Opinion on the what the current tiers look like

[juicepouch]

Also dizzy and ppj weren't there!

I was there though so rest assured, the comp was fierce

 

[M2Dave]

Jacqui is too high... like way too high. I'll wait for PPJ's breakdown for her coz I'm not buying that placement.

In my opinion, Full Auto Jacqui is high mid tier, which is more or less what PPJ's tier list suggests. She has solid mix ups, very good damage,
above average zoning and anti-zoning, good punishment and whiff punishment, and amazing movement.

She is not S tier because she lacks an unstoppable vortex, block infinite combos, and absurd pressure. If you made machine gun safer by four or five frames, which will of course never happen, she could be S tier.

 

[LEGEND]

Weaknesses:

1. He has a number of strings with gabs in them.
2. Both of his overhead combo starters can be full combo punished on block.
3. Characters with armor reversals that lead to high damage are probably his biggest weakness.
4. Can have a hard time getting in on certain zoning MU's.
5. If you back dash at opportune times, you escape his pressure and can counter attack.
6. I play Heavy Weapons and the cancel is -6 on block - a lot of people don't know this and let me get in free pressure afterwards.
7. You can full combo punish his d12.
8. His F2 has a really iffy hitbox and a lot of characters can neutral duck it.
9. Hard to hit his midscreen combos because of similar reasons.
10. No Vortex (Pumped Up may have a pseudo vortex, not sure - I think it's his worst variation either way).
11. Seems like his air to airs are pretty bad, but probably that's because every online player and their mom pick scorpion.


MU's: Tempest Lao seems bad. I also struggle with Koto War God. Grandmaster is no walk in the park since you can't really keep pressure up. Ermac also seems challenging for me. Rainden is tough. I'm sure there are others, those are just the few that come to mind.

I don't think he's top 5. I actually think he's exactly where he should be at the #9 spot.

Appreciate the response

A lot of what you listed is Mu specific or things that Jax can either turn into an advantage or avoid using entirely.

Like I don't think F2s hitbox is important at all. I'd argue he doesn't even need to use that string in footsies. But the fact that it works most of the time vs most characters is just a bonus

B2 being punishable is Not the case vs most of the cast.
Don't think he has a hard time vs zoning at all when you can reaction armor most things if you feel like it, and not like zoning is particularly strong in this game.
having bad A-A is whatever. He doesn't need to go to the air at all

The difficult midscreen combos are legit why I don't play him seriously lol

I'm not saying he's unbeatable and there are no options to defend against him. I just really think he has every tool you need to be a top top tier character, and no real glaring weakness that makes a given Mu truly bad

 

[LEGEND]

In my opinion, Full Auto Jacqui is high mid tier, which is more or less what PPJ's tier list suggests. She has solid mix ups, very good damage,
above average zoning and anti-zoning, good punishment and whiff punishment, and amazing movement.

She is not S tier because she lacks block an unstoppable vortex, block infinite combos, and absurd pressure. If you made machine gun safer by four or five frames, which will of course never happen, she could be S tier.

Wut, I'm agreeing with m2Dave

Damn

 

[errormacro7]

I have two questions..

What do the S and S+ tiers mean? Why is S chosen to be higher than A?

Also, does top tier characters refer to characters that have a good chance against every other player? If not, what does it mean?

S/S+ stands for Super/Super+. That's the asian ranking system.

Because S means Super and A means Average, I believe.

Yes. As another guy mentioned before, a tier list is defined primarily by matchup, not so much by the tools the characters have. If a character is very good, but has many losing matchups, it doesn't matter how powerful they are, they're not top tier.

 

[BloodyNights]

I have two questions..

What do the S and S+ tiers mean? Why is S chosen to be higher than A?

Also, does top tier characters refer to characters that have a good chance against every other player? If not, what does it mean?

ABC etc are standard grades, however in Japan they thought the standard A was boring as you'd receive it for completing an assignment at a score around 90%, so S rank was created to showcase perfection. Anything below C is considered a failure.

