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Noob Saibot General Discussion Thread

Dante

Noob
Lows are essentially mids so i dont see a point in changing f4 instead of making b11+3 safer in some way.
This and improving his KBs are honestly all the changes he needs to be a true A tier.
Another cool change would be making either ghostball or low shadow kick (bf3 short range -7 move) a Noob special rather than variation specific so we can actually fit it in the future.

I actually found a cool use for tackle and thats throwing it out at footsies (like backdash into that). Its fast enough and has no hurtbox and isnt easy to jump out from. Safety is rarely an issue. Still not great with current KB condition.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Lows are essentially mids so i dont see a point in changing f4 instead of making b11+3 safer in some way.
This and improving his KBs are honestly all the changes he needs to be a true A tier.
Another cool change would be making either ghostball or low shadow kick (bf3 short range -7 move) a Noob special rather than variation specific so we can actually fit it in the future.

I actually found a cool use for tackle and thats throwing it out at footsies (like backdash into that). Its fast enough and has no hurtbox and isnt easy to jump out from. Safety is rarely an issue. Still not great with current KB condition.
How would he be true A tier if he still will have problems opening people up? His B1,1+3 needs to be safer. That alone being as unsafe as it is gives him problems in the neutral game. Lows aren't essentially mids. They're lows. They have properties that mids don't have.

Do you mean throwing it out within sweep distance?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
How would he be true A tier if he still will have problems opening people up?
He does not need to open people up in my opinion. He is supposed to be a "premier zoning character", according to NRS's own words. He should have better zoning tools, which means a much better tackle and an EX version of spirit ball. I say leave safe 9 frame mid strings and overhead starters for the rush down characters. I am certain that a safe b+1,1+3 and an overhead tackle would cause him to jump in the tier list yet would make him very boring to play in my humble opinion. I like the fact that b+1,1+3 has a risk and that a lot of his moves (i.e., b+2, f+4, throws, etc.) leave the opponent full screen away, which is fitting for a zoning character. With better zoning potential, practical krushing blows, and a couple of hitbox fixes, he would be a lot more fun to play, irrespective of his position on the tier list.
 

Dante

Noob
How would he be true A tier if he still will have problems opening people up? His B1,1+3 needs to be safer. That alone being as unsafe as it is gives him problems in the neutral game. Lows aren't essentially mids. They're lows. They have properties that mids don't have.

Do you mean throwing it out within sweep distance?
Since we don't have overheads I don't see how lows are different than mids. D4 is for all intents and purposes my safe mid button to check ppl.
Opening them up suggest we actually pressure them on block. To me it's not different from how thin ice does it at all with the major exception of their b31 vs our b11+3. I'm a strong believer on the absolute nessecity of such a string to play this game.

Think of tackle as a b3 with less hurtbox. Less rewards for sure but since it has infinite active frames it can collide with other moves/movement that much often. Give it a try if you will
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
He does not need to open people up in my opinion. He is supposed to be a "premier zoning character", according to NRS's own words. He should have better zoning tools, which means a much better tackle and an EX version of spirit ball. I say leave safe 9 frame mid strings and overhead starters for the rush down characters. I am certain that a safe b+1,1+3 and an overhead tackle would cause him to jump in the tier list yet would make him very boring to play in my humble opinion. I like the fact that b+1,1+3 has a risk and that a lot of his moves (i.e., b+2, f+4, throws, etc.) leave the opponent full screen away, which is fitting for a zoning character. With better zoning potential, practical krushing blows, and a couple of hitbox fixes, he would be a lot more fun to play, irrespective of his position on the tier list.
With all due respect, and I do respect your opinion, M2Dave, NRS has made statements regarding how characters are suppose to play in the past, especially with MK11, and they're not what they say they are. It happens. Noob was designed to be a punishment character and that's what he is going to be. He has a zoning variation, but it's trash, so NRS needs to make improvements on Seeing Double if they want that variation to be viable.

Since most of us are playing Dark Sabbath we're playing a more punishment based character and there are things that he needs in order keep up with the meta. These are some suggestions I'd make to his character and not the Dark Sabbath variation, in my opinion:

  • B1, 1+3 to be safer.
- This is one of his main neutral tools, so if this move is unsafe and characters can punish it, then the Noob has an immediate disadvantage in that specific matchup.
  • A faster shadow tackle that can trade.
- This move can only be used in combos at the moment and fails as a zoning tool. It's too slow and can easily be read, and it disappears when Noob is hit.
  • Some sort of way to open the opponent up.
- Noob's game plan is to get the opponent into the corner and bully them until they die while simultaneously punishing the opponent, whether on whiff or block. These punishments carry the opponent into the corner where we are left in the right position to bully them for their milk money. Problem is we can't open them up to land damage and we have to rely on empty jumping, back dash into b1, etc. It's gimmicky. Good players will see this coming and have their defense on point, so at that point we're left to abusing throw after a confirmed poke, or jailing 1,1,3 off of a successful d1.

