Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[Sajam]

Once again, I didn't say it was one of Grundy's worst. You misread the previous post again, I was talking about HG.

Well, Escrima is where Dick got his mobility to react quicker to Grundy's moves.

His swamp hands are readable tho, if you get caught by that then it was just a lazy read.

I agree with everything else, but we just got difference experiences from that match up so it's okay to see this a little differently, I can see what you're trying to say.

I know his swamp hands are readable. I was holding ground spark from full screen and backdashing his mb swamp hands when he tried it. I was mentioning some of Grundy's options in the matchup. He can and will react to your zoning or your patterns and use mb swamp hands.

Take a Chance and I have given tons of reasons and information for why it's a 5-5, and I specifically mentioned I've played strong Grundy players besides Tyrant (Like that changes the number). If you don't see it, then you don't see it, but I went out of my way to explain the matchup from somehow who has strong experience in it. The fight about whatever player you are playing is irrelevant, and I'm glad I didn't get involved. I'm still doing a write up for this matchup, so hopefully I can help out the NW players who aren't familiar with fighting a strong Grundy.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

add meee @ FlexoHyland

on xbox?

 

[Sajam]

My biggest weakness in our matchups is lack of experience in the mirror.

I will say this. Stop pushing buttons after I block b2. You were getting away with murder with the b1 after it.

You rely on wingdings a lot, and they are very effective in the mirror, but offline, I WILL anti air you lol. In our last few bouts I was trying to block them and get in and d2, but it was still proving difficult because A) You are good at delaying the meter burn and B) I would over dash and go for a d2 and it would whiff.

Your b2 confirms were great tho.

The reason I switched to deathstroke was because I didn't want to do the mirror anymore, and because I wanted to see how you did without wing dings being so prevalent. In the deathstroke matchup you NEED staff. Your insistancy to stay in Escrima was your downfall.

Every blocked regular gunshot is a staff pound check.

Yeah, I thinkg NWDZ does a bit too many wing dings at unsafe heights. To bait wing dings I do the same thing I do against GL rocket, do ground spark dash cancel and get under NW before he throws them. Free punish every time. Oh yes, no swinging off of blocked b2. I saw that 24/7.

Did either of you record the set? I'd watch it just to see the difference between the set you guys had and ours.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Yeah, I thinkg NWDZ does a bit too many wing dings at unsafe heights. To bait wing dings I do the same thing I do against GL rocket, do ground spark dash cancel and get under NW before he throws them. Free punish every time. Oh yes, no swinging off of blocked b2. I saw that 24/7.

Did either of you record the set? I'd watch it just to see the difference between the set you guys had and ours.

Xsplit wouldn't update without a reboot, it would have meant I needed to restart my xbox as well. We just went in and knocked it out. Very short set. FT5 if that.

I'm breaking down some gameplay from yesterday. Finishing my lunch. I'll have about 3 hours to bang out some matches before hitting the gym. Then I'll be back for more tonight.

 

[Sajam]

Xsplit wouldn't update without a reboot, it would have meant I needed to restart my xbox as well. We just went in and knocked it out. Very short set. FT5 if that.

I'm breaking down some gameplay from yesterday. Finishing my lunch. I'll have about 3 hours to bang out some matches before hitting the gym. Then I'll be back for more tonight.

You should stream while your break down footage, so I'm not stuck here bored waiting until class starts/fall asleep until class starts.

Maybe I should stream instead. Somebody should stream. I don't know who, but somebody.

 

[1truking]

I don't agree because you can't based one person as the representation of a 100 or more people. It's a weak measure of the character play. Is everyone going to play Tryant's Grundy? No man.

if you want to make a measurement of an average...where's the medium? There's other Grundy players in the world besides Tryant and they represent the Grundy community, it'll be a disservice to them and NW players if you just based the match up on one person's style of play. That's actually a horrible way at looking at this match up. There may be a Grundy player out there that plays a different but effective style than Tryant and you won't be giving him attention because Tryant presents all Grundy players.

and Superman vs NW is 7-3 whether is KDZ or just an average player, Supes got more tools to keep Dick honest.

I started thinking the match was one of grundy's worst then figured out 1 trick that put it in grundy's favor. I personally think its a 6-4 grundy. At high levels and average levels.