What S used to mean in fighting games was a character that was in it's own class who pretty much curb stomped the rest of the cast of characters, and was essentially flawless. S+ has no place in any tier list, it's just something to make it seem more awesome then it actually is. Or you could argue by having a S+ placement that characters within it are boarder line broken or are broken, and should be fixed because they break the games balance. But I doubt that is how the tier list is being made out to be, because no one in this game is that strong. So S+ is just trying to sound cool lol

 

[errormacro7]

ABC etc are standard grades, however in Japan they thought the standard A was boring as you'd receive it for completing an assignment at a score around 90%, so S rank was created to showcase perfection. Anything below C is considered a failure.

What S used to mean in fighting games was a character that was in it's own class who pretty much curb stomped the rest of the cast of characters, and was essentially flawless. S+ has no place in any tier list, it's just something to make it seem more awesome then it actually is. Or you could argue by having a S+ placement that characters within it are boarder line broken or are broken, and should be fixed because they break the games balance. But I doubt that is how the tier list is being made out to be, because no one in this game is that strong. So S+ is just trying to sound cool lol

When I see a tier list with S+, I see it like this:

S+ = top
S = high
A = high mid
B = mid
C = shit/low

 

[BloodyNights]

When I see a tier list with S+, I see it like this:

S+ = top
S = high
A = high mid
B = mid tier
C = shit/low tier

Yeah, it is what this list equates too, but like I said S+ used to be reserved for Broken characters while S tier would be top tier. As S means perfect if you add a + to perfect something ain't right yo! lol

In reality it should be
S+ = Broken/Overpowered
S = Top
A = High
B = Mid
C = Low Tier
anything lower might as well just say F tier lol

 

[Big Pampering]

Nowadays if your only option is to poke out of a blockstring or do a risky armor move it is called a block infinite.

 

[errormacro7]

Yeah, it is what this list equates too, but like I said S+ used to be reserved for Broken characters while S tier would be top tier. As S means perfect if you add a + to perfect something ain't right yo! lol

In reality it should be
S+ = Broken/Overpowered
S = Top
A = High
B = Mid
C = Low Tier
anything lower might as well just say F tier lol

I remember when Jax was considered S+ by Tom Brady in MK9.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Can someone tell me what Tom Brady did to get so much hate and at what point it started occurring? He seems like an all around decent dude for the most part

 

[coolwhip]

Good thread @GGA pimpimjim Can you update the OP with your write ups and then finish every character? If you have time of course =)


It looks like Kitana needs to pull a Stella and get her groove back.

They gave Kitana a Jade variation. That immediately sealed her fate as a bottom tier character. Poor princess. Much like her best friend, she was never allowed to live.

 

[coolwhip]

In my opinion, Full Auto Jacqui is high mid tier, which is more or less what PPJ's tier list suggests. She has solid mix ups, very good damage,
above average zoning and anti-zoning, good punishment and whiff punishment, and amazing movement.

She is not S tier because she lacks an unstoppable vortex, block infinite combos, and absurd pressure. If you made machine gun safer by four or five frames, which will of course never happen, she could be S tier.

Serious question, what is this block infinite nonsense? I know you're exaggerating on purpose, but be careful, people latch on to it quickly.

I've heard a commentator call Kung Lao's 112124~ex hat spin a block infinite and I know he was exaggerating, but this sort of thing makes the game look bad as some people don't know any better. Scorpion's 214 fbc is not a block infinite by very definition, since your stamina meter is finite.

 

[Phosferrax]

Great anti-air in a game where noone is going to jump because they're mostly floaty jumps.
.

What game have you been playing? It definitely isn't MKX.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

In my opinion, Full Auto Jacqui is high mid tier, which is more or less what PPJ's tier list suggests. She has solid mix ups, very good damage,
above average zoning and anti-zoning, good punishment and whiff punishment, and amazing movement.

She is not S tier because she lacks an unstoppable vortex, block infinite combos, and absurd pressure. If you made machine gun safer by four or five frames, which will of course never happen, she could be S tier.

