Online play is useful to an extent

[9.95]

Online for fighting games may not be useless as you can get a certain level of practice, but that's about it. I can't really say more than what Shock has already said, but 2 years ago I was an online only player until I started with tournaments at Castle Golf and then eventually ECT, NEC, and so on and so forth. Now I can't stand to play online. The few times I have played online for the purpose of warming up I have been so disgusted by it... and I showed Rob what it was like and he was like, "Bro, you didn't even show 1/8th of how good you are against that scrub...."

My point of view is this... when you play primarilly online, you learn the game a different way. You train yourself to not react to opportunities that exist in the game. These opportunities exist both online and offline, however in an online scenario, they are far, FAR less safe(sometimes not even safe at all, even in the best of connections), and therefore, the player chooses to completely ignore the opportunity...even in an offline game. Ignoring that will cost you in an offline tournament. There is the point... the offline player sees these opportunities, and offline can respond to them properly, punish mistakes properly and doesn't have to adjust on the fly to different timing between different opponents with different connections. There's simply no continuity online. While playing online, an offline player sees these opportunities, just like he does when playing offline...but when he tries to react, gets punished by the online player who, in many cases, doesn't even realize that the offline player even had an opportunity because online, it's nearly impossible to react to...so the online player thinks he can do things that are safe, when in reality, not only are they not safe, but that opportunity(for the online player) shouldn't exist because the offline player(in an offline setting) would have capitalized on the initial opportunity. I know it's confusing to read at first...but it makes sense. Simply put, the online player handicaps himself by not realizing the game's full potential, his own full potential, and willingly abandons many tactics, techniques and opportunities, in many cases, simply because he doesn't even realize that they exist!

 

[Dark_Rob]

SF4 definately has its share of online nonsense. Just ask Bone how many block strings ive SRK'd him out of that Im sure offline he can hit clean everytime. I could never get away with that crap if I played him offline.

 

[RoGE]

SF4 definately has its share of online nonsense. Just ask Bone how many block strings ive SRK'd him out of that Im sure offline he can hit clean everytime. I could never get away with that crap if I played him offline.

You can mash out DPs online and offline SF4 they made all the reversals so noob friendly lol. Even in tournaments you see people SRK blockstrings because of the retarded priority SRKs have in that game.

In Casual fights, Online play in fighting games is not exactly useless but when it comes to serious play, it is kinda useless.

 

[Juggs]

No, I realize you guys have played online and I know some of you have played online longer than I have. As far as being a viable source of competition, that's relative I suppose.

I mentioned Phlush because he's an online player, who practiced through online play. Him winning and beating Alex Valle was a plus. You can call him an offline player NOW, but before he won the tournament, he wasn't. What about players that used to play UMK3 only online, like DC HUSTLE and Shaney? They had very close matches with Crazy Dominican. A player who went to an offline event and won 1st place. Or what about Niggy, he had never played UMK3 before on XBLA, he went to the tournament and placed 2nd. These players acquired their experience through online play.

I for one am not saying online is as good as offline. HDR and SSF4 do have good netcode, UMK3's is not as good. Plush will get better because he's playing in offline tournaments against the absolute best players. But he wouldn't be where he is today without the aid of online play. Again, no one is saying online is as good as offline, even in the best conditions.

The only thing I am advocating is that online play is good for practice. To say it's not, or to even go further and say online play is "useless", is dishonesty.

 

[Tim Static]

Your only defending this because you are an online player. If you werent, you wouldnt be arguing this and be looking at the person who is and would be facepalming at their posts. its only good for keeping fresh. thats it. not a inch more than that. Any game you play online isnt the same game offline. So using online to prepare for offline is retarded.

 

[Krayzie]

Online-Gaming and Competitive-Gaming is in its own context only relevant if you already know how to play the forementioned game at the highest level, offline.

