Nightwolf General Discussion Thread

[LawAbidingCitizen]

And another thing about command grab KB. Tell me if I understand this correctly about reversal punishes. Reversal punish is when you do a move while you are still in recovery from blocking and it's fast enough to punish them. Right? What is reversal then? Is that the same except it's not a punish because they can block but can't attack? Like jailing?

I tried his command grab on -10 move and it said reversal. That's why I'm asking because his grab is 12 frames so ot obviously can't punish but it is a reversal.

A reversal is just doing a move 5f after you recover from their attacks and punish is punishing within the tine they are negative.

For example if Shang does B11 and I block it I can reversal throw it because my throw is 10f startup And his B11 is -11 on block. But I couldn't do Nightwolf's CMD Grab because its 14f startup way slower than he is recovering.

So if you Want to get a Reversal Throw Punish their move needs to be -11 or more on block because throws are universally 10f startup. The reason you want to do them is they can't be teched and that's huge and easy unbreakable damage especially if NW has his Wolf Buff active 16-17.5% free.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I just came here to say I'm baffled how many of yall are using the command grab variation, it's absolute trash.

I'll PuT it this way:
Cassie Yaas Queen does 20% midscreen and she was considered top 3. Nightwolf Ancestral Gift has 20% restands into +10 just like Cassie and gets more damage in the corner, has 50/50's and has CMD Grab's and ticks off his Auto Shimmy his +1 jab his overhead F2121 that's a safe hit confirmable mid and has a better shoulder than Cassie and a reflect with a TP that can punish all projectiles for 20% easy 30% if you have execution. His JIk gets 30% midscreen and 35% corner and 46% with fatal. He has awesome staggers that can turn into a 50/50 both doing 20% 3xxdashcancel-B341+3/312 if he hits the KB its far more than20%.

I feel both variations have thieR benefits

 

[dribirut]

Obviously it’s still early but he seems average as fuck. Maybe even bad

 

[MeSoFoolish]

Nominally i'd agree with the sentiment, but yeah the command grab variation does seem kinda bad. Like say you do f2121 and after the third hit you get your shoulder/grab mixup right? Its a 50/50, except both your options are unsafe if they guess right, so you are also coinflipping yourself. On top of that, the enemy is gonna get a much larger damage payout if they correctly guess than you will.

So kinda poopy.

Sure, probably not top tier but 'absolute trash'? Noooo way.
Have you tried to cancel your arrow after F2121? As long as you dont pull it 5 times a match they respect your bow and you have time enough to block/throw/11/d3.

I was gonna give some arguments why he is not trash but someone already did it for me.

I'll PuT it this way:
Cassie Yaas Queen does 20% midscreen and she was considered top 3. Nightwolf Ancestral Gift has 20% restands into +10 just like Cassie and gets more damage in the corner, has 50/50's and has CMD Grab's and ticks off his Auto Shimmy his +1 jab his overhead F2121 that's a safe hit confirmable mid and has a better shoulder than Cassie and a reflect with a TP that can punish all projectiles for 20% easy 30% if you have execution. His JIk gets 30% midscreen and 35% corner and 46% with fatal. He has awesome staggers that can turn into a 50/50 both doing 20% 3xxdashcancel-B341+3/312 if he hits the KB its far more than20%.

I feel both variations have thieR benefits

 

[Evil Canadian]

Doh very saddened to learn that b13/b132 pressure is mostly fake as if the enemy has a 7f move they can just smack you out of the third hit of the move with little consequence.

At least stand 31/312 is still pretty real.

 

[Jowabunga]

Anyone else been seeing issues with the second hit of DF2MB being low-profiled mid-screen, with the animation causing him to leap over and side switch? vs. Noob yesterday I had it happen 2 or 3 times in roughly half an hour of play.

 

[MadPropz101]

I'll PuT it this way:
Cassie Yaas Queen does 20% midscreen and she was considered top 3. Nightwolf Ancestral Gift has 20% restands into +10 just like Cassie and gets more damage in the corner, has 50/50's and has CMD Grab's and ticks off his Auto Shimmy his +1 jab his overhead F2121 that's a safe hit confirmable mid and has a better shoulder than Cassie and a reflect with a TP that can punish all projectiles for 20% easy 30% if you have execution. His JIk gets 30% midscreen and 35% corner and 46% with fatal. He has awesome staggers that can turn into a 50/50 both doing 20% 3xxdashcancel-B341+3/312 if he hits the KB its far more than20%.

I feel both variations have thieR benefits

His command grab is not that great when you compare it to other characters, also f2121 is not safe no matter how much you stagger it.

 

[Jowabunga]

Anyone else been seeing issues with the second hit of DF2MB being low-profiled mid-screen, with the animation causing him to leap over and side switch? vs. Noob yesterday I had it happen 2 or 3 times in roughly half an hour of play.

I did some labbing - it's the dreaded "female hitbox" issue, also works with Noob. Neutral ducking the amp hit low profiles and causes the jumpover. Marvelous!

 

[Juanchaaa]

Anti wake up tech with Ancestral Gift, hope it helps.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

His command grab is not that great when you compare it to other characters, also f2121 is not safe no matter how much you stagger it.

Its safe because its hit confirmable like every one of his buttons. 11, 31, 22, F12, F21, B13, B34 are all hit confirmable.

I think his CMD Grab is one of the best despite being a high. Its plus 70 when amped, works in combo, can be ticked off 1, 11, F2121, D1, D3 & D4. And 11 is an auto shimmy.
When amped you can choose sides.
He can tick from more buttons than most of the cast. Has great oki from it. Has great range and swollows up D4's.

