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Question - Hish-Qu-Ten [Pre-XL] Are any Predator mains worried about him getting nerfed?

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jokey77

Character Loyalist
His defence isnt the worst in the game. Cmaaan....
Name one char that has worse defence...

Super hard mode: name one that is higher on the tier list.

Dvorah and Takeda come to mind, but that armored sting-move has a decent start-up at least. Takeda has a strong wakeup-teleport (SR, Lasher) or an armored launching uppercut (ronin). I couldnt think of any other character with comparable bad defensive options...
 

Wigy

There it is...
Name one char that has worse defence...

Super hard mode: name one that is higher on the tier list.

Dvorah and Takeda come to mind, but that armored sting-move has a decent start-up at least. Takeda has a strong wakeup-teleport (SR, Lasher) or an armored launching uppercut (ronin). I couldnt think of any other character with comparable bad defensive options...
d'vora and quan are both worse.
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Can we buff Hunter/Warrior? Without HQT's godlike zoning Predator gets shit on. Repeatedly. His wake up options aren't the greatest. In hunter you can zone him out entirely and disrespect the hell out of traps. Warriors the only one with other armor moves and they're so damn slow and negative on block.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
First: I don't see anyone compete successfully with Predator. Last time I looked, there was just one Predator ranked within the "online top 100" on PSN EU. By the way this was me and I was never any better than maybe rank 35 or so. It is nt like Predator would dominate the scene like, let's say Lao or Tanya. Even Reo, who might be among the technically best players out there, is only mildly successful with HQT.

It is true, that HQT has great mixups and a great offense in general. Yet he might have the worst (!) defense in the whole game. Even Quan can link his 6f poke into rune or use his escaping armor move. Pred relies entirely on d3 into lowplasma. Thus if this string is touched in any way, Pred might be ruined entirely, if the recoveryframes are handled withou caution. Not because of his offense, but because of his defense!

... unless of couse he gets something in return. He simply needs defensive options (like he has in warrior). If he gets these, I would be fine with plenty of nerfs to his offense. I could even live with a nerf to ex-straightplasma, which might very well be his most stupid move right now.

I think his damage is fine. He doesnt get any big damage out if his true 50/50s as these always include ex-lowplasma. They are under 40% for 1 bar and thus subpar. But if he does get defensive buffs, then reducing the scaling of his scimitar combos might be fair.
wtf am i reading this is character with top 3 pokes in the game
very good pressure
very good zoning
possible the best njp in the game
possibly the best spacing in the game
his dmg potential is possibly top 5 in the game
and you're saying he's not that good?
saying no one uses him at majors?
like forever king wasn't maining him for a while
actually i just realized your name is jokey so you're probably trolling
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
d'vora and quan are both worse.
... i dont see anything that quan couldn't do better than pred. As i wrote d1~ex runetrap is better than d3~ex lowplasma. Faster startup, easier to hitconfirm, no gap between shots, propably even leads to more damage, ...

As I already said: Dvorah might be indeed. This being said I see her in the lowtier and want to have her buffed. Bad example, but you wont find another...
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
wtf am i reading this is character with top 3 pokes in the game
very good pressure
very good zoning
possible the best njp in the game
possibly the best spacing in the game
his dmg potential is possibly top 5 in the game
and you're saying he's not that good?
saying no one uses him at majors?
like forever king wasn't maining him for a while
actually i just realized your name is jokey so you're probably trolling
No doubt, his offense is great. Both: his mixups and his zoning. I won't deny that. When I beat a good Tanya, then this is because I maintain constant pressure. This is something Predator is capable of like just a few other characters. His offense is easily top 5.

I even think that Predator has better offensive options than Tanya. Still: it is more likely that tanya kills me once she gets her blockstrings going. It feels like a 6-4 matchup at best. This shows perfectly that offense is just one aspect of the game.

A while back I didn't take this into account either and thought that Predator was Top 3. It is not like I would downplay him. Just search for my older posts on Tym. However his horrible defence made him no great pick during the last meta which was dominated by rushdownchars (kung lao, liu kang, tanya, ...).

If these rushdown chars get nerfed (like it seems), then Pred might raise in tiers. However you have to take his bad defence into account when you demand nerfs. Right now he definitly is not Top 5, maybe not even Top 10.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
Right now he definitly is not Top 5, maybe not even Top 10.
again WTF lol
for me he's always been top 5 since release
and his defense is bad not terrible. his defense is better than quan takeda d'vorah,
arguably kenshi, blood god, tremor
i agree it's bad cus it's slow but not so slow that he isn't top 5.
the only time it's consistely broken is on hard knock downs. in every other situation he has access to ex lazer which is stupid fast and leads to combo and may be plus on block don't remember
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Pretty pointless to maintain a discussion, when you dont even explain your reasons. Especially when you ignore mine.

Saying Tremor had worse defensive options makes me think that you got no clue at all. I guess, I am done with you.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
He has that one jailing cancel of f12 but I agree. Scimatar stab is -14 everyone can punish it and reducing the frames more wouldn't matter at high levels anyway.

Universally I hope they reduce F2's frames to something that hits before the match is over, change the frame data on B3D2, and reduce the recovery on his air specials but especially Hunter's trap.

Hqt is in a good spot.
what does f12 jail into?
 

omooba

fear the moobs
Pretty pointless to maintain a discussion, when you dont even explain your reasons. Especially when you ignore mine.

Saying Tremor had worse defensive options makes me think that you got no clue at all. I guess, I am done with you.
only thing wrong with pred's defense is his armor? right? im assuming this cus you didn't explain why u just said it is and all those character's i mentioned have either worse armor or almost as bad. difference is he has waaay better pokes
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
only thing wrong with pred's defense is his armor? right? im assuming this cus you didn't explain why u just said it is and all those character's i mentioned have either worse armor or almost as bad. difference is he has waaay better pokes
Having no armor move does hurt severly.

The issue is a bit more complex though. His fastest poke has 7f startup (while others have 6f). Besides d3 cant be hitconfirmed by itself. Without fast mids to follow-up, Pred has to commit to one of his slow strings (especially b311), which comes with the risk of getting blown up in the process.

The lack of fast strings makes d3~lowplasma extremly important. One has to abuse the (hitconfirmable) stagger.

Changing the start-up of lowplasma might make it easier to block the lowplasma even after having been hit by the d3 and gain frameadvantage. Raising the recovery frames would make it easier to make use of these plusframes. Both would hurt his bad defense even further.

I once suggested to make b1 a 10f mid and to improve its cancel advantage (for plasmacancels). This would help him a lot and improve the rushdown aspect of hqt. I could perfectly live with mildly nerfed plasma in return.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
Having no armor move does hurt severly.

The issue is a bit more complex though. His fastest poke has 7f startup (while others have 6f). Besides d3 cant be hitconfirmed by itself. Without fast mids to follow-up, Pred has to commit to one of his slow strings (especially b311), which comes with the risk of getting blown up in the process.

The lack of fast strings makes d3~lowplasma extremly important. One has to abuse the (hitconfirmable) stagger.

Changing the start-up of lowplasma might make it easier to block the lowplasma even after having been hit by the d3 and gain frameadvantage. Raising the recovery frames would make it easier to make use of these plusframes. Both would hurt his bad defense even further.

I once suggested to make b1 a 10f mid and to improve its cancel advantage (for plasmacancels). This would help him a lot and improve the rushdown aspect of hqt. I could perfectly live with mildly nerfed plasma in return.
I'm done with you
 
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