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Strategy Nightwing General Discussion (1.06 and on)

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
Hope NEC isnt like summer jam for you guys :\ pools where 7 hours late. I wana go to NEC but idk If CORN can do another 12 hour drive lol that was hell
 

14K

Warrior
Ok guys im here today to bring you a topic and please excuse the long post im about to type, but i believe this is of some importance, this can go for praticly any character, player but since im a NW main im here to talk to you guys since your my " NW family" please bare with me.

So what i want to point out and maybe change some points of view around here is this: "When is Muscle Memory an enemy and not a friend"

After seeing lot of high lvl play from all the NWs from our forum, this hit me, that i needed to post about it after i saw Sajam MMh vs DayzeroNW. Dayzero´s NW is great dont get me wrong, he can go toe to toe with anyone arround so, in here im not questioning his skill, but wha tim refering to is something that Sajam pointed out in the video that i think, taken into m ore depth can really open up another point of view in the NW pressure game, and this is what Sajam said ( after his MMh blocked multiple instances of a B2, Flipkick from Norcal NW... Sajam pointed out that his next and clear option to mix things up would have to be a stance change into a groundpound. All in All this is obviously the correct course of action, so lets continue) from what i can observe from the match, the stress that NW players feel that they have to move in might be so great that a players mind stops to realize its options and the muscle memory takes over, making the player just continue to do what your hands are more used to doing (muscle memory)...

so when is Muscle memory your enemy and not your friend... i believe this happens when while in the middle of the match your choices get clouded and your instincts kick in... in video games what is a players instinct. in my opinion (and please feel free to disagree as im looking for all kinds of points of view) a players instinct is the way your body takes over to react to certain situations in the form its most used to... again Muscle Memory...

Now we all know muscle memory is what helps us do our combos with ease and without pulling a vein LOL but outside this particular scenario, when rushin down and doing mixups to your opponent is muscle memory usefull???
Well i think its not and allow me to explain why with an example:
if you watch the match between NorcalNW and Sajam MMh (the last set they played) carefully. From a study standpoint and not entertainment, you can see (and Sajam pointed this out in a way) that if you condition your opponent to block B2 Flickkick, how many doors of alternative mixups do you open?? lets explore:

B2 Spark: if the spark hits witch assuming B2 was blocked it will most likely hit cause you conditioned your opponent to block flipkicks you get free pressure afterwards
B2 Stance cancels: i dont think i need to explore the results of this since i think its comun knowledge
B2 Spark cancel forward 112: this might be pretty unsafe but if your opponent is waiting for a flipkick he will, you know, wait for it to come out, meaning you will most likely have time to do this setup...
So after this has been put in to place and again Sajam pointed this out correctly, you can reset your metagame options, meaning you can safely go back to using B2 Flipkick...

This are just some of the examples to prove a point and the point is: if you condition your body to respond to a situation in 1 way, if during the match your "stress" lvl is high enouth that your muscle memory kicks in instead off thinking with your brain, your body will react the way it was conditioned to do in that exact situation, in this example a B2 Flipkick ( obviously diferent players have diferent habits) this leaves me to my conclusion, and sorry to repeat myself but in this case its important... A frustrated opponent is an opponent bound to make mistakes (i obviously got to the conclusion that frustration is not the only state of mind that leads to muscle/instinct memory to kick in and shutting down the brain and clear minded decisions) why? because muscle memory is not always your friend, this mistakes might not even come from bad judgements, but muscle memory can be viewed as a mistake creater cause if your opponent knows your next move he will be 1 2, 3 steps ahead of you... how can he be 3 moves ahead cause a clear minded opponent will memorise your habits (habits: muscle memory) and will punish you for said "mistakes" ...again muscle memory is not always your friend

I Hope this sparks something in someone and its helpfull to some of us, sorry for my messy typing XD looking forward to hearing your opinions.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Stance switches are where nightwing actually gets his "mixups". The more strings you can utilize them on, the better. Always keep your opponent guessing. It opens up the escrima spark cancels as well. A lot of Nightwings seem to be afraid to switch from staff to escrima. I love it. 1F1~4~Escrima spark cancel 112 33~4~mb staff spin 1~pound.

:)
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Stance switches are where nightwing actually gets his "mixups". The more strings you can utilize them on, the better. Always keep your opponent guessing. It opens up the escrima spark cancels as well. A lot of Nightwings seem to be afraid to switch from staff to escrima. I love it. 1F1~4~Escrima spark cancel 112 33~4~mb staff spin 1~pound.

:)
:mad:
 

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
I always mix up the stances. since you can d1 stance cancel into groundpund I throw it out to see if the openest will punish. If they punish I do staff spin instead cause its a smaller window.
 

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
I've been preaching it for forever, but ground spark dash cancels and making use of canceling between both stances well is what makes a good NW player. Without the ability to play comfortably in both stances at any moment you can't play NW well.
 

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
I'm still working on my escrima, its finally solid now and i feel comfortable now.
 

Rocket52

Noob
Can someone link me to the thread with frame traps and what not (or tell me a few)? I can't seem to find it.

I know of um:
the 33 loops
d12--> 33
d1 --> f213 (I can never get this, because it would cancel into EF)
112 --> 33
b2--> backdash-->b2

Thanks in advance
 

AssassiN

Warrior

After trying it out for myself, that doesn't work. Even if you input DBF you'll get EF...
I tried getting EF after a D1 and the only time I got EF is when I did it too early and it canceled my D1, so I'm guessing you are just doing it too early.
 

Rocket52

Noob
After trying it out for myself, that doesn't work. Even if you input DBF you'll get EF...
I tried getting EF after a D1 and the only time I got EF is when I did it too early and it canceled my D1, so I'm guessing you are just doing it too early.
Quite possible.
Being inherently afraid of being too slow ( I can only play online, no offline opportunites in a small city like mine), I tend to input buttons faster than i should.

It's what drops most of my spiderman combos in umvc3