When it comes to learning a game at the highest level, many objectives come to mind. Primarily playing a game online, and only online hinders your ability to adapt, execute correct moves, and can go as far as changing how the matchup plays out, depending on the netcode of the game. Online you can only get a general idea of what the matchup is like, albiet you get a reasonable view of the match, you completely miss important execution, and in return get a false view, or half view of what you should be doing, or could do.

Online is useless if you dont already have a great amount of time invested in playing offline competition.

Get real, Juggs. You are confusing the kids into thinking online is cool.

 

[9.95]

I wouldn't even say online is good for practice... it's more like its good for some extremely casual matches between people who have decent connections for the purpose of warming up and doing something other than sitting around doing nothing else.

Remember, what you do in practice is what you do in game... this rings true not only for sports, but for videogames as well...

 

[THTB]

retarded priority SRKs have in that game.

Not related to online, but SRKs in SFIV have HORRIBLE priority compared to other SF games. No lie, SRKs trade more often in SFIV than in any other SF game ever.

 

[mhtdtr]

i think online play is a great tool. obviously like many of you said before you can judge anybody for online play but tell me: im from spain and righ here there is no scene of mortal kombat, im the best player here and i am not very good. if online does not exit i never learn nothing from people who can play a lot better than me, even if the timing is not perfect and my level of playing will be forever low cause i not play with anyone with skills.

 

[9.95]

i think online play is a great tool. obviously like many of you said before you can judge anybody for online play but tell me: im from spain and righ here there is no scene of mortal kombat, im the best player here and i am not very good. if online does not exit i never learn nothing from people who can play a lot better than me, even if the timing is not perfect and my level of playing will be forever low cause i not play with anyone with skills.

That's exactly what we've been saying... online will get you only to a certain point... and then you flatline because there are things that you must, due to lag, delay and frame drop, remove from your skill set, or never learn altogether because you don't even know it exists. Don't get me wrong, we're glad to see people playing UMK3 in just about any capacity, but we want to get the online players involved offline in any way possible.

 

[Juggs]

Your only defending this because you are an online player. If you werent, you wouldnt be arguing this and be looking at the person who is and would be facepalming at their posts. its only good for keeping fresh. thats it. not a inch more than that. Any game you play online isnt the same game offline. So using online to prepare for offline is retarded.

I'm not defending anything. I'm making valid points, like my last post, and yet they are getting completely dismissed. I missed the part where I said playing online to prepare for offline was a good idea.

Online-Gaming and Competitive-Gaming is in its own context only relevant if you already know how to play the forementioned game at the highest level, offline.

When it comes to learning a game at the highest level, many objectives come to mind. Primarily playing a game online, and only online hinders your ability to adapt, execute correct moves, and can go as far as changing how the matchup plays out, depending on the netcode of the game. Online you can only get a general idea of what the matchup is like, albiet you get a reasonable view of the match, you completely miss important execution, and in return get a false view, or half view of what you should be doing, or could do.

Online is useless if you dont already have a great amount of time invested in playing offline competition.

Get real, Juggs. You are confusing the kids into thinking online is cool.

What you guys are saying and have been saying is that online play is unreliable due to lag and delay. Have I not also stated this? Again, how is it useless when these online only players are going to tournaments and winning? Saying it's useless just because it is is NOT an argument. And no, I'm not. I'm saying online isn't useless and NO ONE has made a counter argument on why that is.

I wouldn't even say online is good for practice... it's more like its good for some extremely casual matches between people who have decent connections for the purpose of warming up and doing something other than sitting around doing nothing else.

Remember, what you do in practice is what you do in game... this rings true not only for sports, but for videogames as well...

I have also stated that online play are strictly casuals. For the purpose of warming up, I guess that's one way online ISN'T useless.

What about REO guys? An online player who I trained soley online. His only experience before he played you guys was ONLINE. I heard Shock even gave him props. Someone address why these players know what they're doing, when they only have online experience. Since you neglected to do so based on my previous post.

