New UMK3 Tier List? (update for 2012)

[DemoniChris]

Shang Tsung bottom tier? Certainly not in MKT

 

[Skylight1]

Shang Tsung bottom tier? Certainly not in MKT

But all the other player has to do is space and wait for until the Shang player to morph back into Shang... that's not a viable argument as to why he's not low tier in all of the 3 games.

 

[NinjaGrinder]

I got a good 50/50 set up with H. Smoke that works a lot of the time. Not gonna share it though haha.

Seriously? in 2012?

 

[NobilityV3]

Can someone give me a good reasoning why Liu Kang is above C.Sub?

 

[nwo]

Shang Tsung bottom tier? Certainly not in MKT

MKT has faster game play. I think if Shang Tsung could morph faster he could be top 10. This would be an interesting idea for a ROM hack wouldn't it.

 

[Juggs]

Can someone give me a good reasoning why Liu Kang is above C.Sub?

Liu Kang is better than C.Sub for a few reasons. However, he's not that much better. Kang has more options than C.Sub. He has 3 different projectiles that are all useful, on top of that, two other specials. He has probably one of the best roundhouses in the game, at least for anti airing. He's more versatile, where as C.Sub is generally a one trick pony.

 

[DemoniChris]

Can someone give me a good reasoning why Liu Kang is above C.Sub?

I'd say these characters are about on par with each other. You can really heckle people with the run jabs into ground freeze and do it all over again if your opponent isn't looking for it. Liu kang has some really nice punish potential and corner damage and C.Sub has one of the best relaunchers in the game. Liu Kangs hit boxes are a lot harder to hit for most of the cast as well.

 

[NobilityV3]

I'd say these characters are about on par with each other. You can really heckle people with the run jabs into ground freeze and do it all over again if your opponent isn't looking for it. Liu kang has some really nice punish potential and corner damage and C.Sub has one of the best relaunchers in the game. Liu Kangs hit boxes are a lot harder to hit for most of the cast as well.

C.Sub is a lot more versatile than just ground freezing. Whether your opponent is looking for it or not, you can mix it up with regular freeze if they are expecting a ground freeze. Or, if they're expecting both, and they're just sitting their awaiting the run-jab to stop it with a low kick...jumping over them, in which they will block, LATE jump kick (will push back opponent) into ground freeze.

Hard to explain, but you get the idea. The guy has tons of options.

 

[DemoniChris]

C.Sub is a lot more versatile than just ground freezing. Whether your opponent is looking for it or not, you can mix it up with regular freeze if they are expecting a ground freeze. Or, if they're expecting both, and they're just sitting their awaiting the run-jab to stop it with a low kick...jumping over them, in which they will block, LATE jump kick (will push back opponent) into ground freeze.

Hard to explain, but you get the idea. The guy has tons of options.

Of course I didn't cover everything. Freezing someone into a deep jumpkick into ground freeze is another great utility that he kept from mk2. His combo damage is nothing to laugh at either.

 

[NobilityV3]

Of course I didn't cover everything. Freezing someone into a deep jumpkick into ground freeze is another great utility that he kept from mk2. His combo damage is nothing to laugh at either.

I wasn't referring to that. Basically, instead of chaining a low punch into ground freeze when someone is blocking, you use a late jump kick and chain it into a ground freeze when someone is blocking. It works the same way. So, when an opponent is anticipating your low punch into ground freeze and uses low kicks to counter it, you can use the other method of jk into ground freeze.

 

[DemoniChris]

I wasn't referring to that. Basically, instead of chaining a low punch into ground freeze when someone is blocking, you use a late jump kick and chain it into a ground freeze when someone is blocking. It works the same way. So, when an opponent is anticipating your low punch into ground freeze and uses low kicks to counter it, you can use the other method of jk into ground freeze.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. That's pretty cool, didn't know that. I'll have to incorporate that into my game

 

[NobilityV3]

Ahh, I see what you're saying. That's pretty cool, didn't know that. I'll have to incorporate that into my game

I'm only the C.Sub master.

You're welcome.

But anyway, before all these things I found out and before I picked up C.Sub, I would've agreed that Liu Kang was better. But the guy has so many options it's ridiculous, and now I believe he deserves a better spot on the list, specifically above Kang.

 

[DemoniChris]

I'm only the C.Sub master.

You're welcome.

But anyway, before all these things I found out and before I picked up C.Sub, I would've agreed that Liu Kang was better. But the guy has so many options it's ridiculous, and now I believe he deserves a better spot on the list, specifically above Kang.

He definitely has some unused potential. Not sure if he makes it into top 15 but I'd say top 18 for sure.

 

[Pikachu]

C.sub

 

[Killmaim420]

Well with Sonya you don't need to do that. Because she ends her combos with a leg grab, and you rush in before they get up anyway, so you're basically in the same position just you've done more damage. The only time not finishing would be to your advantage is based on spacing and positioning.

I'm not talkin about after you land her combo i'm talking about on block, stopping her 5 hit combo after the 4th hit and throwing out a sweep/some other mix up. I know what you mean about the full combo though. I rarely go for a deep jk then ending the combo instead of going for a leg grab.

Though lately with her i have been doing a deep jk into a lk which does a little bit more damage than her leg grab. Still am not positive about every character that works on though i'm still working on it. The lk thing probably puts you in a worse position than the leg grab in some ways though.

 

[NobilityV3]

C.sub

Lol this would never happen against good players. You should be ashamed if it has.