I'm not sure if giving Noob the ability to open up the opponent with the damage he has would be too broken. That will have to be tested. If it does prove to be too broken, then he can take a damage nerf. I'd be fine with that trade off.
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For Seeing Double, I'd suggest this:

  • Make Ghostball a core move for Noob Saibot and replace it with an amplified Shadow Upknee.
- I'm suggesting this because Seeing Double has no damage, not even in the corner. By adding an amplified upknee that sends the opponent up higher we can extend combos in the corner and land some solid damage, because right now his damage is in the 200's with this variation. Ghostball should just be a core move. It's a waste to have it as a added move. Spirit ball can act as a substitute move for Noob in his Dark Sabbath variation, much like other characters have moves in their variations that replace existing moves in their core moveset.
  • Ghostball needs to be useful.
- The move depletes the opponent of 1 defense and 1 offensive bar; however, is too slow to connect into combos and too slow to use as a setup. It's a useless move that needs fixing. We should be able to combo into it off of b1,1+3. At least an amplified version of it.
  • Shadow Slide should travel full screen. If not, then 3/4 screen.
- This move is utterly useless as a zoning tool. It travels half screen. It is fast, but who cares. You can't zone with it. Zoning midscreen is a dangerous area for zoning characters we have less security around there.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
With all due respect, and I do respect your opinion, M2Dave, NRS has made statements regarding how characters are suppose to play in the past, especially with MK11, and they're not what they say they are. It happens. Noob was designed to be a punishment character and that's what he is going to be. He has a zoning variation, but it's trash, so NRS needs to make improvements on Seeing Double if they want that variation to be viable.

Since most of us are playing Dark Sabbath we're playing a more punishment based character and there are things that he needs in order keep up with the meta. These are some suggestions I'd make to his character and not the Dark Sabbath variation, in my opinion:

  • B1, 1+3 to be safer.
- This is one of his main neutral tools, so if this move is unsafe and characters can punish it, then the Noob has an immediate disadvantage in that specific matchup.
  • A faster shadow tackle that can trade.
- This move can only be used in combos at the moment and fails as a zoning tool. It's too slow and can easily be read, and it disappears when Noob is hit.
  • Some sort of way to open the opponent up.
- Noob's game plan is to get the opponent into the corner and bully them until they die while simultaneously punishing the opponent, whether on whiff or block. These punishments carry the opponent into the corner where we are left in the right position to bully them for their milk money. Problem is we can't open them up to land damage and we have to rely on empty jumping, back dash into b1, etc. It's gimmicky. Good players will see this coming and have their defense on point, so at that point we're left to abusing throw after a confirmed poke, or jailing 1,1,3 off of a successful d1.

I'm not sure if giving Noob the ability to open up the opponent with the damage he has would be too broken. That will have to be tested. If it does prove to be too broken, then he can take a damage nerf. I'd be fine with that trade off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For Seeing Double, I'd suggest this:

  • Make Ghostball a core move for Noob Saibot and replace it with an amplified Shadow Upknee.
- I'm suggesting this because Seeing Double has no damage, not even in the corner. By adding an amplified upknee that sends the opponent up higher we can extend combos in the corner and land some solid damage, because right now his damage is in the 200's with this variation. Ghostball should just be a core move. It's a waste to have it as a added move. Spirit ball can act as a substitute move for Noob in his Dark Sabbath variation, much like other characters have moves in their variations that replace existing moves in their core moveset.
  • Ghostball needs to be useful.
- The move depletes the opponent of 1 defense and 1 offensive bar; however, is too slow to connect into combos and too slow to use as a setup. It's a useless move that needs fixing. We should be able to combo into it off of b1,1+3. At least an amplified version of it.
  • Shadow Slide should travel full screen. If not, then 3/4 screen.
- This move is utterly useless as a zoning tool. It travels half screen. It is fast, but who cares. You can't zone with it. Zoning midscreen is a dangerous area for zoning characters we have less security around there.
The vast majority of characters in this game open opponents up with throws, whether they be regular or command throws. I highly doubt NRS is giving a punishing character, or a zoning character, or however you want to label Noob, 50/50 mix ups or pressure that can be staggered. If Noob's zoning game were "premier", he would not need mix ups because he could chip the opponent full screen away, similar to a character like Cetrion.