 

[9.95]

Juggs, some players are just naturally better than others, regardless of online or offline. Nobody here is saying that online players don't posess the ability to adjust to delay from player to player(and sometimes move to move)... that is fully acknowledged. REO is simply a better player than alot of people, regardless of online or offline... the kid has natural ability that surpasses some player's maxed out offline ability.

 

[RoGE]

Again, I agree Juggs, Online play is NOT useless, nothing is really completely useless that's a fact and at the same time you can't take it seriously like offline, so I agree with pretty much most of the things stated this thread. Not much else to add to the thread

Not related to online, but SRKs in SFIV have HORRIBLE priority compared to other SF games. No lie, SRKs trade more often in SFIV than in any other SF game ever.

Only Ryu's, Dan even has a better DP then him now lol

 

[THTB]

REO is a naturally good player overall.

 

[Juggs]

REO is a naturally good player overall.

And he got his experience through online play. When he first started, it didn't matter how naturally good he was, he sucked. After months of training ONLINE, he became a good player.

Thread is done.

 

[9.95]

And he got his experience through online play. When he first started, it didn't matter how naturally good he was, he sucked. After months of training ONLINE, he became a good player.

Thread is done.

Don't just take your ball and go home because not everyone agrees with you.

You and REO are 2 examples of players who got good only through online play. DC Hustle is prob. another... but I can name a laundry list of players who play offline who simply can't play online with any relative measure of skill.

The door swings both ways. You recognize the importance of offline matches, and we've recognized that online is not useless but you need to stop preaching to people that they will reach the peak of their skills by playing online alone. REO played offline at a casual set one time with us and then disappeared into obscurity... I wish he had stayed with us because he'd be far better now because of constant offline play that would have allowed him to maximize his potential.

 

[Juggs]

Don't just take your ball and go home because not everyone agrees with you.

When I lay out points that are completely dismissed the thread is pretty pointless. Especially when everyone keeps repeating what they've already said, including myself.

You and REO are 2 examples of players who got good only through online play. DC Hustle is prob. another... but I can name a laundry list of players who play offline who simply can't play online with any relative measure of skill.

As I can name a laundry list of players who got their only experience from online play and are quite good. Sure they could improve their game if they played offline WITH players who were equally as good or better.

The door swings both ways. You recognize the importance of offline matches, and we've recognized that online is not useless but you need to stop preaching to people that they will reach the peak of their skills by playing online alone. REO played offline at a casual set one time with us and then disappeared into obscurity... I wish he had stayed with us because he'd be far better now because of constant offline play that would have allowed him to maximize his potential.

No, not everyone in this thread has recognized online isn't useless. And I certainly am not preaching, let alone that a player will reach the peack of their skills playing online only. You're reading what you want to read if that's what you think. I never said someone could become the best they could be through online play, that's ridiculous. I've said HUNDREDS of times that playing in tournaments is the best way to increase your skill level. My whole point has been that online has it's uses and gaining experience and practice are some of it's uses.

 

[Krayzie]

No, not everyone in this thread has recognized online isn't useless. And I certainly am not preaching, let alone that a player will reach the peack of their skills playing online only. You're reading what you want to read if that's what you think. I never said someone could become the best they could be through online play, that's ridiculous. I've said HUNDREDS of times that playing in tournaments is the best way to increase your skill level. My whole point has been that online has it's uses and gaining experience and practice are some of it's uses.

Considering that the player who is online has experience in offline play, or at least understands the basic features of how the forementioned game works offline. A player who is obviously above average when it comes to learning will understand this, and that is exactly where REO comes in. I have heard him talk about how shitty UMK3 is online, and I am pretty certain he practiced offline, or at least asked questions to understand proper game properties.

The game is only useless to online-only players who refuse to play or acknowledge "OFFLINE." And if you do happen to play offline, chances are you probably wont be on the online train much longer. Online practice is not the cream of the crop, its not reliable, and will not help a random player practice on his own without help from another source. Your source was Shaney, his source was CD. Do the math.

 

[STORMS]

I'm not sure why this thread was closed and moved to the Netherrealm to begin with, but from now on please state clearly at the bottom of your post "Thread Closed". That way either member and in this case, staff know that it's a closed thread and NOT to reply to it.

