drop multiple patches to basically still develop the game while you're playing. I hate this approach as to simply playing a finished game Day 1.

2) FGC becomes shit. Even if we had 0% of the input in changes it wouldn't stop people from crying to buff/nerf everything. I myself have called for buffs in the past when I've never done it in other games like Tekken. It only happens because everyone knows another patch will come. Had the game been released actually finished with no expectation of patching then there wouldn't be any of the whining that there is now daily.

3) People leveled up better. Much faster and more often. Not only were you playing one consistent game, not having to relearn things all the time and adjust MU's, etc, but players had a different attitude. No one would care about QC back then because everyone would know they were forced to handle him as is so they sucked it up and grinded it out. OP characters were selected and no one gave a damn. I've heard more about Quan Chi than muchhhhh stronger characters back then that we had to fight. You had to fight Chun-Li in 3rd Strike? You dealt with it. You learned what to do and tried your best. Nowadays? Look for NRS or any company to bail you out.

There are other reasons as well, but these are my main ones.

 

[Rude]

You raise good points, but here's why I feel so strong about the past era being better than the patch era. The main argument for the patch era being better is theoretical. In theory it should be better, but in practice it's significantly worse. Why?

1) Games are rushed. Back in the day you got the FULL game. Fleshed out to the max and released. Yea there were some strong or even banned characters in certain games, but overall they did much better jobs. Now people like NRS release games at 40% completion and drop multiple patches to basically still develop the game while you're playing. I hate this approach as to simply playing a finished game Day 1.

2) FGC becomes shit. Even if we had 0% of the input in changes it wouldn't stop people from crying to buff/nerf everything. I myself have called for buffs in the past when I've never done it in other games like Tekken. It only happens because everyone knows another patch will come. Had the game been released actually finished with no expectation of patching then there wouldn't be any of the whining that there is now daily.

3) People leveled up better. Much faster and more often. Not only were you playing one consistent game, not having to relearn things all the time and adjust MU's, etc, but players had a different attitude. No one would care about QC back then because everyone would know they were forced to handle him as is so they sucked it up and grinded it out. OP characters were selected and no one gave a damn. I've heard more about Quan Chi than muchhhhh stronger characters back then that we had to fight. You had to fight Chun-Li in 3rd Strike? You dealt with it. You learned what to do and tried your best. Nowadays? Look for NRS or any company to bail you out.

There are other reasons as well, but these are my main ones.

Nailed it. GG X-2 Eddie was fucked up, but you either dealt with it or you didn't play.

 

[GAV]

 

[JDM]

Didn't read any of this because you can't even count. Dumb ass

Didn't address 3 lmao.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You raise good points, but here's why I feel so strong about the past era being better than the patch era. The main argument for the patch era being better is theoretical. In theory it should be better, but in practice it's significantly worse. Why?

1) Games are rushed. Back in the day you got the FULL game. Fleshed out to the max and released. Yea there were some strong or even banned characters in certain games, but overall they did much better jobs. Now people like NRS release games at 40% completion and drop multiple patches to basically still develop the game while you're playing. I hate this approach as to simply playing a finished game Day 1.

2) FGC becomes shit. Even if we had 0% of the input in changes it wouldn't stop people from crying to buff/nerf everything. I myself have called for buffs in the past when I've never done it in other games like Tekken. It only happens because everyone knows another patch will come. Had the game been released actually finished with no expectation of patching then there wouldn't be any of the whining that there is now daily.

3) People leveled up better. Much faster and more often. Not only were you playing one consistent game, not having to relearn things all the time and adjust MU's, etc, but players had a different attitude. No one would care about QC back then because everyone would know they were forced to handle him as is so they sucked it up and grinded it out. OP characters were selected and no one gave a damn. I've heard more about Quan Chi than muchhhhh stronger characters back then that we had to fight. You had to fight Chun-Li in 3rd Strike? You dealt with it. You learned what to do and tried your best. Nowadays? Look for NRS or any company to bail you out.

There are other reasons as well, but these are my main ones.

Nailed it. GG X-2 Eddie was fucked up, but you either dealt with it or you didn't play.

