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New Era Podcast

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Well, your claim was that the patch was a failure because it “shows no intention of deviating from this meta.
Read the entire paragraph and the full context of my claim. The fact that you apparently have a disdain for reading is not my problem.

You have criticized people like me and Tom for engaging in theatrics and unfairly criticizing the game. However, when we offer constructive criticism and claims, you turn a blind eye.
 

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
I played Mortal Kombat X, and while playing the game did anything but complement my gameplay style, the high powerful levels, the ever-changing top tier characters, and the exceptional online gameplay captivated my interest for a long time.

Although I sympathize with your rush down argument, Mortal Kombat 1's primary problem is that the game and the meta within the game are boring. For a significant portion of the roster, the strategy is to perform a special move, whether to extend a string or to approach an opponent, and follow up with a kameo attack. Rinse and repeat. If you were a new player and you watched a tournament match, you would come to the conclusion that Kung Lao only has low hat and that Stryker only has grenades as kameo attacks, respectively. Even a more complex kameo character like Tremor, who has access to three stances and multiple kameo attacks, is essentially chosen to perform two functions, the ambush ground pound and the increased health value, the latter being an uncontrolled variable.

I consider the most recent patch a failure because the developers have shown no intention of deviating from this monotonous meta. In fact, they are making the game more boring by nerfing the top tier characters as well as top tier kameos. The game would have been much better served with the addition of new gameplay elements, such as the universal push block mechanic that many people thought was going to be implemented.. Playing or watching buffed Quan Chi versus pre-patch Johnny Cage would have been fun and something different in a Mortal Kombat 1 with a hypothetical push block mechanic.
I agree with alot of the points in this post and am of the sentiment that characters need more utility on their own(rain and reptile changes are a perfect example of this but more is needed and for all of the cast),with also kamoes being let a bit more loose,but in the case for tremor,there is a particular synergy he has with shao kahn to the levels almost no other character kameo do.

With shao kahn you get to use almost the entire kit of tremor and it is all optimal.
With shao its not earthquake or nothing.
While you do use earthquake to combo after hit grabs and command grab as well as meterless up knee combos(also allowing a armored launcher in case of a armor through on wake up or out of gaps),you also use both metallic ball variations to do armor breaking HTB setup resets totaling to 75% damage
Low ball can be used to cover both the delayed and regular wake up timings giving plus frames and a free 50/50 launch attempt.
metallic ball can also be used for a amored launcher from up knee as well.

Then there is the combo routes that the up rock punch enables dealing 42%+ damage for a bar,meterless f2 launch with mettalic ball,crystslline armor setups though not really needed and worth it maybe when the enemy is low health and you want to brute force pressure/force a panic reaction.

It is in my oponion one of the most fun teams in the game and to be frank i think pretty strong,interesting that the pros don use it,you are essentially a 1200 hp fortress that deletes health bars with high damage combos and htbs or 50/50 set ups into 55-75% damage range,depending on the launch type.

The issue it does have and you mentioned in your post,that is more so a game design issue and not a tremor issue,is the opportunity cost of the kameo system,though it doesnt feel as bad with shao because there is almost no wrong choice you just take what presents it self to you,and all of the tools bring great reward and all use the ambush function of tremor so the whole bar is spent.
 

rifraf

Apprentice
For a significant portion of the roster, the [optimal] strategy is to perform a special move, whether to extend a string or to approach an opponent, and follow up with a kameo attack.
First, fixed it for you.
Second, yes, not all characters are created equally. That's the unfortunate reality of fighting games.
Third, that's happening largely because NRS designed themselves in a corner with assists like Goro punch, Stryker nades, Kano ball, Cyrax horizontal heli, and Kung Lao low hat. They all do exactly the same thing and don't seem to be very healthy for the game overall since no matter how powerful a character is, they still choose to use those boring kameo moves because more often than not they end up being optimal.
Lastly, there's an apparent lack of execution difficulty on some characters and especially on some of the most powerful setplays that NRS is showing to target in the last 2 patches. Stormcell got nerfed, Quan Chi got new moves and got to freely use his portals, while Reptile and Rain got cancel moves.

