Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

[xInfra Deadx]

GL/Ares is 4-6. It isn't THAT good for GL.

 

[Peckapowa]

i think zod gives gl issues with lasers, serious issues on knockdown, once u block a mb or a full charged ur like dead

 

[Orochi]

GL/Ares is 4-6. It isn't THAT good for GL.

Wait you saying Ares wins?

 

[Orochi]

Also Zatanna vs GL feels pretty bad... I think she's the real threat, if you fight deg in a tourney make sure to counter pick lol.

 

[Ashenar]

Also Zatanna vs GL feels pretty bad... I think she's the real threat, if you fight deg in a tourney make sure to counter pick lol.

I figured you would find out. It's pretty rough he spoke really well about you.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Wait you saying Ares wins?

No. I'm saying it's not as horrendous as Denzell claimed it was. GL still wins the matchup.

 

[Orochi]

I figured you would find out. It's pretty rough he spoke really well about you.

He's a cool guy and his Zatanna is def on another level than everyone else's. Here's the video take it as you wish, I'm not sure if it's enough to determine numbers since it is online play. Maybe there's something else I could've done. Zatanna matches start at 24:50.

No. I'm saying it's not as horrendous as Denzell claimed it was. GL still wins the matchup.

Oh I def agree, specially with the teleport buffs GL can't just do b13 against Ares every knockdown. Ares is not as hopeless as he once was.

 

[Endeavor]

this is the most joker-ignorant statement ive ever heard.

green lantern is one of jokers worst matchups at 7-3

It's an opinion, that's why the post starts with the words "I think". Yes I am joker ignorant, though I bet that's really surprising cause the joker players are so common, and the good ones are even more common right...

 

[G4S KT]

He's a cool guy and his Zatanna is def on another level than everyone else's. Here's the video take it as you wish, I'm not sure if it's enough to determine numbers since it is online play. Maybe there's something else I could've done. Zatanna matches start at 24:50.

Ok, so I watched most of the fights and I don't think I agree with 7-3.

From what I'm seeing the hardest thing that GL has to contend with is her mobility (which is a legitimate problem) NOT her zoning like I was thinking.

From GL's perspective her zoning appears to be a mix of MMH and Sinestro, where you have options to threaten back (bait/read upward ring and hit her with standing rocket from full screen) but also want to be advancing forward like on sinestro if she's not throwing up rings. All the while you have to be aware she can EX teleport to catch you doing shit if you get sloppy. Thank fuck her ground spark trance thing doesn't do anything on trade, that helps amplify the danger of standing rocket.

Trait is mad gimmicky and not really dangerous at all.
Jump forward > air rocket > she reflects > empty jump forward > she reflects > lift > get bodied
She has much better ways to threaten you.

Going back to the match videos themselves, I would say a good 75% of the total damage you were getting was from rushdown/mix ups/shenanigans.

d1 > EX lightning legs
teleport > meaty cross up f3
Levitate cancel wackiness in the corner
d1 > tiger knee EX dive kick (fuck you Cammy)

The fact that she can get away from my favorite vortex set up totally free is discouraging. You have to start committing to reads on teleport away on wake up just to keep up with her.

I didn't see a single yoga catastrophe or card blast so idk how those will come into play.

According to the frame data, she has a 1 frame window to punish raw lift on block with trance. Can anyone confirm? NRS frame data is squishy at best.

tl;dr I think you did well and you guys will be going more even after you become familiar with the match up. The MU isn't 5-5 though, it's definitely 6-4 her favor. Mostly because of mobility options.

 

[Orochi]

Ok, so I watched most of the fights and I don't think I agree with 7-3.

From what I'm seeing the hardest thing that GL has to contend with is her mobility (which is a legitimate problem) NOT her zoning like I was thinking.

From GL's perspective her zoning appears to be a mix of MMH and Sinestro, where you have options to threaten back (bait/read upward ring and hit her with standing rocket from full screen) but also want to be advancing forward like on sinestro if she's not throwing up rings. All the while you have to be aware she can EX teleport to catch you doing shit if you get sloppy. Thank fuck her ground spark trance thing doesn't do anything on trade, that helps amplify the danger of standing rocket.

Trait is mad gimmicky and not really dangerous at all.
Jump forward > air rocket > she reflects > empty jump forward > she reflects > lift > get bodied
She has much better ways to threaten you.

