Strategy Nightwing General Discussion (1.06 and on)

[TakeAChance]

Some Lab notes I have...

Take from them what you will

Nightwing
f213 f3 j2 dash under

b2 tech roll setup.

50/50 midscreen

f213 f2 j2 d3 dash

db3 or b2

Ambiguous Crossup setup (techable, but good mixed in with the rest of the setups)

F213 (or any starter) F3 J2 U3 (whiffs but you are in that special place directly on top of the corpse) Nj 2 (makes wakeups whiff)

 

[gpmoney]

ok guys youmacon is coming up in a few weeks and no matter how much I try and try My nightwing escrima is still buttcheeks. Its starting to piss me off, I have never struggled so much with any character but Dante in UMVC3. with that being said I need to grind and play as many matches as possible I've never placed at anything before outside of locals and that was only because other players didnt show and I really want to at least get top 8 at youmacon, and also WHAT AM I DOING WRONG WITH THESE ESCRIMA SPARK CANCELS? I can pull them off effortlessly in training but as soon as I get to a match NW just stands there. Also what spark cancel strings should I be abusing? I do d12, f213 or d12, 33,cancel f213 and start going crazy lol

 

[NightwingDayZero]

ok guys youmacon is coming up in a few weeks and no matter how much I try and try My nightwing escrima is still buttcheeks. Its starting to piss me off, I have never struggled so much with any character but Dante in UMVC3. with that being said I need to grind and play as many matches as possible I've never placed at anything before outside of locals and that was only because other players didnt show and I really want to at least get top 8 at youmacon, and also WHAT AM I DOING WRONG WITH THESE ESCRIMA SPARK CANCELS? I can pull them off effortlessly in training but as soon as I get to a match NW just stands there. Also what spark cancel strings should I be abusing? I do d12, f213 or d12, 33,cancel f213 and start going crazy lol

Here is some of my go to stuff with Nightwing in Escrima

d1 is +3, leading into a 7 frame f213 flipkick MB opener
d12 is +10 leading into a 5 frame 33 flipkick MB opener
a blocked 112 is +20 leading into 33 ground spark
f213x4xstaff spinx4 > back dash > b2 whiff punish

I'm still learning corner combos and mixups but the best place to go would be Sajam 's escrima guide. Sajam single handedly sold me on Escrima as the stance to be in - he's got some great stuff.

 

[Chongo]

Am I the only one who uses the b13 string? It's his only low string and catches a lot of people off guard and it's only -3. Granted I don't heavily rely on it, but I will throw it out sometimes to see the opponents reaction.

Also Frost can parry the low part of it, for some dumb reason.

 

[Sajam]

Am I the only one who uses the b13 string? It's his only low string and catches a lot of people off guard and it's only -3. Granted I don't heavily rely on it, but I will throw it out sometimes to see the opponents reaction.

Also Frost can parry the low part of it, for some dumb reason.

The problem I have with b13 is it gives people a way out, and b1 is too slow/not as good as other options in situations where you are plus enough to do it.

If somebody takes the hit of b13 then they are pretty much out of pressure for only taking a bit of damage from the low.

 

[Chongo]

The problem I have with b13 is it gives people a way out, and b1 is too slow/not as good as other options in situations where you are plus enough to do it.

If somebody takes the hit of b13 then they are pretty much out of pressure for only taking a bit of damage from the low.

Yeah, agreed. I don't use it that much, most of the time I completely forget it's a string, just wanted to see if anyone had some amount of success with it.

Only times I think of using it is in MU's where the other character has shit wakeups like Batman or Raven, but even then I barely use it.

 

[Sajam]

Yeah, agreed. I don't use it that much, most of the time I completely forget it's a string, just wanted to see if anyone had some amount of success with it.

Only times I think of using it is in MU's where the other character has shit wakeups like Batman or Raven, but even then I barely use it.

Characters with bad wakeups can be abused so damn hard by flipkicks and 112 traps that I don't even care about b13.

I know some people mentioned success with b13 or b1 flip kick, but they can just eat the low/wait for the flip kick and get out free like I mentioned before.

 

[Chongo]

Characters with bad wakeups can be abused so damn hard by flipkicks and 112 traps that I don't even care about b13.

Yeah, I don't know maybe I just really want to find a use for this string, but it's just not worth it when he has flipkick shenanigans instead.

I know some people mentioned success with b13 or b1 flip kick, but they can just eat the low/wait for the flip kick and get out free like I mentioned before.

One of the first things I tried when I discovered b13, and it's just bad. You could MB the flipkick to be +1 but I don't bother with it in that instance.