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

Anti wake up tech with Ancestral Gift, hope it helps.

So generally, the amount of hit adv on knockdown will affect the outcome of an anti get up?

 

[Jowabunga]

Added tidbit on the low profiling for amped df2: it also happens consistently with crouch blocking too. That means against probably half the cast amped df2 will result in a whiff and full combo punish.

I really hope this was not intentional. It's enough to get me to switch to Ancestral Gift for now.

 

[_smash_]

Added tidbit on the low profiling for amped df2: it also happens consistently with crouch blocking too. That means against probably half the cast amped df2 will result in a whiff and full combo punish.

I really hope this was not intentional. It's enough to get me to switch to Ancestral Gift for now.

It's only a problem if you're amplifying on block. It's a launcher not a a pressure tool. Use the arrow as an ender or just don't cancel into rising tomahawk at the end of a block string very often. There are better ways to open people up with him.

 

[Juggs]

Nightwolf’s frame data is pretty bad. Like not the worst, but gonna have to rework his gameplay to fit his frame data. Didn’t think Scorpion would have better FD. I’m used to either good pokes and mobility with Scorp, or great normals with range and safety with Jacqui. Gonna have to play NW as a zoner and footsies with a bunch of auto shimmying and throw loops.

 

[Jowabunga]

It's only a problem if you're amplifying on block. It's a launcher not a a pressure tool. Use the arrow as an ender or just don't cancel into rising tomahawk at the end of a block string very often. There are better ways to open people up with him.

Ywah I'm aware it's not optimal use of the tool but that still doesn't excuse variable behavior against part of the cast (Cassie and Noob, so far). Some of us are a little more hit-confirm challenged than others.

 

[MadPropz101]

Its safe because its hit confirmable like every one of his buttons. 11, 31, 22, F12, F21, B13, B34 are all hit confirmable.

F2 is unsafe, F21 is unsafe, and F212 is unsafe.

 

[Evil Canadian]

F2 is unsafe, F21 is unsafe, and F212 is unsafe.

f21 is plenty safe with the pushback, its effectively unpunishable. I am sure there might be an example or two but for the most part nobody is gonna touch it at the distance it leaves you at.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

F2 is unsafe, F21 is unsafe, and F212 is unsafe.

F21 is -9 with hella pushback. Its safe af. That's more range than Kotals dick. Subs slide is too slow, jacquis grease kick can't reach and everyone's standing jabs can't reach. Even too safe for advancing 9f mids.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

f21 is plenty safe with the pushback, its effectively unpunishable. I am sure there might be an example or two but for the most part nobody is gonna touch it at the distance it leaves you at.

Liu Kang, Cassie, and Jacqui's F4, reversal Slide/Shadow Kick/Kano Ball/Shoulder could all hit it

 

[Evil Canadian]

Liu Kang, Cassie, and Jacqui's F4, reversal Slide/Shadow Kick/Kano Ball/Shoulder could all hit it

• jacqui f4 cannot punish it, its much too slow and couldn't punish it even if it left him point blank
• Cassie has nothing that can punish
• liu kang has nothing fast enough to punish it
• kano ball is too slow to punish it
• slide is too slow to punish it
• shadow kick is too slow to punish it

like, maybe try these things out before just saying that? Moves that are 10-12 frames startup couldn't punish a -9 move point blank anyways, let alone with all the pushback.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

• jacqui f4 cannot punish it, its much too slow and couldn't punish it even if it left him point blank
• Cassie has nothing that can punish
• liu kang has nothing fast enough to punish it
• kano ball is too slow to punish it
• slide is too slow to punish it
• shadow kick is too slow to punish it

like, maybe try these things out before just saying that? Moves that are 10-12 frames startup couldn't punish a -9 move point blank anyways, let alone with all the pushback.

I completely read the wrong frame data lemme go rooflemonger please I won't do it again

 

[Evil Canadian]

I completely read the wrong frame data lemme go rooflemonger please I won't do it again

its all good friend even the best of us make mistakes sometimes

ALSO WHO THE FUCK IS ROOFLEMONGER IM SURE I DONT KNOW WHO THAT IS IM EVIL CANADIAN

 

[Zviko]

Also, you can just hit confirm the F21 part if you really don't trust F21 being safe. You do another 21 on hit and cancel into special or do 4 which is -6. It's not easy but it's doable.

 

[Jowabunga]

I think his CMD Grab is one of the best despite being a high. Its plus 70 when amped, works in combo, can be ticked off 1, 11, F2121, D1, D3 & D4. And 11 is an auto shimmy.

I feel like I'm losing my mind with this game lately. 2-3 days ago I was farting around with Ancestral in the lab and confirmed 11 ticked into his command grab, cool. Was pretty excited to see that F2121 was on the list based on the above quote.

I went back into the lab this morning vs. Noob and Sub (just to have a different model in there) fartin' around nd it's no longer ticking off 11 or F2121, just the downpokes. Am I crazy, missing something, ? Is it possible something snuck in with the 8/17 patch?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I feel like I'm losing my mind with this game lately. 2-3 days ago I was farting around with Ancestral in the lab and confirmed 11 ticked into his command grab, cool. Was pretty excited to see that F2121 was on the list based on the above quote.

I went back into the lab this morning vs. Noob and Sub (just to have a different model in there) fartin' around nd it's no longer ticking off 11 or F2121, just the downpokes. Am I crazy, missing something, ? Is it possible something snuck in with the 8/17 patch?

They still work, set AI to block. If you have it on block always it wiffs. You can set it to stance hold as well.

His ticks:
1
11
2
F2121
D1
D3
D4

All of those work for me.