Tech New Ermac vortex technology

[GoodLifeGodLike]

Zaf what's the ETA on this Ermac video you're releasing?

Also what part of Montreal are you at? I'm the west island

 

[Krayzie]

this is safe jump stuff not a vortex.

On that note, its not "Safe Jump" stuff, its "Stagger" stuff... lol

But seriously, he does have different types of Vortex setups. and I'll be using them at SCR if not NEC.

This does not just involve B2 into teleport... I wish people would stop seeing Ermac in Black and White... lol

Wats the difference? This just staggers while scorp actually can continue combos?

Here's an example man. Sorry that its not MK9, but I will try and make a video tutorial later on for Ermac. I'm really doing my best to study the character even further from what I have so far.

 

[smokey]

Not sure if "Vortex" is the word to be used for alot of these setups that keep popping up. The first "Vortex" i heard was the akuma stuff, and that uses untechable knockdowns coupled with crossups and mixups to lock peoples wakeup game out, and can be looped into itself with combos into untechable knockdowns.

Cant say that MK9 can really say it has a vortex game thats hugely viable for any character, mainly because of wake-up attacks being invincible, also blocking is independant from the direction you're facing, so ambiguous crossup setups hold no value, because you cant block the wrong way.

I guess this uses a similar theory with blockstun and then mixups, but its not a vortex by description, just creating a safe window of which to use mix-ups.

Scorpions "vortex" is a bit more viable because he can pick people up from the ground with it into combos, and then loop back to itself.

I might be missing the point completely so if i am, please put me right!

 

[Krayzie]

Not sure if "Vortex" is the word to be used for alot of these setups that keep popping up. The first "Vortex" i heard was the akuma stuff, and that uses untechable knockdowns coupled with crossups and mixups to lock peoples wakeup game out, and can be looped into itself with combos into untechable knockdowns.

Cant say that MK9 can really say it has a vortex game thats hugely viable for any character, mainly because of wake-up attacks being invincible, also blocking is independant from the direction you're facing, so ambiguous crossup setups hold no value, because you cant block the wrong way.

I guess this uses a similar theory with blockstun and then mixups, but its not a vortex by description, just creating a safe window of which to use mix-ups.

Scorpions "vortex" is a bit more viable because he can pick people up from the ground with it into combos, and then loop back to itself.

I might be missing the point completely so if i am, please put me right!

I agree with you about the invincible wake ups, so I see them much more of a bait and punish mix-up. But very similar and its basically the same goal to put them in the same position. I believe a Vortex varies from game to game because the mechanics are very different.

Here is an example. People only see B2 charge into a teleport, but if you're looking for untechable knockdowns, you are usually trying to be at advantage of the opponent you are knocking down for mix ups, etc. Basically as a Cyber Sub player would from a slide as he jumps over a knocked down Ermac.

Now, even though you can tech out of B2 B1 teleport, or B2 1 teleport(Both putting the opponent in different positions), you are right in front of them with the advantage to mix up, which completely eliminates the point of the tech roll to begin with. And of course, we still do have the F4 reset shenanigans, and the fact that the B2 charge can become unblockable. A jump over that gives you some advantage on block, etc.

 

[smokey]

I understand how this works and can be a great part of ermacs play, i just cant see it being reliable like say akumas is. If you knock them down with an untechable you get a free mixup, and can loop it, making it extremely useful.

with ermac, its more of a mental mix up than a "high/low" mix up. And ermac cant start combos from lows or mids, so without meaning to shoot you down, because this is good stuff, but is the only threat here the B2 being fully charged and unblockable, or is the threat of being hit with shoddy mixups or a throw enough to want to risk falling into your setups and eating the combo? Is there a legitimate risk to ermac here that you need to be wary of when using this? stuff like reptile dash/KL spin punishing you, or is it safe?

 

[Ruuku1012]

I understand how this works and can be a great part of ermacs play, i just cant see it being reliable like say akumas is. If you knock them down with an untechable you get a free mixup, and can loop it, making it extremely useful.

with ermac, its more of a mental mix up than a "high/low" mix up. And ermac cant start combos from lows or mids, so without meaning to shoot you down, because this is good stuff, but is the only threat here the B2 being fully charged and unblockable, or is the threat of being hit with shoddy mixups or a throw enough to want to risk falling into your setups and eating the combo? Is there a legitimate risk to ermac here that you need to be wary of when using this? stuff like reptile dash/KL spin punishing you, or is it safe?

