Nightwolf General Discussion Thread

[TheJaxLife]

I have been using command grab, extended strings, and moonfall. In my opinion this is what his grappler variation always should have been. You lose the crazy damage from his launchers obviously, but moonfall gives you something to do with all of the plus frames of his amp command grab and a little combo extender.

 

[MuMuGuy]

How about rising tomahawk and hanas wrath? I try this one next.

Hana’s Wrath is anti-useful without the command grab. Wrath has 30f or so of startup and has slow recovery, so AMPed command grab is the only way to reliably use it without being combo video punished.

Nightwolf is just a poorly implemented character in MK11. The only other character with just as little freedom with Custom Variations is Sonya.

 

[Malec]

Hana’s Wrath is anti-useful without the command grab. Wrath has 30f or so of startup and has slow recovery, so AMPed command grab is the only way to reliably use it without being combo video punished.

Nightwolf is just a poorly implemented character in MK11. The only other character with just as little freedom with Custom Variations is Sonya.

Why you can shoot it after every combo in their wakeup, after back throw, in zoning to shut down amped projectiles.

 

[Swoops]

Hard agree with @Malec I think Hana's Wrath is super easy to get out and use. 30 frames isn't that slow for a mid projectile with the properties of HW. Shoulder is +25 and sets up perfectly for the birb only allowing the opponent to NJ or jump back which can actually give you a punish. 312, F214/1+2, 112, throw, zoning wars, etc there's a lot of opportunities to get it out.

I would say its recovery isn't a big deal either because it's safe on block point blank, plus from a distance, and very advantage on hit. It's also super active and has a wide hitbox so it's often difficult to jump over for a punish.

Starting to think it's an insane move because of how many characters have strong options that are reliant on meter. Krushing blows, good combo damage, cancels, etc. Hell it even disables fatal blow. I would argue it's very awkward to fit into NW's gameplan sometimes but I've had a lot of fun watching people struggle to get anything going when they can't amp for that KB or 30% combo lol

 

[Benlo]

I still don't understand how NW Hana's Wrath was made available in KL, and not the similar move Skarlet got : /

 

[Malec]

Hard agree with @Malec I think Hana's Wrath is super easy to get out and use. 30 frames isn't that slow for a mid projectile with the properties of HW. Shoulder is +25 and sets up perfectly for the birb only allowing the opponent to NJ or jump back which can actually give you a punish. 312, F214/1+2, 112, throw, zoning wars, etc there's a lot of opportunities to get it out.

I would say its recovery isn't a big deal either because it's safe on block point blank, plus from a distance, and very advantage on hit. It's also super active and has a wide hitbox so it's often difficult to jump over for a punish.

Starting to think it's an insane move because of how many characters have strong options that are reliant on meter. Krushing blows, good combo damage, cancels, etc. Hell it even disables fatal blow. I would argue it's very awkward to fit into NW's gameplan sometimes but I've had a lot of fun watching people struggle to get anything going when they can't amp for that KB or 30% combo lol

Agreed. Most projectiles have second hits amped, that makes reflect hard/useless to use. With Hana, its way harder to zone NW.
Disabling Breaker before a rising tomahawk combo is also great, cause NW has no Option against break away otherwise with rising tomahawk

 

[TheBeep]

Nightwolf suffers from not having enough variation slots for online play to be honest. There's a lot of time where since you only have like 5 slots and you really need a specific variation for a MU but can't cuz you only have 5 slots.

 

[Obly]

Hard agree with @Malec I think Hana's Wrath is super easy to get out and use. 30 frames isn't that slow for a mid projectile with the properties of HW. Shoulder is +25 and sets up perfectly for the birb only allowing the opponent to NJ or jump back which can actually give you a punish. 312, F214/1+2, 112, throw, zoning wars, etc there's a lot of opportunities to get it out.

I would say its recovery isn't a big deal either because it's safe on block point blank, plus from a distance, and very advantage on hit. It's also super active and has a wide hitbox so it's often difficult to jump over for a punish.

Starting to think it's an insane move because of how many characters have strong options that are reliant on meter. Krushing blows, good combo damage, cancels, etc. Hell it even disables fatal blow. I would argue it's very awkward to fit into NW's gameplan sometimes but I've had a lot of fun watching people struggle to get anything going when they can't amp for that KB or 30% combo lol

I've been wondering when folks were going to start noticing how good Hana's Wrath is. I've been using it since Ultimate dropped and can't believe how it's being slept on. It gives NW a pretty rare, powerful ability that really enhances both his attack and defense.

It may have a slow startup, but the recovery is quite short; that's why it's safe on block at any range. It still shouldn't be used in a block string (the startup gap is easy to blow up) or for zoning (it's not a good trade vs. other projectiles), but there are several other ways to set it up. I personally haven't had any difficulty working it into my game plan. Folks might think this is crazy, but I actually think it's more effective than even lightning arrow in a lot of MUs.

I still don't understand how NW Hana's Wrath was made available in KL, and not the similar move Skarlet got : /

Skarlet's Killer Clot is a lot different. She sets it as a persistent trap on the fight line and it lasts a long time. She can fight as normal while it's out, and if the opponent gets near it, the clot will start chasing and can't be blocked. While it's active, the opponent can't use meter and can't cancel buttons and strings into special moves.

Hana's Wrath also disables all meter usage, but doesn't affect special cancels. Also the debuff can be avoided by flawless blocking, and NW generally can't do anything else while the bird is active (the most he can get is some plus frames if it's blocked from a long distance). It's a great ability but not as crazy good as the clot.

I kinda wish NRS would just make clot a two-slot move and let her use it, but we'll just have to wait and see what they do.

 

[TheBeep]

Pretty sure HW is mostly safe if you get a hop attack to land before it. Also certain strings at certian distances to the corner make it so that the bird is right above them as they get up.

 

[TheBeep]

Honestly it feels like Nightwolf has some abilities that should be default on him or that he shouldn't pay 2 bars for them what others get for free, only for 1 bar or the 2 slots it uses are well worth it. His launchers need 2 slots and 1 requires him losing the shoulder tackle to get it, command grab should be at least part of his base, the animals should honestly either be merged into 1 abiltiy or be something more interactive instead of "do buff get stuff" for all 3. why no Bear ability that alters his moves like "with the power of bear his command grab (now innate to NW) does more damage and NW can choose to switch sides"? Ancestral light is fun but it takes 2 bars which yeah it's a powerful full screen zoning tool but his base kit special moves is so barebones quantity wise to the point that ancestral light+another ability has some holes that make it hard to use AL sets outside of certain MU's.