In my opinion, speculation about buff serves no purpose as NRS will do what they will do. However, I think the whole Noob community can agree that the character needs hitbox fixes on wake up 3 and tackle, functional krushing blows on b+3,1+3 and tackle, and a couple of improvements on tackle. Everything else is debatable. He may need nothing else if you consider the inevitable nerfs to the top five characters.

Keep in mind that a safer b+1,1+3 will be safer in all variations. I also have no expectations for ghost ball. When has an unblockable move in fighting games not been either worthless or overpowered? The design ought to be discarded and overhauled.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
The vast majority of characters in this game open opponents up with throws, whether they be regular or command throws. I highly doubt NRS is giving a punishing character, or a zoning character, or however you want to label Noob, 50/50 mix ups or pressure that can be staggered. If Noob's zoning game were "premier", he would not need mix ups because he could chip the opponent full screen away, similar to a character like Cetrion.

In my opinion, speculation about buff serves no purpose as NRS will do what they will do. However, I think the whole Noob community can agree that the character needs hitbox fixes on wake up 3 and tackle, functional krushing blows on b+3,1+3 and tackle, and a couple of improvements on tackle. Everything else is debatable. He may need nothing else if you consider the inevitable nerfs to the top five characters.

Keep in mind that a safer b+1,1+3 will be safer in all variations. I also have no expectations for ghost ball. When has an unblockable move in fighting games not been either worthless or overpowered? The design ought to be discarded and overhauled.
A valid point; however, I'd like to clarify that I wasn't insisting, nor suggesting that Noob be given 50/50 mixups. I just wanted f4 to be special cancelable as a way fo have another low move that leads into a combo. I don't want a 50/50 mixup character like Sonya. Although, @M2Dave , throwing isn't a reliable tactic unless you have a way to set up a throw loop, like Kung Lao. The best we have is a down poke into a throw, or down poke into f2/f22, then throw. Plenty of players online are wising up to this and duck the throw, then whiff punish or uppercut to get the krushing blow trigger.
 
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STB Bodam

BodamEscapePlan
here ya go 8)
No offense, my man but unless we're talking offline, that is insanely droppable. Although, I suppose we're talking "optimal" here.

I like @Hitoshura's suggestion to make F4 special cancel. I don't think Noob needs a lot besides corrections to his hurtbox/hitbox, his Krushing Blows fixed a bit, and the properties of Shadow Tackle not being so garbage. I don't much care for Ghostball or really the Seeing Double variation as a whole, as plenty of characters have one terrible variation (I know... that's a lame thing to say but it's true.) I think @M2Dave hit it right on the head really when he said that Noob will essentially be "buffed" by the top-tier characters getting nerfed.
 
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No offense, my man but unless we're talking offline, that is insanely droppable. Although, I suppose we're talking "optimal" here.

I like @Hitoshura's suggestion to make F4 special cancel. I don't think Noob needs a lot besides corrections to his hurtbox/hitbox, his Krushing Blows fixed a bit, and the properties of Shadow Tackle not being so garbage. I don't much care for Ghostball or really the Seeing Double variation as a whole, as plenty of characters have one terrible variation (I know... that's a lame thing to say but it's true.) I think @M2Dave hit it right on the head really when he said that Noob will essentially be "buffed" by the top-tier characters getting nerfed.
The dash cancel into 113 11+3 Is very doable online. It's the optimal dash cancel 113 into dash cancel 113 shadowtackle for 420 dmg that's very droppable online. I got it once when I was yoloing and celebrated lol. Maybe I'm wrong though. Anyone able to truly do optimal's off 113 online with Noob? I'd be curious
 

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
Im confident i can do it with a wired connection its when they are wireless the lag spikes change timing every time u try it
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Has anyone played online as of the new patch? I swear, the netplay is getting worse and worse! So bad even that when I play people with full 4 bar wired connections I still get insane lag spikes, teleportation and match disconnects. I have great internet, too, and it's wired. I shouldn't be experiencing this issue, and I know it's not only me because people I play with consistently are experiencing the same issues.
 
It's def worse. I stopped accepting wireless matches.

