General/Other Q&A with Kung Lao

[BenGmanUk]

I can post up my guide if needed. It contains the main BnBs and a few thoughts/ideas, essential frame data etc. I'm certainly not a KL expert by any means but have spent a decent amount of time finding his best BnBs, AAs etc. Must of the combos were from Toms guide before he removed it anyway.

 

[ZtrideRz]

Tom removed the guide because he made the living guide I think. I mean why give people stuff for free when can charge you instead. Only cheap anyway so no complaints here.

 

[gdf]

only reason i suggested PerfectMindGame and gdf is because you guys seem the most active on the KL forum among the few regulars we have here. im on here most ours of the day at work hahaha.

lol, you're good. Probably should make the guide more community based rather than focus on a handful of people.

 

[WayoftheFist]

which is why I propose a KL community guide. was i really the only one who noticed the magical disappearance of Tom Bradys "Revised Combo List" thread? moreso, i remember his post stating "Ill be back to share new tech and observations soon" - it wasnt worded exactly that way but he said something to that effect. then he deleted the thread?

we need a community guide and observations thread where OP updates the original post. i nominate myself, or gdf or PerfectMindGame to host the thread. basically take pride in what we can try to do for thr KLs out there. threadmaker would compile info regularly so the original post would be up to date.

I'm all for this and would appreciate it a lot. I think one of the biggest things for a Kung Lao player to drill into their head is to punish with his bnb that starts with 21, spin and not with 112, spin for the sake of speed. It's made the difference in getting a punish and not getting it for me quite a few times. Also with 2,1 you can condition them to block high then go for 2,4 and its options that include using one of his safe overheads. I hope something I said was useful, I'm trying to pick the hat-man back up after a lot of frustrating time spent with Sub-Zero.

 

[Big Pampering]

I'm all for this and would appreciate it a lot. I think one of the biggest things for a Kung Lao player to drill into their head is to punish with his bnb that starts with 21, spin and not with 112, spin for the sake of speed. It's made the difference in getting a punish and not getting it for me quite a few times. Also with 2,1 you can condition them to block high then go for 2,4 and its options that include using one of his safe overheads. I hope something I said was useful, I'm trying to pick the hat-man back up after a lot of frustrating time spent with Sub-Zero.

the best punishing starter is indeed 21, the reason people use 112 during other situations is because you can hit confirm it. about the spin being fast its a 1 frame difference so you shouldnt worry about which is faster, but the 2 whiffs on low hitboxes for example so its just to be sure you can hit that punish if you use spin instead.


and why would people block high during 21?

 

[WayoftheFist]

the best punishing starter is indeed 21, the reason people use 112 during other situations is because you can hit confirm it. about the spin being fast its a 1 frame difference so you shouldnt worry about which is faster, but the 2 whiffs on low hitboxes for example so its just to be sure you can hit that punish if you use spin instead.


and why would people block high during 21?

Good Point. I guess the better mix-up is using the overhead. I may have phrased my first post poorly too, I meant the speed difference in 2 starters vs. 1 starters which if memory serves me right is 3 frames. Good point about the hitboxes and why nobody would be conditioned to block high from 21. I was simply thinking that if an opponent blocked a couple 2,1 strings they might open up for 2,4 thinking they don't need to worry about the low hit.

 

[ZtrideRz]

I use 2-1 then mix in a b333 sometimes I never 112 b333.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

This might be a noob thing, but if I condition opponents enough after 112 or 1121 I can cancel 112 into b33spin bnb and catch them 80% of the time. This viable or is it a parlor trick I should drop?

QM


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[BenGmanUk]

The way I look at it is that its not ever worth doing 11 on its own. 112 should always be thrown out as its simple to hit confirm into spin. If its blocked, they have to guess if you're going to stop at 112 or 1121. The options from there could be:

Stop string and throw
d3, 24 options
24 options
21 options
cross over
cross over and teleport mid jump if they like to AA
teleport~3 (can work against high hit box characters)
spin (If you know they will poke after 112)

The problem with b33 is that its start-up is 13 frames so can easily be interrupted. It will no doubt work online but probably not offline.

 

[miloPKL]

11 has much more frame advantage on hit than 112. you can stop the enemy dead in their tracks and 'reset' the situation to your slight advantage, if you didnt have the confidence to follow through with a whole combo because you are poking out pressure, or you are rushing down an opponent and stopping your combo early before you start another string. this is a great opportunity for a throw. thats my experience with 11 and why its useful to stop at 11 every now and then.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

The way I look at it is that its not ever worth doing 11 on its own. 112 should always be thrown out as its simple to hit confirm into spin. If its blocked, they have to guess if you're going to stop at 112 or 1121. The options from there could be:

Stop string and throw
d3, 24 options
24 options
21 options
cross over
cross over and teleport mid jump if they like to AA
teleport~3 (can work against high hit box characters)
spin (If you know they will poke after 112)

The problem with b33 is that its start-up is 13 frames so can easily be interrupted. It will no doubt work online but probably not offline.

