Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[AssassiN]

I failed the Dick players, I lost to two Superman players.

I feel like every matchup in this game is very winnable, but some can be difficult. When it comes to Supes though, the Supes player has to really mess up to lose.

I agree, NW is the one who has to take all the risk. Most of the time your punishes will consist of Sparks or Pounds or Flying Graysons, sometimes you'll get the opportunity to do full combo punishes that consist of 30-40% while Sups gets 60% with one touch.
You have to start the round worrying about that F2 already... Your only option is backdash and duck, if he does F23 then 2 things can happen:
- The 3 hits and you're in that stupid shit of his
- The 3 whiffs and you can punish it

One thing I love to do is bait out his super by faking inputs and doing stance change, sometimes throw a pound in there just to mess them up.

 

[Sajam]

I agree, NW is the one who has to take all the risk. Most of the time your punishes will consist of Sparks or Pounds or Flying Graysons, sometimes you'll get the opportunity to do full combo punishes that consist of 30-40% while Sups gets 60% with one touch.
You have to start the round worrying about that F2 already... Your only option is backdash and duck, if he does F23 then 2 things can happen:
- The 3 hits and you're in that stupid shit of his
- The 3 whiffs and you can punish it

One thing I love to do is bait out his super by faking inputs and doing stance change, sometimes throw a pound in there just to mess them up.

Yeah, I have no problem outzoning Supes players, but if you get touched, for any reason, then the last 6 things you did right goes away. Also, baiting Super against Superman is the greatest. So much bar wasted for no reason.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Pboard, and Rip. I tried to slow the matchup down, but it's hard when I get 8-9 hits a game, and Supes gets 2 or 3.

Meh, just another matchup I have to grind out. I hear the nerfs to Supes I going to shorten f23 range and make lasers recover a lot slower. If that happens, I feel comfortable against any player in any matchup.

It's one of the hardest matchups for NW no doubt.

The best attempt for me is I tend to start the match figuring out if he's starting with the F23 right away. Some Supermans do it, some don't. I just start with blocking first until the combo string is over and try to punish back. I rather do that than try to JF3 and be sexy but fail and eat a 30% damage combo from Supes.

After I successfully avoid the F23 raping, I look out for his air dashes but also try not to back up too much to avoid being full screen for laser rape.

The most successful approach for me is surprising him with a low attack and immediate J3-Wingding into overhead, dash forward before he gets up and throw him. Low, Overhead and throw. Now he doesn't know what to expect since I'm coming at him at all angles and blocked his F23 and I'm not in laserspam range. Confident Superman players will not give a damn and will seek out to mantle their dominance. Phony Superman players will be psyc out by this and won't handle the pressure. From there, I take out the staff. Anytime I see Supes leave the floor, automatic J2 set up combo, Flying Graysons as soon as his wakes up off the floor or 2F2 Flying Graysons. If I get knocked down, wake up with Staff Spin and try to do another grab to keep him in the corner where I can poke him and put him in the most uncomfortable position position.

If I could get a ground spark MB into B3 combo set up, then I know my chances in winning are real and it's up to my play style to stay confidence but calm.

We Nightwing players know Superman is a beast and 2 mistakes can cost you the game. That also includes dropping combos.

Nightwing needs to produce as much damage as possible when playing against Superman who basically produces double the damage in half the effort.

Hopefully we can look back at this 3-6 months from now and laugh about Superman struggles.

Do you guys feel the Superman-Nightwing match is 7-3 or 6-4 in favor of Supes? I can see it being 5-5 if he gets buffed down. Remember I do believe he's very beatable but a very good and CONFIDENT Superman player will most of the time get the best of a NW player, regardless of playing level. Superman just has so many tools that can control the pace and space of the game.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Jargon aside, it's 6-4 probably. The game isn't unbalanced enough to have a ton of 7-3 matchups. It's one of the easiest matchups to grind too since everyone plays him. Once he gets "normalized" or whatever, it'll just be another 5-5. The only problem Nightwing has with Superman is really just f2,3. We can get in and stay in, it's just that Superman can contend with our pokes when his character design vs. Nightwing's shouldn't allow that. There's no reason a character like that should be able to go toe-to-toe with one of the most versatile rushdown characters in the game by using only one string. The cool thing is that there's really no mixup with Superman, which makes him manageable in my book.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I have the most trouble w superman, these notes will definitely help me out tho. Thank you guys. What do u guys think the MU w MMH is?