You know, I agree with both of you, and I'm impressed to see that you aren't denying reality anymore Rude, by recognising patch changes have been directly being affected by community outcry and the correlation is absolutely undeniable at this point and one of the most negative aspects of TYM - Shujink said himself he knows he's directly responsible for Quans buffs and is proud of it. So where I'm going with this is, I think it's important to remember that Quan Chi is in a bad state simply because he is one of the characters whose community DID all the stuff we are talking about here. Not a shot at you either Rude. I just feel like the anti-Quan procession seems to be copping a lot of the flack in these posts when it's important to remember that it's really a by-product of QC players not being able to just "deal with it" and doing exactly what it is that you guys are talking about, which is complaining until they got buffs. It goes both ways and if anything most people are just trying to undo the damage done by Shujink. I personally don't give a shit how hard this game gets and I play a low tier character and not a high tier one because I like it like this, I'm complaining because the mentality shown whem NRS employees listened to a stupid one sided agenda and totally bought the narrative that QC needs buffs, and the mentality of the players willing to complete destroy balance and push self serving agendas. Shujink is the poster boy for downplay now for good reason. I don't know whose worse out of the players or the devs for supporting it anymore I don't know who is worse at this point, players like Shujink are appalling and I've lost so much respect for him over recent months, but at the end of the day he's a competitive player competing in the shark tank NRS has created - a lot of people are downplaying their character, like you see HoneyBee doing similar shit with DVorah, Dink just happened to get lucky (well HoneyBee did too but not as badly), as someone always does, hence why people always downplay so fiercely at all, creating the retarded circle that has left has left us with the worst competitive community / forum out of any of the games I've played. By a large margin. Maybe there isn't enough staff to do an efficient job at the moment I don't know I don't want to blame specific employees, but what I do know is that NRS needs to employ balance staff capable of actually recognising balance needs on their own, and doing their job independently and no just jumping onboard with whoever they personally feel provides the stronger TYM arguments, it's fucking destroying this community man.




TYM Going practically unmoderated doesn't help us either.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Wow wow you guys.....

 

[GAV]

 

[HuttonMD]

@I GOT HANDS now I agree with most of what you said but even if dink talked to the NRS developer and told him about adding a faster poke I highly doubt that developer ran back to the office and was like " hey guys I talked to dink and he said QC needs a 6f d1 so we should do that for him".

These decisions were are made long before the patch comes out

 

[WidowPuppy]

Jacqui's D4 is too fast, buff Paulo. Alright, that's retarded enough... my work is done here.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

You raise good points, but here's why I feel so strong about the past era being better than the patch era. The main argument for the patch era being better is theoretical. In theory it should be better, but in practice it's significantly worse. Why?

1) Games are rushed. Back in the day you got the FULL game. Fleshed out to the max and released. Yea there were some strong or even banned characters in certain games, but overall they did much better jobs. Now people like NRS release games at 40% completion and drop multiple patches to basically still develop the game while you're playing. I hate this approach as to simply playing a finished game Day 1.

2) FGC becomes shit. Even if we had 0% of the input in changes it wouldn't stop people from crying to buff/nerf everything. I myself have called for buffs in the past when I've never done it in other games like Tekken. It only happens because everyone knows another patch will come. Had the game been released actually finished with no expectation of patching then there wouldn't be any of the whining that there is now daily.

3) People leveled up better. Much faster and more often. Not only were you playing one consistent game, not having to relearn things all the time and adjust MU's, etc, but players had a different attitude. No one would care about QC back then because everyone would know they were forced to handle him as is so they sucked it up and grinded it out. OP characters were selected and no one gave a damn. I've heard more about Quan Chi than muchhhhh stronger characters back then that we had to fight. You had to fight Chun-Li in 3rd Strike? You dealt with it. You learned what to do and tried your best. Nowadays? Look for NRS or any company to bail you out.

There are other reasons as well, but these are my main ones.

I agree with you in practice, just not in theory. If the process was ironed out and functioned like it SHOULD function, it would work well. Another important aspect, I feel, would be that the developer gave a rough change schedule, so we knew the time frame in which the game would be in flux, then knew when it would settle in to a relative state of constancy. i can see marketing reasons this wouldn't be idea, but I'm just speaking from a theory standpoint.

But I do agree with you that the current mentality the constant changes have fostered has been very hand-holdy and instead of just gritting your teeth and saying 'ok, fuck it, I have to deal with it, so I'll dive in and figure it out' its more like, 'Ok, lets make another post bitching because its easier to campaign to change this, than to learn to fight against it. Hell, we have a couple people in this thread offering games and MU experience. Offering to teach people HOW TO BEAT THEIR CHARACTER but I haven't seen anyone take them up on the offer... All I see is people continue to scream for the nerf bat.

I can illustrate this pretty clearly.. I main Decapre in SFIV. She is a Quan-like character in that she is VERY strong and her playstyle is different that a lot of other characters in the game. Playing against Decapre requires a different approach. A lot of the one-size fits all stuff that applies to most of the cast doesn't work, either at all, or slightly differently, on her. As a result of this, I have gotten a lot of hate for playing Decapre. But ya know what? If you ask most top tier players they will just kinda sigh, curl their lip and say "Learn the MU, she's not that bad". Why? Cause she isn't. People misunderstand what it happening and I can abuse that to steamroll people SO easily. I cant tell you how many times I have scored an early knockdown and literally just done crossup groundpounds on wake-up until they are dead. For like two-three games IN A ROW, until they quit in rage and anger and send me mean messages.