In terms of effectiveness, how is a block-able/unblock-able mix up much different than a mid/low mix up? And I'm not even considering the fact that b2 can be canceled and some mid/low mix ups fuzzy guarded when asking this.

 

[Krayzie]

I understand how this works and can be a great part of ermacs play, i just cant see it being reliable like say akumas is. If you knock them down with an untechable you get a free mixup, and can loop it, making it extremely useful.

with ermac, its more of a mental mix up than a "high/low" mix up. And ermac cant start combos from lows or mids, so without meaning to shoot you down, because this is good stuff, but is the only threat here the B2 being fully charged and unblockable, or is the threat of being hit with shoddy mixups or a throw enough to want to risk falling into your setups and eating the combo? Is there a legitimate risk to ermac here that you need to be wary of when using this? stuff like reptile dash/KL spin punishing you, or is it safe?

Oh its legitimate enough, believe me. I've already used it in a tournament setting with a lot of competition, and I don't even feel like I'm at 100% with him yet considering I stopped using him for a while to train with Cyrax.

The fact that you can cancel out the charge makes it pretty safe, and the high low mix up game might not go into a full combo on its own, but is the reason for the opponents decision to keep holding block jump back or jump over. My entire game while using this is to keep the opponent next to me and create a comeback factor when needed(this is something I've talked about for a while) Ironically, I used it in the tournament as a comeback factor, and it worked as effective as I knew it would. Anyhow, if an opponent jumps over, you can dash back and punish with 2, 22 lift, if they jump back you can force push or dash lift into another loop.

Also, the F4 reset is a low, and U4 is an overhead, which keeps your opponent literally in front of you. And both of these can be used multiple times with the same set up I mention. Say for example you use B2 B1 teleport, you end up right infront of the opponent and your options are, "Grab" "F4" "U4" "B2 feint" "B2 lv1 charge" "B2 lv2 charge" etc.

 

[zaf]

GoodLifeGodLike, and for anyone else waiting for my video. I am now releasing multiple shorter videos specific to their techs or information. I will make and get a thread stickied for this. Anyone can send me a PM with something worth while to record and ill make a video of this and add it to my thread. This will make it easier for people to see the video for exactly what they want to learn and so we can keep updating the the thread and add more to it.

~~

I'm in agreement with everything krazyie says. Stagger is a huge part of this giving you some advantage and scare tactics to this.
Most people try to avoid the unblockable by doing this they set themselves up for punishment.

Krazyie, this statement you have here. I have footage of this, just my camera sucks. Also, do you play on stick or pad?

"Anyhow, if an opponent jumps over, you can dash back and punish with 2, 22 lift, if they jump back you can force push or dash lift into another loop. "

Everyone just underlooks this because krazyie is the only ermac doing this in tournaments. I cant wait till people are like, "nerf ermac" lol


Also smokey, i do see this as being reliable. Because like krazyie mentions, the comeback factor is huge. You can have your opponent in a tight situation and with all the conditioning done on them you can use so many options to keep them locked down. With them low on health you can take the opportunity to land a high damaging combo instead to end it. you can get 33% just off a lift.

 

[Ruuku1012]

b2 also sets up completely unbreakable combos.

Everyone just underlooks this because krazyie is the only ermac doing this in tournaments. I cant wait till people are like, "nerf ermac" lol

This x1000

 

[Krayzie]

Just as an update, you don't need 2, 22 lift anymore. You can uppercut 100% for 40% damage.

More updates later, I have to leave soon.

 

[zaf]

cool, ill make a video of the uppercut AA. Makes more sense to go for an uppercut anyways, don't know why i missed that >_>.

Krazyie do you mind just pm-ing me some of the other set ups you have? I know you want to save it for nec, but id like to test this as well. Do you play on pad or stick?

 

[KamikazeJD]

[MENTION=3]Krayzie[/MENTION] you busy man? Want to get a couple sets in?

 

[Krayzie]

cool, ill make a video of the uppercut AA. Makes more sense to go for an uppercut anyways, don't know why i missed that >_>.

Krazyie do you mind just pm-ing me some of the other set ups you have? I know you want to save it for nec, but id like to test this as well. Do you play on pad or stick?

I use pad for MK.

[MENTION=3]Krayzie[/MENTION] you busy man? Want to get a couple sets in?

Ah, sorry man. I was having offline sessions.