I have reopened it for the time being.

Thanks.

 

[S-I-C]

What's this online/offline play you's are speaking of?

 

[STORMS]

What's this online/offline play you's are speaking of?

The whole discussion of this thread to determine if online play is truly useless and means nothing or not.

As I have said before...

online = NOT to be taken seriously, but is a GREAT way to meet people. Period.
OFFLINE = for the best and only real way to compete on a true level and is influences "offline matchmaking".

 

[Juggs]

All I asked is why online is useless. I believe it's not useless, for the multiple reasons I stated and the examples I listed. Even if everyone on this site except myself thinks online is somehow useless, it doesn't mean that it's true. But if you can rationally explain to me why you think it's useless, I'm all ears. Even if in your experience you have gained nothing from playing online, it doesn't mean others haven't or can't. I've also stated that in some cases online play can become useless. From unplayable lag and delay, to the characters moves changing properties due soley from it's bad netcode.

HOWEVER, I'm not saying that all online players are good or can learn online. MRIGOTBASS had only played online and he uses online tactics. He went the tournament and placed 5th. He told me that some of the stuff he does online doesn't work offline, which I knew of and told him would happen. He abuses some aspects of online, just so he can squeeze out a win against his opponent. But, he knows things about the game and isn't that bad of a player. His only experience has come through online play. You guys may see this as just another reason why online is "useless", I'm sure. Since he used tactics that worked online but did not offline. What I'm saying is that other than his online tactics that didn't work so well or at all offline, he got his practice and experience from online play. He wouldn't have gotten 5th or done well at all without his experience. He learned that the crap he abuses online, won't work as well offline. Which is why offline is superior and why tournaments are the best way to improve. Even still, from this example, online isn't useless. As far as online only tactics, it is useless when applied to offline.

I'm not standing against offline play. I complain about lag and delay very often in games like UMK3. So I'm very aware of the handicaps that come along with netplay. I've played the game offline and see some differences in the gameplay. But they aren't major differences, unless it's as the example above and it's a tactic that has little use in the offline world. Tactics are just tactics, you can't rely on one tactic to become a good player. You have to adapt accordingly. If I use something online that doesn't work well offline, offline I won't use said tactic. Though if everything else I learned is identical or so closely similar to offline play, you can't deny that all the practice I've had from online play wasn't meaningless or useless.

I have also stated countless number of times that you NEED to go to tournaments. I'm not just saying this because I heard others say it. I've been to tournaments myself. The things that a tournament match can teach you is so much more than what a casual match can teach you. Not to mention the hype that tournaments have and overall atmosphere. The pressure and stress of having something to lose is unmatched in casuals. I have also stated that online play is unreliable when determining who's better than who. That you can only get an idea or gauge a players skill based on online play, which are casuals. In games like UMK3, you can't say that a person you beat online, that you could beat them offline. Delay and lag just plays too much of a factor, also that online play as I've repeated, are casuals.

Ty, I'm not questioning whether its useless or not... I already, as have almost every person who posted in the thread, said that online play has some level of usefulness... but that its minor at best...

If you say that online isn't useless, then that's all I wanted you guys to admit, because it's TRUE. Regardless of HOW useful it is, it IS useful is some aspect or another. Also, I wasn't just speaking of MK online. Since Tay originally brought it up and was speaking of it regarding SSFIV. MK online netcode is far from great, I used my examples from MK players to highlight that even in games where the netcode isn't great, players can still learn a great deal.

 

[Shock]

OK first off, you're the guy who is forcing the argument of "useless" when most of us just say that online play sucks, and it does, and it full does, and there's nothing that's going to change that because it full on and full and true sucks sucks sucks. You want us to admit something there's no reason to admit? We have ALL said what the value of online play is, some people think it has greater value than others, but it does come down to math. You just want to start an argument to win it but are obviously confused. There is a vague consensus that you can practice online to keep up with the game, but that's it. Take your floaties off man.