Now, I played a guy the other day who has vastly more experience than I do. He is a *way* better player than I am, but I was winning 3/4 of our matches because he just doesn't run up against Decapre often and he didn't know the MU. A lot of the shit his Ibuki could normally do, I could very effectively deal with. Instead of calling me names and screamning that Decapre was OP, he said "Hey, I dont know the MU very well and you play her really different than most people.. do you have any time to take this to the lab and help me kinda figure it out?" to which I said, "Fuck yeah".

The result of our hour and a half in the lab, where I could break down what I was doing and explain exactly what it all meant in a broader sense, and where he could have me repeat myself so he could work on various options, etc was that when we played the following day, he got better and better, until by the end of the set he was beating ME 3/4 times, because he was the better player to begin with. He didn't whine, he just shrugged and said ok, I gotta figure this out. If I had said ":Nah dont have time" to try and keep my secrets he would have just found another Decapre player, or he would hit the lab himself and worked it all out, etc etc.

Yes, Quan is no Decapre and this is not SFIV and you aren't playing Ibuki, I know its not an exact correlation, but ya know what? Quan is losing matches. I am NOT trying to bring up the 'Do tourney results matter' point, BUT, since he hasn't perfected any tournaments, he is losing to someone. Some how. Someone knows how to beat him. Someone understands what he does and how to counter it and work against it. Ya know what else? That someone is a person. Like you. They did it. They actively DO it. So, ya know, you can to. If he gets nerfed, he gets nerfed. If he doesnt, learn what your options are.

MKX was my first fighting game and I remember really early on I was playing.. ehh... Takeda maybe, or Erron Black, I forget, and the two or three people I found to play regularly against were all GM Sub players. I was CONVINCED the first couple weeks that GM Sub was the most OP piece of crap I could even imagine existing and he was bullshit and there was no answer and yadda yadda. I didnt make any posts about it, but in the back of my mind I was smiling because I was like 'Dude gon' get NERFED SUCKA'. Then I watched my very first MKX tournament and I watched like two GM subs do well, but no more than well. They played on equal footing with the other characters. Players that I knew were leagues ahead of me were going toe to toe and the matches were competitive and close. If they could beat or hang with something so impossibly OP as GM Sub, then so the fuck could I. So.. Lab. I went to the lab and got a GM player to donate a little of his time, and when he got bored with helping I just fiddled around on my own. I really didnt play the game for like a week, I spent all my game time figuring out GM Sub. In the end, when I played those guys again, I still lost constantly, but I was losing to THEM and not the character. The whole feel of the fights was different, and I did squeak by with occasional wins here and there because I understood the character and what was actually happening. It was no longer some mystic bullshit frozen voodoo. It was a strong character with a strong ability that forced me to play vs him in a specific way.

Then a patch hit and ever since then I cant play online any more.

But seriously folks, if someone with as little experience or innate ability as me can learn to adapt and apply those adaptations in real matches and noticeably increase my success rate.. Then really, a mentally handicapped emu should be able to do something similar. You all should be able to do something similar.

Just level up for gods sake and let come what may. I would welcome the chance to learn the Quan MU because that would mean I was able to actually play the game =/

 

[Rude]

I still don't think Paulo ONLY listens to TYM and all buff requests. The Kenshi community have been demanding buffs since Day One and got nothing.

Same for the Jason players.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Like....TYM is one of many factors they take into account.

If Dink really is responsible for the d1, why didn't NRS listen to Pig's Kenshi buff demands?

Or Tom's Clone Saga. There seems to be some inconsistency.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I still don't think Paulo ONLY listens to TYM and all buff requests. The Kenshi community have been demanding buffs since Day One and got nothing.

Same for the Jason players.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Like....TYM is one of many factors they take into account.

If Dink really is responsible for the d1, why didn't NRS listen to Pig's Kenshi buff demands?

Or Tom's Clone Saga. There seems to be some inconsistency.

Because if they implemented absolutely everything TYM asked for, they'd be buffing and nerfing everything at the same time

I think they just read some of the arguments that get the most publicity, and if the argument convinces them they put it in

Unfortunately I believe the person doing this is a poor judge of character and shouldn't be doing this at all and should be making their own decisions

Just my opinion




I can't just make a thread asking for a buff and expect it to be implemented next patch. As said, some people happen to say the right things and sway balance their way

 

[Rude]

Because if they implemented absolutely everything TYM asked for, they'd be buffing and nerfing everything at the same time

I think they just read some of the arguments that get the most publicity, and if the argument convinces them they put it in

Unfortunately I believe the person doing this is a poor judge of character and shouldn't be doing this at all and should be making their own decisions

Just my opinion




I can't just make a thread asking for a buff and expect it to be implemented next patch. As said, some people happen to say the right things and sway balance their way

I think it's a combination of things. TYM, the dev's decisions, QA tester feedback, etc.