 

[GuamoKun]

I've been wondering lately, given how many people in this game tend to do some really dishonest trickery and what not, should we implement it in our game?

I want to try some stuff out thats dirty but I know errbody offline will punish such things like 1xxflying grayson grounded crossovers and d12 into j3 or 112 into j3 done repeatedly.

Or maybe its just me wanting to do Guimmicks like usual

 

[Joker's Shoes]

How does NW stack up in terms of zoners these days? Staff ground pound + Flying Grayson has won me a bunch of matches that I just plain shouldn't have won against guys much better than me (although I'm positive that guy playing Batman who enjoyed floating around was just getting cocky). Outdid a Sinestro too

 

[Sajam]

Dedicated zoners still do really well against NW.

Especially characters who dominate ground zoning and have decent options for wing dings.

 

[14K]

I've been wondering lately, given how many people in this game tend to do some really dishonest trickery and what not, should we implement it in our game?

Iv been away from the forum for a bit due to work but the other day i jumped online for the EU best players KOTH we do regularly and saw something that kinda pissed me off, so much so that i feel everyone has dirty little gimmicks that make it impossible for some characters to even do anything about it... so heres what happened and this event made me lead to the conclusion that this matchup can be a HUGE pain for NW something that didnt occour in the past (before patch)...

Sajam and everyone else let me know how you feel bout this and if you have any ideas of wth to do...

So with the patch, Ares was buffed, i mean at first his teleport buff and added teleport distances for me didnt seem like that big of a deal, i never really had that much of a problem with Ares anyway so i was pretty confident going into the match....
Match starts and obviously i go in with all the mixups and frametraps in my arsenal, only to behold that my opponent is just running away with teleports. Now im a pretty smart player, so i start figuring out what he is going for, everytime he teleports he gains meter, due to the nature of his new teleports always leaving him 1 to 2 dashes away from NW, and NW having a considerable recovery between dashes i calculate that as long as he is just teleporting away i cannot catch him (please note that this is an online environment so i have to take lag into consideration, wish doesnt mean the same cannot be accomplished offline)... now this leaves me with 2 options, either i start trying to outzone him, wish in retrospective is not a good idea... or ill try to fake out zooning to catch him off guard during a back teleport... it worked for a bit but obviously this is not scrubs im talking about, this guys are the best among the EU server so as smart as i am this guys are also...

after he caught up to my strategy, all shit broke lose... MB teleport is instant on reappearing, meaning NW doesnt have anything that can punish it, basicly you will have to take the "mixup" and after he does D1 into sword he is pretty much as safe as you can hope to be... long story short (not really this is a big text ) if i hit him even once with a D1 or a D12 i will mix the crap out of him but him doing his job as he should he just kept running from me all day long building meter zonning me out and doing instant teleports with me being unable to do a single thing about it...

Sorry for the long post, but let me know what you think could be done or if you experienced similar tactic against you guys

 

[Joker's Shoes]

Dedicated zoners still do really well against NW.

Especially characters who dominate ground zoning and have decent options for wing dings.

Hmm, doesn't bode well. Who are these characters? Still Deathstroke/Sinestro/Superman?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

In my book, of the zoners - Nightwing outright loses to:

Sinestro, Deathstroke, Raven, Hawkgirl, Frost, Black Adam, Cyborg.

 

[Rocket52]

So I was messing about with corner combos and i was wondering...

Is there any reason to use the combo that switches into excrima mid combo, as opposed to one that does similar damage in staff, and ends with staff spin to excrima?

For example:
staff to excrima:
j2, 2, nj2,d2~4~EF,d2~EF, 113

vs
staff:
j2, 2, nj2, 1,1,1,staff spin~4

 

[NightwingDayZero]

So I was messing about with corner combos and i was wondering...

Is there any reason to use the combo that switches into excrima mid combo, as opposed to one that does similar damage in staff, and ends with staff spin to excrima?

For example:
staff to excrima:
j2, 2, nj2,d2~4~EF,d2~EF, 113

vs
staff:
j2, 2, nj2, 1,1,1,staff spin~4

I know Mello and gpmoney are big fans of j2 2 b3 jb2 d2 4 df2 etc. etc. meterless combos in the corner. They have some great 113 safe jump tech among other things. I'm still studying their approach. They play quite a bit differently than myself and Sajam from what I've seen.

My gameplan is revolved around using meterless Escrima combos to get my opponent to the corner and forcing them to make a mistake by using staff's extra long footsie range. When I score a hit with staff in the corner, I am doing anywhere between 48-52% and no setup of any kind is really worth it to me outside of that because the threat of staff in the corner works for you in more ways than left/right/overhead/low can in so far as risk/reward is concerned.