Going back to the match videos themselves, I would say a good 75% of the total damage you were getting was from rushdown/mix ups/shenanigans.

d1 > EX lightning legs
teleport > meaty cross up f3
Levitate cancel wackiness in the corner
d1 > tiger knee EX dive kick (fuck you Cammy)

The fact that she can get away from my favorite vortex set up totally free is discouraging. You have to start committing to reads on teleport away on wake up just to keep up with her.

I didn't see a single yoga catastrophe or card blast so idk how those will come into play.

According to the frame data, she has a 1 frame window to punish raw lift on block with trance. Can anyone confirm? NRS frame data is squishy at best.

tl;dr I think you did well and you guys will be going more even after you become familiar with the match up. The MU isn't 5-5 though, it's definitely 6-4 her favor. Mostly because of mobility options.

Yea I have to play him more now that I know what to look for the cross up which was getting me every time. The problem with her zoning are not the rings really (which you don't want to jump at all) but her trance. Many times I tried to do a standing rocket to counter her zoning just to get blown up by a trance or a MB trance for a combo punish, and the non mb reverses your inputs so you have to get used to blocking in reverse lol she's so annoying. She also builds meter so fast she almost always has meter to mb Puppet Master. It's more like Raven IMO but feels worse since you can AT LEAST jump Air rocket on raven and her grab doesn't lead to full combo punish from full screen unless it's demon stance.

She also gets to teleport away whenever she wants, two teleports and shes full screen lol so you have to pray your lift catches her or try to turbine.

 

[G4S KT]

Yea I have to play him more now that I know what to look for the cross up which was getting me every time. The problem with her zoning are not the rings really (which you don't want to jump at all) but her trance. Many times I tried to do a standing rocket to counter her zoning just to get blown up by a trance or a MB trance for a combo punish, and the non mb reverses your inputs so you have to get used to blocking in reverse lol she's so annoying. She also builds meter so fast she almost always has meter to mb Puppet Master. It's more like Raven IMO but feels worse since you can jump Air rocket on raven at least and her grab doesn't lead to full combo punish unless it's demon stance.

well if you block or crouch a ring, the trance is definitely a frame trap so you gotta respect it there.

even on regular trance trade inputs get flipped?

 

[Orochi]

well if you block or crouch a ring, the trance is definitely a frame trap so you gotta respect it there.

even on regular trance trade inputs get flipped?

Regular trance flips your inputs and MB you are free to punish for like 3 seconds.

 

[G4S KT]

Regular trance flips your inputs and MB you are free to punish for like 3 seconds.

I mean on a trade

 

[Orochi]

I mean on a trade

On a trade no and she can't mb on a trade either so she has to beat the rocket startup

 

[deg222]

Trait is mad gimmicky and not really dangerous at all.
Jump forward > air rocket > she reflects > empty jump forward > she reflects > lift > get bodied
She has much better ways to threaten you.

I was actually letting him shoot rockets at me when I'm traited. I get 1/3 of a bar everytime I absorb something which is more meter for me to go back use mb rings/mb puppet master. So yeah, the trait has some uses for it.

 

[Crimson Panther]

No. I'm saying it's not as horrendous as Denzell claimed it was. GL still wins the matchup.

Care to explain any?

 

[Jdizzle31]

He's a cool guy and his Zatanna is def on another level than everyone else's. Here's the video take it as you wish, I'm not sure if it's enough to determine numbers since it is online play. Maybe there's something else I could've done. Zatanna matches start at 24:50.

Oh I def agree, specially with the teleport buffs GL can't just do b13 against Ares every knockdown. Ares is not as hopeless as he once was.

thanks for upping this vid man! I main both characters an learnt allot.

 

[Orochi]

I don't agree with some matchups but maybe it's just me.

For example Ares and Grundy I don't feel are that free, Ares not anymore since he can wake up away now so you can't exploit b13 on wake up and his zoning is better than GL's and can punish air and grounded rockets. Grundy can activate that chain and take no chip damage if he gets the lead, his armored moves can also cause trouble on wake up and his dash is pretty fast on a good read he can D2 your air rocket. However I do feel he still has a slight advantage on both.