I'll say, it definitely sucks if your main character sucks and you have to use lame strats to compete. But that doesn't mean the game is boring just because your character sucks :laughing:
 
I agree with m2dave. Besides some extreme examples, nerfs of any kind just bring us close to the same mundane crap we all hated so much from mk11. What so many of you fail to see is that the answer to dealing with a strong tactic is not nerfing that said tactic but to give other characters better tools to fight them. Push block would have be an amazing addition that would have balanced kenshi and raiden without having to nerf them.


This game already barely has a slightly higher base power level than mk11. You keep chopping down these top tiers at the rate we’re going and we’ll get to mk11.

Last thing is that buffing doesn’t need to be as over complicated as giving complete new move set to characters. It could be as simple as giving better frame data to existing move sets..
 

rifraf

Apprentice
Last thing is that buffing doesn’t need to be as over complicated as giving complete new move set to characters. It could be as simple as giving better frame data to existing move sets..
Tbh, it's complicated. Personally, I'm happy NRS is attempting to fix character issues the correct way. Rain seems cracked right now in a way just tuning numbers wouldn't cut. The same with Quan Chi.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Strange, because Ermac doesn’t play like this at all.
Ermac is the reason why I've picked this game back up after months of sitting out. The main interesting thing for me was getting a classic character back who plays in a very unique strong way with both his toolkit and the Kameo system. Like Ermac can play the game in multiple ways, while he also can use a kameo like Janet or Scorpion for high damage, can use Darius or Frost for setplay setups, can use Tremor for any time mid screen hard-to-blocks, etc. This is what I like a lot and Ermac feels like a high point of what the entire game should play like.

To Dave's point I agree that this is where I think we need to see future updates go. The more characters that play like Ermac, the better the overall gameplay will be for all of us. Toolkits built strong enough to where it would make sense to use the majority of kameos based on MUs because the characters themselves are either strong enough or unique enough is the path, and I'd go one step farther and buff kameos more so we don't see some kameos being specifically used for one move. For example, coming back to the game no lie I legitimately forgot what Stryker did other than grenades lolol. I couldn't remember and had to go to practice mode to jog my memory. That shouldn't be the case and I think they have the potential to maximize this game if they play it right.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
The problem I feel with most of the game is the super rushdown. This becomes a catch 22 with legacy gameplay. Also, it seems odd the game with more power has way less options than the previous games. One would think they would give legacy at least all of those options. It isn't good when wifi played on PS4 MK11 from way back in 2019. I see little difference in online play with wifi and on direct connect. They even once said in an MKX kombat kast back in the day to switch from wifi to wired to improve the online play. Anyway .... also us older people who paid the games at 12 have trouble with controllers with early arthritis and the blood pressure. Younger people can handle it. For whatever reason in games in general we are in a transition period. But one thing is clear IMO....there really doesn't seem to be one community to go to get information no matter how you play or give feedback. Youtube, Reddit, Twitch/Streaming, Twitter, it's all exhausting and thus overload.

It's almost like music. Now it's here today and gone tomorrow. and Expensive concerts. and we need a Fighters Megamix not a new Virtua Fighter. or just make this new Virtua Fighter a Fighters Megamix. But they won't. lol @CY MasterHavik @M2Dave
My hands are good in shape though. :) I'm only 30.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
The issue it does have and you mentioned in your post,that is more so a game design issue and not a tremor issue,is the opportunity cost of the kameo system,though it doesnt feel as bad with shao because there is almost no wrong choice you just take what presents it self to you,and all of the tools bring great reward and all use the ambush function of tremor so the whole bar is spent.
I am not familiar with Shao/Tremor. I was speaking from the perspective of Reiko/Tremor, who is my main team. The ability to launch from Reiko's command grab is powerful. Consequently, most of the kameo meter is spent on the ambush ground pound. The other moves, by contrast, are rarely used. While they are not useless, they are situational.
 