Noted. Thanks


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[BenGmanUk]

11 has much more frame advantage on hit than 112. you can stop the enemy dead in their tracks and 'reset' the situation to your slight advantage, if you didnt have the confidence to follow through with a whole combo because you are poking out pressure, or you are rushing down an opponent and stopping your combo early before you start another string. this is a great opportunity for a throw. thats my experience with 11 and why its useful to stop at 11 every now and then.

Well 11 is only 2 frames advantage more than 112 on hit and stopping at 11 on hit means you just gave up 32% no meter. I'll concede that its good to mix things up and not become predictable though.

 

[miloPKL]

well in the case you go for 112, cross over punch into teleport 3, a 11 grants the opponent even less time to react accordingly because they have that additional two frames of concern. i also have a lot of success with 11>throw. i can not hit confirm in every single situation with 100% accuracy. that extra 2 frames of advantage can really slow things down in tight situations. in my opinion.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I like sneaking in a d4~tele 3. +12 ftw

 

[ZtrideRz]

B333 is for corner punishment imo, you are far better mixing 112 with 2-4 overhead if they block the overhead use f2 or bait a jump in. B333 is easy to anticipate. I sometimes use it also as a reset combo.. example.. 21 b33 ex hat 112 spin dk 2 ex hat 1 1 2 4 3-1 2. 51 dmg 2 bars meter used.

It's like baiting a jump in with a spin is not always the best option whenever they jump and u dk them roll into them and spin this is a combo starter then end with 1 1 2 4 1-3 2.

 

[Big Pampering]

Guys I think this is an unbreakarable combo after the 24. and is very useful to not allow the opponent to break and close the round.

24 ex hat -dash in 212121 for chip, it does little above 20% with chip I dont know how much wing chun punches chip exactly but it is definitely at least above 5% and a blocked wing chun punch gives you almost one bar back so you dont have to worry about wasting your meter.

But this is a combo for punishing purposes only since 24 is not hitconfirmable if people block the hat youre in for a combo punishment yourself

 

[Big Pampering]

The way I look at it is that its not ever worth doing 11 on its own. 112 should always be thrown out as its simple to hit confirm into spin. If its blocked, they have to guess if you're going to stop at 112 or 1121. The options from there could be:

Stop string and throw
d3, 24 options
24 options
21 options
cross over
cross over and teleport mid jump if they like to AA
teleport~3 (can work against high hit box characters)
spin (If you know they will poke after 112)

The problem with b33 is that its start-up is 13 frames so can easily be interrupted. It will no doubt work online but probably not offline.

b3 is 11 frames, b33 is 13 frames, but you need to know the b3 startup which its all about. the problem with b3 is not the speed at all since 11 frames is hella fast, the problem is the range since you need to be almost right in peoples face for it to connect. It is a bit hard to hit confirm as well, the setup I use for b3 is after a succesful d3.

about the b33 spin, did you guys know that you dont have to hitconfirm it in the corner, you basically do b333 in the corner and if it actually hits you have more than enough time to get a spin in, and do a few sets of 1 1 1 into 24,1+2.

when an opponent is almost at the corner you can do b333 teleport 3(b333 sends opponend into the corner, teleport 3 will juggle) into spin 42 1+2.

24 is a very good string and people have to respect the follow up low hat or overhead so they keep blocking most of the time which allows you another set of 24 for chip. when they uppercut or poke you out of it you can use a risky spin after a blocked 24(imo a worthwhile guessing game, much like after a blocked low hat prepatch, will he spin or not?) against certain characters you want to play safer. in that case I would use 24, 212121 for chip.

IMO kung lao isnt about raw damage but about all the chip options he has, the spin people need to respect so much during situations where people can pressure you afther they blocked your attack, his mobility and in general safe pressure, this character is also the character that has access to ridiculous amounts of meter compared to the rest of the character roster.

sorry for the long post guys lol, its just a small part of things I found out about Kung lao in the last couple of weeks. and looking at the forums there is no real way to know whether this is known or not.

 

[gdf]

It's okay PerfectMindGame, after the patch Kung Lao players needed to get their bearings on him right, mostly due to him being a brainless character pre-patch for the most part.

 

[ZtrideRz]

Can't believe they took out infinite low hat and made his spin punishable how weak they trying to make him.. I think he should have cyrax dmg combos.

 

[Big Pampering]

Can't believe they took out infinite low hat and made his spin punishable how weak they trying to make him.. I think he should have cyrax dmg combos.

I smell a troll, but Im going to respond anyway.

could you just stop the rant about his nerfs? yes some nerfs were somewhat unnecessary but he can now make use of his other options instead of low hatting people all day.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

^^wurd. He's still a bastard to play with/against


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[gdf]

Kung Lao mirrors are ass. I hate not having air mobility because the other guy also has air mobility and a 6 frame anti-air.
*gasp* Now I know what other people feel.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Don't forget the low hat and 24 shenanigans being done on you for a change...oy


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[ZtrideRz]

I smell a troll, but Im going to respond anyway.

could you just stop the rant about his nerfs? yes some nerfs were somewhat unnecessary but he can now make use of his other options instead of low hatting people all day.

Damn u got me.

 

[WinterWolf94]

is standing 3 to low hat, safe on block? it seems to have enough push back