 

[Primal Raptor]

actually you stated that the only safe move standing with teleport is b2. actually 1,2 teleport is safe while standing

 

[Metzos]

Good stuff Krayzie glad to see you come back to your psychic red senses I m really eager to see what else you discovered with Ermac. Sorry for not being very active these days everyone but i got some real life issues.


P.S : I m gonna start the Ermac MU chart next week.

 

[Primal Raptor]

i just seriously strted using ermac again, and i noticed that after a 2,2 people like to jump in, so i back up a little, uppercut, and get an easy bnb ex 47% damage combo every time i have meter. i also noticed tht if you want to get in on an AA character and you cant dash block, jumping from just at the edge of the ji distance, you can airblast and be safe if it hits and have pressure, and be able to recover fast enough for a trade of frames if its blocked. i havent fully tested wen its blocked so it may be just the ignorance of the enemy, but alot of really good players cant counter it. i guess its lik csz's dive kick punish, if ur too high it can be but if ur not its even recovery for both.

 

[VOR]

i totally get how the vortex works and all, but B2-B1-lift is such a huge combo starter that can easily get 40+ percent. i kinda like the idea of using 1-2-tele more than b2 tele.

 

[STORMS]

i totally get how the vortex works and all, but B2-B1-lift is such a huge combo starter that can easily get 40+ percent. i kinda like the idea of using 1-2-tele more than b2 tele.

that's the beauty though... you have options and you can get them guessing.

 

[Krayzie]

The Vortex was so yesterday...

Move on, I have new shit.

NEC

 

[KamikazeJD]

Lmao.. Dont be like cd n them.. I dont want to shake my head at this bro..

 

[Creepy00]

So has anyone have success with adding b2 into your Ermac game?

 

[GamerBlake90]

I just now saw this tech and showed it to a friend. We're both very pleased. Great find!

 

[charlieonline]

Just like metzos, can you pm me the details krazyie. ill help test and lab some stuff at the same time and we can all add our stuff collectively.

phil just to touch on what krazyie was saying. b2 feints open people up and allow you to condition your opponent.
when playing footises you can even d4, dash in and b2 feint to react to whatever the opponent does. you set the pace when you use b2. If the common reaction to b2 now is GTFO, then you know you can counter with an AA into lift or just a naked lift. After the lift end your combos into reset and keep the b2 feints going.

I would say that yes i would keep characters like cage, jax and kabal locked down in this as well. IF you are doing everything right they want to get out of this asap. You can get them to make a bad mistake and they lose their meter, or make them whiff a super armor move and in turn lose meter again. however with these characters you really need to pay attention to their meter and health.

the vortex guarantees that your opponent is put in a pressure situation where b2 benefits because of stagger. with proper reads and conditioning i see this very hard to escape down the line once some of us ermac players really get the hang of this.

I was at a local tourney playing this weekend and using a lot of b2 feints and resets together and my god i wish this was something i did on release lol. I remember playing a quan who would only really get damage in on me when he had meter, so with all the resets and b2 feints and charged b2s i landed he had to use all his meter to breaker or eat all my retarded damage. Because of this i never had to worry about my own life and keep meter for xray lol

EDIT: Just so people remember. YOU CAN jump out of b2 to cancel this as well. Do not forget this as an option.

You mean you can just jump to cancel it instead of doing ff or bb?

 

[charlieonline]

I agree with you about the invincible wake ups, so I see them much more of a bait and punish mix-up. But very similar and its basically the same goal to put them in the same position. I believe a Vortex varies from game to game because the mechanics are very different.

Here is an example. People only see B2 charge into a teleport, but if you're looking for untechable knockdowns, you are usually trying to be at advantage of the opponent you are knocking down for mix ups, etc. Basically as a Cyber Sub player would from a slide as he jumps over a knocked down Ermac.

Now, even though you can tech out of B2 B1 teleport, or B2 1 teleport(Both putting the opponent in different positions), you are right in front of them with the advantage to mix up, which completely eliminates the point of the tech roll to begin with. And of course, we still do have the F4 reset shenanigans, and the fact that the B2 charge can become unblockable. A jump over that gives you some advantage on block, etc.

So are you saying a b2 hit into teleport causes more stagger then a regular teleport?

Secondly, how is this better then a b2 b1 lift into something that resets into f4 and then another b2. Why the teleport after b2 and not a combo into f4 reset?

 

[zaf]

yes just jump away or toward your opponent to cancel as well.

After there is a teleport hit, the stagger is nuts and it gives a lot of time to charge the b2.
It is not better then doing b2 b1 lift, its just another option