When I have my opponent cornered, I'm more concerned with containing them than I am with mixing them up. So long as they're in the corner and you're at max poke range with staff - it's just a matter of time before they fuck up and you capitalize.

 

[gpmoney]

So I was messing about with corner combos and i was wondering...

Is there any reason to use the combo that switches into excrima mid combo, as opposed to one that does similar damage in staff, and ends with staff spin to excrima?

For example:
staff to excrima:
j2, 2, nj2,d2~4~EF,d2~EF, 113

vs
staff:
j2, 2, nj2, 1,1,1,staff spin~4

If I end any combo in staff spin I always go to escrima for more set ups like anti wake ups, wake up reversals, safe jumps, and crazy cross ups.

 

[gpmoney]

I know Mello and gpmoney are big fans of j2 2 b3 jb2 d2 4 df2 etc. etc. meterless combos in the corner. They have some great 113 safe jump tech among other things. I'm still studying their approach. They play quite a bit differently than myself and Sajam from what I've seen.

My gameplan is revolved around using meterless Escrima combos to get my opponent to the corner and forcing them to make a mistake by using staff's extra long footsie range. When I score a hit with staff in the corner, I am doing anywhere between 48-52% and no setup of any kind is really worth it to me outside of that because the threat of staff in the corner works for you in more ways than left/right/overhead/low can in so far as risk/reward is concerned.

When I have my opponent cornered, I'm more concerned with containing them than I am with mixing them up. So long as they're in the corner and you're at max poke range with staff - it's just a matter of time before they fuck up and you capitalize.

Honestly I just started using an approach. outside of my community I was used to playing scrubs so I just try to land the same set up/ combo over and over. My new approach is to abuse spark cancels and do a bunch of staff spins. I want to take as much chip as possibleand to lock people down because I hate people who press buttons lol

 

[AssassiN]

Honestly I just started using an approach. outside of my community I was used to playing scrubs so I just try to land the same set up/ combo over and over. My new approach is to abuse spark cancels and do a bunch of staff spins. I want to take as much chip as possibleand to lock people down because I hate people who press buttons lol

Something I learned a little while ago: if you play almost nothing but scrubs you'll pick up bad habbits.
I'm gonna try to only play people in my friends list and not ranked anymore, sometimes you'll play a good opponent(hi Mello) but mostly you'll play against scrubs.

 

[gpmoney]

Something I learned a little while ago: if you play almost nothing but scrubs you'll pick up bad habbits.
I'm gonna try to only play people in my friends list and not ranked anymore, sometimes you'll play a good opponent(hi Mello) but mostly you'll play against scrubs.

Thats why I stopped playing randoms lol

 

[TakeAChance]

I was playing sets against Tom Brady the last two nights. First night he was destroying me, second night he still got the best of me but I won A LOT more games (taking the lead in the series quite a bit early on until he pulled ahead).

After those sets, I went into ranked and went on 25 game win streak tears. Playing against scrubs, will make you do scrubby things. Playing against good opponents means that you have to be sure of everything you throw out. You can't just throw caution to the wind.

 

[XxM3LLOxX]

Something I learned a little while ago: if you play almost nothing but scrubs you'll pick up bad habbits.
I'm gonna try to only play people in my friends list and not ranked anymore, sometimes you'll play a good opponent(hi Mello) but mostly you'll play against scrubs.

AssassiN lol Hi! ^_^
NightwingDayZero I did notice me and gpmoney have different styles compared to you and Sajam.(cannot forget TakeAChance either!!) U wouldn't really notice it until u sat down and really saw the difference lol I find tht very awesome n unique for our community because it can help other dicks understand different mindsets, styles, and reasons behind their decisions.

 

[gpmoney]

AssassiN lol Hi! ^_^
NightwingDayZero I did notice me and gpmoney have different styles compared to you and Sajam.(cannot forget TakeAChance either!!) U wouldn't really notice it until u sat down and really saw the difference lol I find tht very awesome n unique for our community because it can help other dicks understand different mindsets, styles, and reasons behind their decisions.

Agreed. I have not played any other nightwings but Macro and XxM3LLOxX but I noticed mello likes to get in your face and force you to do something stupid lol. I have never been read so easily before until playing mello lol after watching other NW players and watching footage I realize that I was playing stupid. no strategy, no set ups, no reads lol. Id like to thank the NW community for the support and feedback lol

 

[TakeAChance]

We have one of the best character forums. I love the NW boards.

Oh, my fellow brethern. I got some real good shit coming your way. Just finishing testing. If you are Black Adam, Aquaman, Bane, Batman etc you are going to hate this lol

 

[TakeAChance]

Alright fully tested. Thread commencing. Get ready.