Solid Mixup (not plural) coz it's just b2/b33 on the initial hit and she has no mixup in any of her strings really, well she does but they're very linear mixups and too risky in a game plagued with horseshit armored launchers that go into 35% damage.
They're also both not-cancellable on block (which is a good thing coz almost everything she has is crazy unsafe) but it leaves no potential of extended mix-up/pressure. If they block either option your turn ends right there.

At the end of it I agree with most of what you said except punishment, she can't punish like what almost everyone can do on unsafe moves with normals as they have no range and/or too slow to actually punish. There's a fair amount of moves that pretty much everyone can get a standing 1 into a full combo punish but Jacqui can't coz her normals go fuckin nowhere.

bf1 punishes some stuff but only if the move leaves them standing, if their animation is slightly bent it goes over their head and you're open for a full combo punish.

She also has some of the worst jumping normals in the game imo, they're so bad that while you play her you'd legit think anti-airs work in this game.

Not to mention all her EXs outside of the Full-Auto only moves are absolute trash.


She's not low tier by any means and very viable especially in Full-Auto, I just don't think she's on the same level as the other characters in her current A tier placement.
In a proper tier list based on match-up numbers she will be placing much lower.

 

[JTB123]

Solid Mixup (not plural) coz it's just b2/b33 on the initial hit and she has no mixup in any of her strings really, well she does but they're very linear mixups and too risky in a game plagued with horseshit armored launchers that go into 35% damage.
They're also both not-cancellable on block (which is a good thing coz almost everything she has is crazy unsafe) but it leaves no potential of extended mix-up/pressure. If they block either option your turn ends right there.

At the end of it I agree with most of what you said except punishment, she can't punish like what almost everyone can do on unsafe moves with normals as they have no range and/or too slow to actually punish. There's a fair amount of moves that pretty much everyone can get a standing 1 into a full combo punish but Jacqui can't coz her normals go fuckin nowhere.

bf1 punishes some stuff but only if the move leaves them standing, if their animation is slightly bent it goes over their head and you're open for a full combo punish.

She also has some of the worst jumping normals in the game imo, they're so bad that while you play her you'd legit think anti-airs work in this game.

Not to mention all her EXs outside of the Full-Auto only moves are absolute trash.


She's not low tier by any means and very viable especially in Full-Auto, I just don't think she's on the same level as the other characters in her current A tier placement.
In a proper tier list based on match-up numbers she will be placing much lower.

I've had Jacqui as my secondary for a bit now and agree with what you said but I think she needs to be that way. Her weaknesses are what stop her from being absolutely insane. Like other characters I feel she is a different animal when cornering your opponent (full auto) her damage potential is insane from her safe launching 50/50's.

T-Rex arms, mediocre pokes and bad jump ins (fake out is useful though) are a small price to pay for what she has imo. She won't carry you, but if you treat Miss. Briggs right, she'll treat you right back.

The Sektor S1 syndrome is killer though lol

 

[Devin Thorn]

Who do you guys think is the most honest character in the game?

 

[M2Dave]

Serious question, what is this block infinite nonsense? I know you're exaggerating on purpose, but be careful, people latch on to it quickly.

I've heard a commentator call Kung Lao's 112124~ex hat spin a block infinite and I know he was exaggerating, but this sort of thing makes the game look bad as some people don't know any better. Scorpion's 214 fbc is not a block infinite by very definition, since your stamina meter is finite.

The fireball cancel is a pseudo block infinite combo for three repetitions that results in 8.25% (probably 10% with flame aura) of guaranteed chip damage. The fact that you cannot interrupt the fireball cancels is what makes Hellfire Scorpion's best variation.

But have no worries. The game does not look bad. The casual viewers do not care. They only care if zoning and fireballs are involved.

Solid Mixup (not plural) coz it's just b2/b33 on the initial hit and she has no mixup in any of her strings really, well she does but they're very linear mixups and too risky in a game plagued with horseshit armored launchers that go into 35% damage.
They're also both not-cancellable on block (which is a good thing coz almost everything she has is crazy unsafe) but it leaves no potential of extended mix-up/pressure. If they block either option your turn ends right there.