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
I am not familiar with Shao/Tremor. I was speaking from the perspective of Reiko/Tremor, who is my main team. The ability to launch from Reiko's command grab is powerful. Consequently, most of the kameo meter is spent on the ambush ground pound. The other moves, by contrast, are rarely used. While they are not useless, they are situational.
Yeah for reiko and other characters that use tremor its pretty much as you described,and definetly showcases the flaws of the kameo systme(in my main team shang/goro i pretty much only use up punch for everything,from combos,zoning enhancments,and fullscreen lockdown from low skull,to block pressure),but yeah for tremor-shao you get to be really creative in the way to use tremor,though ofc the hard to blockables overshadow the other uses a bit.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Even a more complex kameo character like Tremor, who has access to three stances and multiple kameo attacks, is essentially chosen to perform two functions, the ambush ground pound and the increased health value, the latter being an uncontrolled variable.
Not meant as a counter-point or anything, more as an FYI - this is a really cool COTR set where the Rain player showcases lots of really interesting uses for Tremor:

 

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
@M2Dave i would love to hear your thoughts about Combo Breaker entrants on the next podcast episode.

Some people are saying the numbers are good. While some people aren’t blaming the game, but are blaming people who openly criticize the game for ruining it for everyone else.




In his newest video, Tom says MK1 is the issue. However, I think the decline began in MK11 and carried over into this game.

Also I don’t think a person can truly influence another person into disliking a game that they enjoy.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Also I don’t think a person can truly influence another person into disliking a game that they enjoy.
I think that negativity definitely has an effect on the community. When MenaRD called Street Fighter 6 scrubby and when Arslan Ash and Knee insinuated that defense in Tekken 8 is irrelevant, players in the respective communities discussed these topics seriously and lengthily. Whether you were subscribed to any FGC content creators or not, your YouTube feed would fill with these topics that rarely portrayed the game in a positive manner. I understand how new players and/or players who are thinking about traveling to a tournament could be discouraged by the talking points.

Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8 aside, the question remains, does Mortal Kombat 1 deserve the criticism? Unless you absolutely love the game to the extent that no one person will convince you to believe otherwise as you stated, I would confidently say that the majority of players would agree that Mortal Kombat 1 deserves the criticism. To be fair to NRS, the developers have been listening and working diligently to fix issues, including specific complaints about the meta. Adding new moves to characters is an admirable balancing decision, particularly because the process is probably expensive and demanding on QA.

Nonetheless, whether you perceive the game or the community to be the root of all problems, the damage has already been done. Many people who stopped playing this game are never coming back, which is reflected in the low tournament turnout at Combo Breaker. I am personally not very motivated to play, but I do enjoy watching my favorite players (i.e., Bandinoz and Rewind).
 

rifraf

Apprentice
Whether you were subscribed to any FGC content creators or not, your YouTube feed would fill with these topics that rarely portrayed the game in a positive manner.
Ah, hopefully you can at the very least understand why I, rightfully so, shat on MikeHollow so much in the past. Where is that pos now? Exactly, nowhere.
 

rifraf

Apprentice
@M2Dave You call TheMainMan a sensationalist content creator, and at the same sentence you say how unfair people have been treating MikeHollow is straight up hypocritical. The guy has done literally nothing but wallow in toxic sensationalism for a living, like a pig in the mud. 95% of his content is textbook sensationalism, yet there are people like yourself defending and supporting this person.

I'm genuinely disappointed.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
@M2Dave You call TheMainMan a sensationalist content creator, and at the same sentence you say how unfair people have been treating MikeHollow is straight up hypocritical. The guy has done literally nothing but wallow in toxic sensationalism for a living, like a pig in the mud. 95% of his content is textbook sensationalism, yet there are people like yourself defending and supporting this person.

I'm genuinely disappointed.
I have watched most of Mike Hollow's videos. Name one that even remotely compares to...


Mike cites facts and arrives to certain conclusions, with which I sometimes disagree.

MainManSwe, on the other hand, often engages in nothing but sensationalism and clickbait. On the occasions when he does not, the videos are well-done and informative.
 

rifraf

Apprentice
Name one that even remotely compares to...
I can name a few actually.






Clickbait? Check, Sensationalism? Massive Check
I can honestly go on and on but I think I proved my point.

Mike cites facts
Really?? Are we baptizing opinions to facts now? Unreal. Do you want me to play the same game you're playing? Alright, let me give you an example.