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I have the most trouble w superman, these notes will definitely help me out tho. Thank you guys. What do u guys think the MU w MMH is?

 

[mush210]

So is this supposed Superman "normalization" (wow....) comfirmed?

I'd rather see NW get buffs than superman get nerfs. He is superman after all..........

 

[Dasblackman]

I beat my first legit superman yesterday. Only escrima, he couldn't handle the pressure. It is possible, but extremely hard

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I have the most trouble w superman, these notes will definitely help me out tho. Thank you guys. What do u guys think the MU w MMH is?

6-4 Nightwing IMO right now. MMH hasn't been discovered deeply and has a lot of tools that can make it a hard match up. Raven has a better teleport than MM. I say 6-4 because I'm currently 22-1 against all Martian Manhunters, but the last 10 match ups have been close and winnable for them. I do believe MMH trait can give NW problems because of the range and slight damage increase it does for MMH.

I beat my first legit superman yesterday. Only escrima, he couldn't handle the pressure. It is possible, but extremely hard

Flip Kicks? Let me know your strategy against SP in Escrima.

I feel more comfortable going against Supes with the staff because Flying Grayson is just a great move to keep Superman out of the hair, as well all of Nightwing's jump attacks in staff, poking, staff spin and ground blast combos really work out.




BTW, speaking of Raven, how do you guys see that match up ?

 

[Dasblackman]

I just rush him down like crazy, fake out f213 with just f2, then cancel into d2, then candel into either df2 or db2, then just continue pressure. Extremely risky up close, but when it pays off, full combo. Getting in is the hard part.

With Superman it's a hella frustrating game, but it's trying to get the flow of the game in your favor and getting inside their head. In the corner I switch to staff.

 

[Dasblackman]

The trick is to make him think you whiffed, that's the hard part without actually whiffing

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

mush210 Nightwing doesn't need buffs. Also Superman can eat a grayson.

DickStick Raven's probably a 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 matchup in Nightwing's favor. She doesn't have a ton of tools to deal with him. Like, it's another one of those matchups where when you're in, you're in.

 

[alkipot]

What do people think of the Batgirl matchup? Personally I think it's very much in Nightwing's favour. You can jump her projectiles and wingding her at the right range since her recovery is so massive, and if you immediately use escrima ground projectile after ending a combo with j3 wingdings you can bait a teleport to punish since you'll recover in time to block (from what I've found, at most distances).

I've been also noticing an increasing amount of people trying to mirror match me out of frustration after a loss or two. They generally run to the corner in staff mode and repeat ground shock over and over, but trapping themselves there in staff mode against wingdings (at the right distance) ensures that they'll stay there until they lose. Wingdings > ground shock and flying grayson... or they just use Superman and own me with beams... lol, if I made them that pissed it still feels like a victory.

 

[Chongo]

Me and Blind Ducky have played that MU a ton and we both think it's 5-5. NW up close destroys her, but her demon stance can keep us out for a bit + build some meter for pushblock or MB Soul Crush.

Regarding Demon Stance I do not recommend just waiting it out, as it comes back pretty fast and she will deal hella chip and build meter. Just try to work your way in smartly.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

What do people think of the Batgirl matchup? Personally I think it's very much in Nightwing's favour. You can jump her projectiles and wingding her at the right range since her recovery is so massive, and if you immediately use escrima ground projectile after ending a combo with j3 wingdings you can bait a teleport to punish since you'll recover in time to block (from what I've found, at most distances).