Online play is a load of nonsense that causes nothing but problems, but you can develop some kind of skill on it. You would obviously be better off playing a game online for a month then not playing it at all because the components are there, just not 100% accurate. Playing online too much will ruin your offline timing, and the offline timing is the important timing. Now here's the problem. Deep down, you probably feel that online timing is just as important because you want online play to be validated. How about all the online players go make their own site, and post only about online competition, and don't bother with the offline players, or seek their approval, because we don't care man. We don't care.

Offline trumps online in every way when it comes to the actual playing of the game, and this statement goes without saying. Even if you say "You can play people long distances away without going anywhere" well that's fine, but you still don't have an accurate representation of the gameplay, so you might as well not play. That's where it becomes useless. It's also useless to determine "who is the better player" in any case which is very much what a lot of online players like to do. The anonymity of online play makes it very easy to trash talk and have beliefs that no one can beat you, and that you've seen it all, there are no surprises. The first time a Robot Smoke's teleport punch is blocked and punished, or a Sub-zero's slide is blocked and punished, or consistent aaRH, run under uppercuts, etc, or their all defense jab spam doesn't work all rain down upon them, they realize they were abusing online tactics and they wake up.

 

[Juggs]

OK first off, you're the guy who is forcing the argument of "useless" when most of us just say that online play sucks, and it does, and it full does, and there's nothing that's going to change that because it full on and full and true sucks sucks sucks. You want us to admit something there's no reason to admit? We have ALL said what the value of online play is, some people think it has greater value than others, but it does come down to math. You just want to start an argument to win it but are obviously confused. There is a vague consensus that you can practice online to keep up with the game, but that's it. Take your floaties off man.

Because that's what the argument was. Whether or not online was "useless". You and others have agreed with me that it's not useless. I wanted you guys to either agree with "online is NOT useless", or conjure up reasons why it IS useless.

Now here's the problem. Deep down, you probably feel that online timing is just as important because you want online play to be validated. .

Validated in what sense? The only validation I want is that online isn't useless. Because to say otherwise is dishonest and false. You assume too much.

How about all the online players go make their own site, and post only about online competition, and don't bother with the offline players, or seek their approval, because we don't care man. We don't care

Agreed. Don't know what this has to do with me or the discussion at hand though.

Online play is a load of nonsense that causes nothing but problems, but you can develop some kind of skill on it. You would obviously be better off playing a game online for a month then not playing it at all because the components are there, just not 100% accurate. Playing online too much will ruin your offline timing, and the offline timing is the important timing.

Offline trumps online in every way when it comes to the actual playing of the game, and this statement goes without saying. Even if you say "You can play people long distances away without going anywhere" well that's fine, but you still don't have an accurate representation of the gameplay, so you might as well not play. That's where it becomes useless. It's also useless to determine "who is the better player" in any case which is very much what a lot of online players like to do. The anonymity of online play makes it very easy to trash talk and have beliefs that no one can beat you, and that you've seen it all, there are no surprises. The first time a Robot Smoke's teleport punch is blocked and punished, or a Sub-zero's slide is blocked and punished, or consistent aaRH, run under uppercuts, etc, or their all defense jab spam doesn't work all rain down upon them, they realize they were abusing online tactics and they wake up.

The rest of your post I've actually said myself. Glad you guys are finally agreeing with me.

 

[9.95]

The rest of your post I've actually said myself. Glad you guys are finally agreeing with me.

It's not finally agreeing with you... the offline players have been in agreement about how the game should be played since it's release in 1995.

I think the reason that this has gone on in this thread this long is because you made such a general, blanket statement about online play that it is going to come across as being as important to newer players who may be willing to play offline, but when reading a thread like this might say, "Well damn, if online is just as useful as offline, why bother to leave my house?" That's why I recommended changing the thread's name to something like "Online MK and the minor purpose it does serve"... at least that lets people see that there are different points of view before they even enter the thread.