Pretty much this tactic + baiting + late jk to ground freeze and it makes him a viable option of being above Liu Kang.

 

[Pikachu]

@noobilityV3, cool story bro

 

[NobilityV3]

@noobilityV3, cool story bro

 

[RollTide8569]

Seriously? in 2012?

Yes! Really! In 2012!!! lol

I guess I wasn't on the same page with Remz about breaking combos. I was talking about doing juggles and leaving the last hit off to put you right back on top of them jabbing their faces.

Ok, I guess I'll share my set up. H. Smoke -----> 2 Hit Pop Up, JK, TP, Spear, 3 Hit Pop Up, then walk in (don't run) and just get real lazy and do LP HP (I think the HP whiffs but that's ok) and keep walking.....now 50/50 time. If they try to attack, you have the advantage and can get another pop up. If they block, just jab the piss out of them.

You could do that with anybody like do a deep JK to end a combo and be right back on top of them.

 

[DemoniChris]

Yes! Really! In 2012!!! lol

I guess I wasn't on the same page with Remz about breaking combos. I was talking about doing juggles and leaving the last hit off to put you right back on top of them jabbing their faces.

Ok, I guess I'll share my set up. H. Smoke -----> 2 Hit Pop Up, JK, TP, Spear, 3 Hit Pop Up, then walk in (don't run) and just get real lazy and do LP HP (I think the HP whiffs but that's ok) and keep walking.....now 50/50 time. If they try to attack, you have the advantage and can get another pop up. If they block, just jab the piss out of them.

You could do that with anybody like do a deep JK to end a combo and be right back on top of them.

That's just droppin a huge portion of damage (probably 20% with the jk airthrow) to try to get lucky with mindgames. I'm sure it would be good to throw in every so often but I wouldn't risk that much damage. What I usually do is deep JK airthrow so that the opponent stays as close to me as possible, then I run in with the run jabs.

 

[NobilityV3]

That's just droppin a huge portion of damage (probably 20% with the jk airthrow) to try to get lucky with mindgames. I'm sure it would be good to throw in every so often but I wouldn't risk that much damage. What I usually do is deep JK airthrow so that the opponent stays as close to me as possible, then I run in with the run jabs.

I also do a similar thing where I ground freeze opponents and follow up with a few lp's into another ground freeze loop. Works about 40% of the time but is very effective when it does. I hardly ever risk it though, going for the regular BnB, which is a lot of damage anyway (44%).

 

[Killmaim420]

Lol this would never happen against good players. You should be ashamed if it has.

Pretty much this tactic + baiting + late jk to ground freeze and it makes him a viable option of being above Liu Kang.

Maybe. The main problem with C.sub is his tactics will only work for so long. People catch on to what you're going to do with him and learn to play around it and punish you for your tactics. That is why he is kind of stuck as a low tier character.

I'd agree with you that he is at around the same level as liu kang. He has much better damage than liu kang, and more balanced normals imo, but i feel liu is just more versatile than c.sub. He's less of a one trick pony.

 

[Lex]

Yes! Really! In 2012!!! lol

I guess I wasn't on the same page with Remz about breaking combos. I was talking about doing juggles and leaving the last hit off to put you right back on top of them jabbing their faces.

Ok, I guess I'll share my set up. H. Smoke -----> 2 Hit Pop Up, JK, TP, Spear, 3 Hit Pop Up, then walk in (don't run) and just get real lazy and do LP HP (I think the HP whiffs but that's ok) and keep walking.....now 50/50 time. If they try to attack, you have the advantage and can get another pop up. If they block, just jab the piss out of them.

You could do that with anybody like do a deep JK to end a combo and be right back on top of them.

1998

 

[NinjaGrinder]

Though lately with her i have been doing a deep jk into a lk which does a little bit more damage than her leg grab. Still am not positive about every character that works on though i'm still working on it. The lk thing probably puts you in a worse position than the leg grab in some ways though.

I like to end the pop up with lk instead of leg grab as well. Specially when they're getting cornered. A leg grab after all those hits its not worth it IMO.

Yes! Really! In 2012!!! lol

Ok, I guess I'll share my set up. H. Smoke -----> 2 Hit Pop Up, JK, TP, Spear, 3 Hit Pop Up, then walk in (don't run) and just get real lazy and do LP HP (I think the HP whiffs but that's ok) and keep walking.....now 50/50 time. If they try to attack, you have the advantage and can get another pop up. If they block, just jab the piss out of them.

You could do that with anybody like do a deep JK to end a combo and be right back on top of them.

I was talking about keeping it for yourself, not that it couldn't exist. Why would you keep a tactic for yourself in 2012? jeje

Nice tactic, I've been doing something similar with kabal lately. I understand if someone (or everyone) thinks a good player won't fall for it, or that you can do it only a few times, but it has worked for me, in tournaments here.

After a spin and pop up combo, I delay the JK instead or doing it right away to do the BnB (jk into air fireball) and then I jump again and mix it up: cross up throw/knee starter into pop up combo/spin

The spin works best when they're expecting you to throw or go for a knee jaja just land on top of them and go for the spin. I know, it has to be a good read.

 

[Juggs]

Kinda off-topic, but the instant air projectiles in this game aren't that hard to do with a PS2 d-pad. I've been trying to do it with an analog and I never understood how to do it. With a PS2 pad though, it's so much easier. No wonder players like REO and NoDoubt can do that shit so easily.