Aquaman, Flash and Black adam I feel are more even rather than Slight advantage. Aquaman seems to have slightly better footsies than GL and a faster reaching poke helps him a lot. He can also turtle from full screen and bait air rockets to double dash and punish so you can't do them all day, I've played about 10 offline games so far with Tom Brady and it feels pretty even IMO, GL really shines against him because he can punish with lift and get him off the ground and when he puts him in the corner he can air rocket all day specially with trait on.

Flash Def wins the game upclose and has sick frame traps. GL backdash is so slow he can get caught by another string so he has to make good reads on his overhead string and try to zone him but it's hard to zone the flash he's just too fast and can get in with that move if he reads a back jump or back air rocket he can MB it and combo you, I've played this MU with SidTheHaze about 50 games so far and it's pretty even, we had a small tourney here and he beat both Blackula and Myself along with Tom Brady in finals.

Blackadam I'm not sure why there would be an advantage he can punish air rockets with divekick, blocked air turbine with d2 and has a great backdash so he can be full screen where hes safer from rockets, he also has amazing pressure, GL can def give him trouble but even IMO though I haven't played any high level adam players, mainly because they all gave him up except Rico.

All the relatively even match ups I agree with and the slight disadvantage.

I'd put cyborg on slight disadvantage, along with zatanna. Martian not sure yet and I feel lobo is pretty even, with his buffs he sort of feels like doomsday's pressure with slower strings and he isn't too free to zoning thx to his increased range on that shotgun, he also has an amazing wake up.

Just my feelings towards these.

 

[Crimson Panther]

I don't agree with some matchups but maybe it's just me.

For example Ares and Grundy I don't feel are that free, Ares not anymore since he can wake up away now so you can't exploit b13 on wake up and his zoning is better than GL's and can punish air and grounded rockets. Grundy can activate that chain and take no chip damage if he gets the lead, his armored moves can also cause trouble on wake up and his dash is pretty fast on a good read he can D2 your air rocket. However I do feel he still has a slight advantage on both.

Ares I can see. He probably will go down to slight advantage. But Grundy I firmly believe GL can stay away from him well enough with proper zoning that Grundy just gets raped by him. His D2 is really good, which is why you would never do AOR near him or ATS at all unless it's to get you out of the corner.

 

[Orochi]

Ares I can see. He probably will go down to slight advantage. But Grundy I firmly believe GL can stay away from him well enough with proper zoning that Grundy just gets raped by him. His D2 is really good, which is why you would never do AOR near him or ATS at all unless it's to get you out of the corner.

I don't know I havent played a good grundy in a while last one i played was hornysmurf, a lot of grundy players are too impatient so I see where you're coming from, we can leave it like that until proved otherwise high level.

 

[Crimson Panther]

As far as Aquaman it's probably really close and can be debated on even or advantage for GL depending on different circumstances.

Flash can be zoned forcing him to come in. It may be even since Flash has an easier time getting in and once he's in GL has to be really careful and get him full screen again.

Black Adam, again, is a zoning game for GL. Using AORs to ignore BAs zoning. Can't go AOR happy because he can simply walk back out of the AOR range and punish with Black Magic. GL's set-ups don't work against him because of his wake up. This may end up being even, but with BA's nerfs it feels like GL has an edge over him.

 

[Crimson Panther]

I don't know I havent played a good grundy in a while last one i played was hornysmurf, a lot of grundy players are too impatient so I see where you're coming from, we can leave it like that until proved otherwise high level.

Grundys that use Walking Corpse cancels are harder and could put it in slight disadvantage, but even players that I've personally played that used it still wasn't enough to make me sweat.

 

[Orochi]

As far as Aquaman it's probably really close and can be debated on even or advantage for GL depending on different circumstances.

Flash can be zoned forcing him to come in. It may be even since Flash has an easier time getting in and once he's in GL has to be really careful and get him full screen again.

Black Adam, again, is a zoning game for GL. Using AORs to ignore BAs zoning. Can't go AOR happy because he can simply walk back out of the AOR range and punish with Black Magic. GL's set-ups don't work against him because of his wake up. This may end up being even, but with BA's nerfs it feels like GL has an edge over him.

Good points but I still disagree with the advantage on these feel even IMO from the points I adressed on the other post. I respect you and denzell's numbers though since you are both better players just stating my feelings specially for those 3, I only feel the advantage when I got the life lead and even then they have great comeback potential.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

so what do you guys think is the GL-Grundy match up ?

 

[Crimson Panther]

so what do you guys think is the GL-Grundy match up ?

GL beats him.