Your turn is supposed to end on block because you have just attempted a safe (but unsafe versus Cassie and Tempest Kung Lao for the low option) 50/50 mix up that leads to 40% of damage with one bar. Moreover, you are proving my point about the S tier characters in this game. On block, your 50/50 mix up is not supposed to lead to more 50/50 mix ups or unblockable tick throws. Such strategy is poor gameplay design that some fan boys in this community apparently mistake as footsies, so these fools create threads praising certain players for abilities they do not possess. The reality is that the S tier characters have set an absurd standard for offense that anything sort of borderline broken is presently regarded as insufficient.

b,f+1 reverses sides and punishes moves like Erron Black's f+1,3,2 and Kenshi's EX rising karma. 1 has short range but leads to 40% with one bar. Machine gun punishes lots of zoning tools full screen away, including all of Kenshi's teleflurries and Jacqui's own machine gun.

b,f+4 leads to some okizeme set ups after combos. Again, nothing too ludicrous, but nothing too bad either. From my testing, b+2 will catch jumping opponents and all but the fastest reversal attacks.

I agree with your other points.

 

[Big Pampering]

A 10% blockstring is an infinite now

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Your turn is supposed to end on block because you have just attempted a safe (but unsafe versus Cassie and Tempest Kung Lao for the low option) 50/50 mix up that leads to 40% of damage with one bar. Moreover, you are proving my point about the S tier characters in this game. On block, your 50/50 mix up is not supposed to lead to more 50/50 mix ups or unblockable tick throws. Such strategy is poor gameplay design that some fan boys in this community apparently mistake as footsies, so these fools create threads praising certain players for abilities they do not possess. The reality is that the S tier characters have set an absurd standard for offense that anything sort of borderline broken is presently regarded as insufficient.

That was my point tho, a fair amount of the top characters can attempt a mix-up and keep pressure going or go for another mix-up if you blocked the first one. Jacqui doesn't have anything like that which is why I say her mix-up game isn't that big of a deal. She has a 50/50 tho and some +2 strings.
Also Jacqui can get 40%+ meterless in the corner doesn't need the bar.

b,f+1 reverses sides and punishes moves like Erron Black's f+1,3,2 and Kenshi's EX rising karma. 1 has short range but leads to 40% with one bar. Machine gun punishes lots of zoning tools full screen away, including all of Kenshi's teleflurries and Jacqui's own machine gun.

Yes amazing! Kenshi gets 30% and fullscreen knockback if he hits the EX RK and my punish is 9%.. other characters get a proper 30%+ punish which my whole point, she can punish but it's very low damage and the risk/reward gets skewed toward the character doing the unsafe move.. like why would he not try to EX everytime where he can get 3 times I damage I'd do if I block and punish..

 

[Swindle]

Can someone tell me what Tom Brady did to get so much hate and at what point it started occurring? He seems like an all around decent dude for the most part

He is a cool guy, actually. That said, when he gets all Morrissey about Sub-Zero, he tends to say and do a lot of questionable shit.
Some fuss-trating, questionable shit.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

Looks accurate to me...Vowed to never main a bottom three character again after Baraka in MK9 and here I am again.

I have an underdog complex. It's the cross I bear...

 

[The ice hammer]

Who do you guys think is the most honest character in the game?

Cryomancer subzero. No ice clone or shield. Just straight up in your face character.

 

[BloodyNights]

Cryomancer subzero. No ice clone or shield. Just straight up in your face character.

To me an honest character isn't allowed to have a 50/50 lol So probably Kitana and Liu Kang (I know Liu has a bad overhead that is 50/50 worthy). They so honest that they be shipping together in the story.

 

[Tom Brady]

He is a cool guy, actually. That said, when he gets all Morrissey about Sub-Zero, he tends to say and do a lot of questionable shit.
Some fuss-trating, questionable shit.

that was 4 years ago and you guys bring it like it happened yesterday.

and nothing was questionable about being frustrated when SZ in MK9 was wrongfully nerfed several times (which literally 100% of the community agreed upon) while characters doing one touch kills stay in the game.

It was supposed to be all in good fun.