An average grundy only needs to know these things vs an average nightwing. When you see him jump for a wing ding you WCC d2 11 mb sh reset for 50% if you can't do that you can do wcc b3 uf3 11 trait for over 40% no meter. NW can't do a normal jump at him or he'll get aa thrown. His wakeup game isn't that intimidating for grundy in escrima.

In staff stance he has some moves that have unthrowable frames that are annoying but WCC d2 solves that for the most part. The staff pound doesn't track so if you block one you can forward dash and block in case they mb it. If they don't have meter you can get 2 full dashes and in most cases it leads to a full combo. Most nw will get jumpy after being hit with WC a couple times and in staff its not a great jump and the AA grab works well as does wcc d2. Flying grayson is punished with d2 on reaction as long as you're not rushing in blindly. On wakeup vs staff you do your neutral j2 set ups and crossup or not staff spin will miss and typically grundy gets a full combo. You can't mb staff spin or you eat a combo. your d1 game is limited by mb trait.

The only times I really have trouble with nw are online where I can't land a consistent WCC.

Also I've played with Tyrant before and watched plenty of footage. He is the best grundy but there are things he can improve on. He doesn't maximize damage as often as he should.

But ignoring all this the whole point of a matchup/tier list is to base it on highest level of play and potential. Arguements like not everybody plays like this or nobody can do X combo or Y strategy yet aren't valid because no matter how difficult X combo or Y strategy are eventually somebody gets it down. You used to hear lightning loops were too hard now everybody does them. you used to hear doom tac combo's were too hard now everybody does them.

Also grundy should never be doing SH against escrima unless you did wing dings with bad spacing. Its not a move you just throw out although in staff stance you can throw it out more because it will hit random jumping if timed properly.

 

[TakeAChance]

We should do more sets later dayzero. I am enjoying trying to decipher the mirror.

 

[14K]

Anyone from EU Psn ?

 

[Sajam]

We should do more sets later dayzero. I am enjoying trying to decipher the mirror.

And I can watch and pester/help you guys out.

 

[TakeAChance]

And I can watch and pester/help you guys out.

lol indeed.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

I've played Relax State's Cyborg. There's no reason to jump when dash block and dash duck works Also spamming d1 and getting blown up by a MB b3 read can happen in any matchup. So I don't really see your point.
Sent from the Batcave

MB B3 is even more deadly with cyborg because you have to get in again. the flash does it and he goes in again.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

Then I win the zoning war, because I force you to jump and not zone. I could easily grayson if I notice you continue to jump after every pound. I am forcing you to adjust. That means I win the zoning war.

Even if this is at full screen and you nj or jump and I grayson, I close in space and shutdown your zoning. Once nightwing is on top of ares, he is in trouble.

If Ares gets his fireballs out first from full screen, Nightwing can't do anything in staff stance tho.

you can flying grayson on reaction to someone jumping? flying grayson isn't even that good of a move. it gets full combo punished a lot.

 

[TakeAChance]

you can flying grayson on reaction to someone jumping? flying grayson isn't even that good of a move. it gets full combo punished a lot.

...Yes I can flying grayson on reaction to jumping.

I think every nightwing on this board can Staff pound, delay the next pound (in anticipation of a jump) and then grayson as soon as they see you leaving your feet.

It's pretty much a staple.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

You're talking in circles. Somewhere in that keyboard vomit you're making the case for a 5-5, where before you were swearing it's 6-4 for anyone but Tyrant.

If you're trying to save face, well done. I have no idea what the fuck is you're trying to get across. Either you're purposely trying to misdirect the conversation or you've gone full on mouth breather on me.

Edit: You know what? Fuck this conversation. If you think the MU is 6-4 in NW's favor, fuck it. Enjoy your 6-4.

on xbox?

PS3

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

...Yes I can flying grayson on reaction to jumping.

I think every nightwing on this board can Staff pound, delay the next pound (in anticipation of a jump) and then grayson as soon as they see you leaving your feet.

It's pretty much a staple.

you can flying grayson on reaction to someone jumping? flying grayson isn't even that good of a move. it gets full combo punished a lot.

Flying Grayson is pretty dirty if used timely. It should only be used on a reaction, a raw Flying Grayson can be punished but the usefulness of it lies in being air attacks or any moment an opponent leaves the ground they can get punished.

Of course, if you're Hawkgirl everything is easier.