I've been also noticing an increasing amount of people trying to mirror match me out of frustration after a loss or two. They generally run to the corner in staff mode and repeat ground shock over and over, but trapping themselves there in staff mode against wingdings (at the right distance) ensures that they'll stay there until they lose. Wingdings > ground shock and flying grayson... or they just use Superman and own me with beams... lol, if I made them that pissed it still feels like a victory.

Nightwing vs Batgirl is 6-4 to me...

 

[Chongo]

What do people think of the Batgirl matchup? Personally I think it's very much in Nightwing's favour. You can jump her projectiles and wingding her at the right range since her recovery is so massive, and if you immediately use escrima ground projectile after ending a combo with j3 wingdings you can bait a teleport to punish since you'll recover in time to block (from what I've found, at most distances).

I've been also noticing an increasing amount of people trying to mirror match me out of frustration after a loss or two. They generally run to the corner in staff mode and repeat ground shock over and over, but trapping themselves there in staff mode against wingdings (at the right distance) ensures that they'll stay there until they lose. Wingdings > ground shock and flying grayson... or they just use Superman and own me with beams... lol, if I made them that pissed it still feels like a victory.

After you block one of her 50/50s correctly, (b12 is -2, b2u3 is -7,) just tag her with a d1 in staff. She has to respect it because her d1 is 8 frames. Just keep d1ing her til you can't anymore, that will push her back so her stubby normals can't reach, then pressure her with 1.

 

[KombatNerd]

How do you feel about Cyborg? I've only fought him like once or twice so I can't really develop an opinion of the MU, but I do play the character.

 

[Dasblackman]

Getting in on Cyborg is a nightmare, mostly because no one plays him and his zoning is Marvel 3 level ridiculous

 

[NightwingDayZero]

How do you feel about Cyborg? I've only fought him like once or twice so I can't really develop an opinion of the MU, but I do play the character.

Easier than the GL MU

 

[Dasblackman]

Getting blown up by random Shazam's, no idea what to do against him and his command grabs. Never see shazams with combos. Also, anyone else finding all their inputs dropping tonight, some serious input lag

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I believe Green Lantern is easier than Cyborg, it's hard to read what Cyborg is doing where as Lantern has some brain dead moves and is easy to read once you respect Lantern's Might and B1 combo.

Cyborg is one of the toughest matchups for me as a NW player. I do better against Supes than Cyborg. His zoning is INTENSE.

KombatNerd 's Cyborg is a sex machine.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I believe Green Lantern is easier than Cyborg.

You can play footsies with Cyborg. Show me how to play footsies with GL and I'll praise your name.

 

[ferncaz95]

Sorry if this has been posted on this thread already, but I cannot beat Raven for the life of me. Her zoning always gets me. How do I deal with her without getting blown up by that anti-air grab?

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

You can play footsies with Cyborg. Show me how to play footsies with GL and I'll praise your name.

I just fuzzy block my way and return some punishing. Lanterns are pretty predictable(b1, air missiles, block and dash forward before they drop on the floor for a punish, etc) just due to me playing them so much. I just have very little exp against Cyborg, he's quite random with the air hadoukens and standing hadoukens and his missiles.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Sorry if this has been posted on this thread already, but I cannot beat Raven for the life of me. Her zoning always gets me. How do I deal with her without getting blown up by that anti-air grab?

You may invite yourself to not jumping. Follow a pattern of standing blocking and dash forward. Like guys said here before, Nightwing destroys Raven in close range. It's your duty to make your standing block firm but also be quick when she's free (usually after her little combo strings or attempt to Ermac you). Once you feel comfortable doing this successfully, you'll find more opportunities to work what you want do. Combos, resets, overheads, crossups, even grabs(as long as the grabs send her in the direction of being corner. If she uses trait and teleport, be ready to tech a grab or just grab her on instinct. It'll save you some damage. Raven is still a good character nonetheless and just like NW has ways to get to Raven, so does Raven.