My biggest pet peeve is finding a good connection and the other guy either a) has a mic or b) fatalities after 1 match. The time lost watching a full fatality and the post game stats crap after every. single. match gets annoying af.
 
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Hitoshura

Head Cage
How do i punish scorpion death spin?
What is death spin? Is it that move where he twirls his chain around a few times? If so, you punish it with f2,2,1 x shadow tackle, or f2,2,1,2. Whichever you prefer. If they do it and they're close to the corner you can punish it with f2,2,1 x shadow upknee, b1,1+3 xx amplified teleslam, b1,1+3 x spirit ball.
 

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
Has anyone played online as of the new patch? I swear, the netplay is getting worse and worse! So bad even that when I play people with full 4 bar wired connections I still get insane lag spikes, teleportation and match disconnects. I have great internet, too, and it's wired. I shouldn't be experiencing this issue, and I know it's not only me because people I play with consistently are experiencing the same issues.
Played a good few ranked matches after the patch last night and i noticed a huge improvement , havent played today yet though
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
This character needs a one hit splat OH (similar to Scorps) and he'd be golden.

jesus you can't get anyone to stand block or fear an OH. Throws do not condition anyone to block high.

if they aren't going to do that.... then some of his staggers need to be closer to 0.

Maybe they will... maybe they won't. He plays like a bootleg version of Scorpion.
 
SIAP, but after playing over 300 games with noob, and my crappy 38% win rate I have a big observation.
Jump ins are a major, major part of his game. I find in extended sets, jump in 2 with 112 conditioning WILL open up the low B 3 and 212 combos. I think that's why the jump teleport and slow ass air downward kick are part of his kit.
The push back and chip from 112 adds up. He requires Supreme patience to bide time. His d2 and 11+3 KBs combo damage essentially guarantee at least one round from massive damage alone....switching the KB to the manual select can make you become surgical with them.
I'm not abandoning noob, he's forcing me to be a better neutral player that translates to the entire cast.
 
What are your thoughts on B3 into Tele as a launcher? I'm mainly a Kabal player but I'm trying to learn other characters and I really like Noob despite reading about his cons and how Kabal kinda has the same style but does everything (except damage) better.

Sometimes I get B3 into tele online and it definitely seems kinda hard to do but it's the kind of thing I thought pro players would get it to work more often but to my surprise it doesn't seem to be a popular option at all from the sets I've seen. Should I keep practicing it or should I focus on something else?
 

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
What are your thoughts on B3 into Tele as a launcher? I'm mainly a Kabal player but I'm trying to learn other characters and I really like Noob despite reading about his cons and how Kabal kinda has the same style but does everything (except damage) better.

Sometimes I get B3 into tele online and it definitely seems kinda hard to do but it's the kind of thing I thought pro players would get it to work more often but to my surprise it doesn't seem to be a popular option at all from the sets I've seen. Should I keep practicing it or should I focus on something else?
If they block u are gonna get max damage punished and u cant hit confirm it so its a yolo option i sometimes open a match with it if theyre an aggressive player
 
If they block u are gonna get max damage punished and u cant hit confirm it so its a yolo option i sometimes open a match with it if theyre an aggressive player
Hmm I see so it's a bad habit trying to go for it too often. Maybe my opponents online are open now but when and if I get better It'll probably won't work anymore.
 

Dante

Noob
Hmm I see so it's a bad habit trying to go for it too often. Maybe my opponents online are open now but when and if I get better It'll probably won't work anymore.
You can consistently confirm it if done in response to them hitting buttons. My most common setup for it is F22 on block then backdash cancel into b3 and while I press b3 I look for the opponent pressing buttons and do the tele
 
You can consistently confirm it if done in response to them hitting buttons. My most common setup for it is F22 on block then backdash cancel into b3 and while I press b3 I look for the opponent pressing buttons and do the tele
Got it, I'll try that!! Also, whats your visual cue to connect the Tele? I did it really fast sometimes in practice but it didn't work consistently.

Thanks a lot!
 

Dante

Noob
Got it, I'll try that!! Also, whats your visual cue to connect the Tele? I did it really fast sometimes in practice but it didn't work consistently.

Thanks a lot!
Inputting it is kinda shitty cause nrs :p
Try holding the last direction needed for the special. In this case, up
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
If they block u are gonna get max damage punished and u cant hit confirm it so its a yolo option i sometimes open a match with it if theyre an aggressive player
THere is an OS to where if the b3 is blocked the tele won't come out.
I would look this up as I do it quite often to catch people thinking they can push buttons at its max range.