"MainMan is saying Tekken devs don't want us to play Tekken anymore is a FACT and he demonstrated that in the video you posted. 96K views, 4K upvotes, and merely 73 downvotes don't lie and prove my point."

That's EXACTLY you on MikeHollow's content because you happen to agree with him on some of his points and you FEEL what he says are facts when in reality are just sensationalist opinions.

Ps. That Helldivers 2 splash art though :rolleyes: "Democracy Compromised" :laughing:
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Really?? Are we baptizing opinions to facts now? Unreal. Do you want me to play the same game you're playing? Alright, let me give you an example.

"MainMan is saying Tekken devs don't want us to play Tekken anymore is a FACT and he demonstrated that in the video you posted. 96K views, 4K upvotes, and merely 73 downvotes don't lie and prove my point."

That's EXACTLY you on MikeHollow's content because you happen to agree with him on some of his points and you FEEL what he says are facts when in reality are just sensationalist opinions.
I am not certain what your irrational vendetta against Mike Hollow is based on. Nonetheless, while he is sometimes definitely wrong about Tekken 8, he hardly expresses his opinions in a manner that I would label "sensationalist". Unlike MainManSwe, Mike does not dedicate entire videos raging about characters and/or their moves. I actually disagree with half of what Mike says about Tekken 8, but I doubt that you are interested in a nuanced discussion as much as you are interested in hurling insults at Mike every possible opportunity. Of course, you are entitled to do whatever you like, but your actions are baseless and boring, so I do not have much less to say about this topic.
 

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Tom says he’s going to move on from MK after his next few videos, which I’m happy to see.


Scar says he’s retiring from MK


Perfect Legend says he’s done with MK for the foreseeable future:

Chris G says we need to accept that NRS games are casual games and stop making a big deal about its competitive performance:


Xombat shares his thoughts on things:



Im happy people are moving on from the game if they’re not enjoying it. There are some good titles and updates coming out next year.
 
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Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
Also it’s crazy this thread isn’t allowed to be on the front page. The lengths gone to defend this game now include censorship.
21754

EDIT: and if you're talking about the big splashes at the bottom, this thread hasn't been posted in for almost two months and originally started in February before the ownership swap which is when the front page big post splashes started getting lively again. Additionally, there's literally a critique of MK1 right fucking there with the "Does extra complexity..." thread.
 
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Son ov Timett

Bork, No Jin
The game is 11 months old, hence it's in its 2nd EVO year.

Don't mind Third Strike which is in its 25th year as a comparititive talking point. This game rules mates, and any dissatisfaction solely lies on WB. The Warrior's Shrine is on its way, S2 DLC is on its way, Pro Komp money is on its way, Actual Matchmaking Rooms are on their way, a viable training mode with matchmaking is on its way.

NRS is cooking!
 

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
View attachment 21754

EDIT: and if you're talking about the big splashes at the bottom, this thread hasn't been posted in for almost two months and originally started in February before the ownership swap which is when the front page big post splashes started getting lively again. Additionally, there's literally a critique of MK1 right fucking there with the "Does extra complexity..." thread.
For some reason, I can’t see it on the front page when I’m logged in, but I can on an incognito tab. I deleted the post because it may be something unintentional. My apologies.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I love this thread.

Dave and Tom are two of the last bastions of true journalistic integrity left standing as it pertains to Mortal Kombat, and in my oldhead personal opinion, have been more interesting and relatable in relation to the game I've loved for 30 years than the current incarnation of that game itself during its' lifespan.

This game should have been Injustice 3.

#FireTheKombatKast
 

rifraf

Apprentice
View attachment 21754

EDIT: and if you're talking about the big splashes at the bottom, this thread hasn't been posted in for almost two months and originally started in February before the ownership swap which is when the front page big post splashes started getting lively again. Additionally, there's literally a critique of MK1 right fucking there with the "Does extra complexity..." thread.
He can't see thread because he put me in his ignored list and since I created the thread, he can't see it in the front page. Kind of funny but it's for the best. It's better to ignore someone that makes you have negative emotions. No one needs that.