 

[XxM3LLOxX]

Finally got to do some NW mirrors with TakeAChance. GGs yet again man, i enjoyed it. its funny seeing the pain on the other side lol

 

[BigMilk]

lol indeed.

Did someone say NW only koth? im in lol

 

[Blind_Falcon]

Hey Dicks!
I'm an average Nightwing at best, trying to get better as I go.
Injustice is the first fighting game I've gotten into, not including Smash bros lol.

Anyway, is there anything Dick can do to stop Flash rushdown?
Or is pushblock my only option to relieve pressure?

Options in Escrima and Staff would be appreciated.

Also, GL. I understand that the MU isn't in Nightwing's favour, but does he have anything to make it easier?
I got some tips from Sajam's video. Is there anything else? Or did he cover it all?

Thanks

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Hey Dicks!
I'm an average Nightwing at best, trying to get better as I go.
Injustice is the first fighting game I've gotten into, not including Smash bros lol.

Anyway, is there anything Dick can do to stop Flash rushdown?
Or is pushblock my only option to relieve pressure?

Options in Escrima and Staff would be appreciated.

Also, GL. I understand that the MU isn't in Nightwing's favour, but does he have anything to make it easier?
I got some tips from Sajam's video. Is there anything else? Or did he cover it all?

Thanks

You have PSN or Xbox?

 

[Blind_Falcon]

You have PSN or Xbox?

PSN

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

PSN

Theres a couple of PSN Nightwings around here you may want to get familiar with, they're helpful overall.


you can add KombatNerd and FlexoHyland, I'm heading to the gym now to train a client but I'll be back in about 4 hours if you still up for playing tonight. I'll run some Flash in practice mode so you can get familiar with the punishes and spacing.

 

[dribirut]

so i keep hearing nw players say nw beats mmh which i completely disagree.. what good nw player wants to play so i can hopefully change your mind lol
xbl btw

 

[Blind_Falcon]

Theres a couple of PSN Nightwings around here you may want to get familiar with, they're helpful overall.


you can add KombatNerd and FlexoHyland, I'm heading to the gym now to train a client but I'll be back in about 4 hours if you still up for playing tonight. I'll run some Flash in practice mode so you can get familiar with the punishes and spacing.

I appreciate the help, but I will definitely be asleep in 4 hours, I have to be up early for work tomorrow.
Another time?

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Anyway, is there anything Dick can do to stop Flash rushdown?
Or is pushblock my only option to relieve pressure?

Options in Escrima and Staff would be appreciated.

The Flash matchup in a nutshell:

Nightwing keeps Flash out with Staff

OR

Flash gets in and all hell breaks loose.

This matchup can get pretty one-sided and snowball pretty fast for both characters. Whenever I play against our local Flash, the matches start out pretty close back-and-forth games, and then just turn into one guy demolishes the other matches. Honestly, yes, I would pushblock at any opportunity where you feel like you have meter to spare, especially if you have a life lead. Much like Batgirl, you have to stay at a range where Flash has to play super patient and can't get to you easily. You out-space him in Staff of course; be sure to use that to your advantage. When you have him halfscreen or more away, don't try to staff pound one after the other all the time, place them so that Flash has to work to get in, instead of just running man stance -> forward tackle to your chest.

After MB rising uppercut (Whatever the move is actually called), Flash is at +3 on block. Just respect him and take the mixup. You can react to his overheads, so block low and react high. Or pushblock, that works too (but you won't always have an abundance of meter to do this). And most importantly, if Flash is in trait, do not press buttons unless it's back to block. Everything becomes hella +frames lol.

Don't jump in on him either unless it's from a safe jump setup. You'll get d2'ed every time. Avoiding getting knocked down is pretty key too, because ambiguous Sonic Pound mixups are such a pain to deal with.

Just out-neutral the hell out of him, lock him down, and don't give him a chance to get his nonsense started.

 

[TakeAChance]

Finally got to do some NW mirrors with TakeAChance. GGs yet again man, i enjoyed it. its funny seeing the pain on the other side lol

GG's man!

Today has been pretty much a straight mirror day for me lol.

I have never played NW's on my level until today. It was a lot of fun! Definitely a matchup I overlooked lol.

I started stealing some of your shit mid way through the set Mellow...I got to use the b2 more. You and Dayzero are much better at confirming it than I am. I usually toss it out thinking it will get blocked and tack on the spark or the flip kick.

Good stuff to both of you.