New Era Podcast

[YagamiFire]

...but Virtua Fighter IS harder than Tekken. Been a Tekken fan since day 1 and that's not an 'elitist' thing to say about VF...it's just factually true.

Also yes KOF is very hard. I still love it though even though I'm godawful terrible at it.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

What, pray tell, is the problem with MK being easy to pick up? It's not like at a high level you will be dunking on everyone just because "you can learn a character in 1 hour". You'll most likely get you ass whipped hundreds of times by much better players, regardless of the skill entry point being low. Personally I like the fact that I can basically understand all characters' strings (what is safe, plus, punishable) in the first week, instead of having to memorize hundreds upon hundreds of different strings "just because".

 

[BarakaTile]

Tekken players nowadays acting like they're solving quadratic equations while playing the game. Like, chill dude. It's the same people who call MK a party game btw. To which I tend to say if MK is a party game, then Tekken is a full-time job

I don't know about players but I'm seeing that certain pro players in the tekken community have their own criticisms of the game. Not that it's too hard but that it's too easy, calling Tekken 8 a Casino.

I mean Virtua Fighter is also a very difficult game. VF4 and VF5 is even more difficult than Tekken lol, Akira might be the hardest Top Tier character to play of all time, so not sure what the point was there.

Have you ever played more than a few hours of Tekken? If so, what is more difficult in MK than Tekken. I can give you examples in Tekken. Movement, execution, stage awareness, are all both more important and more difficult (in some cases much more) in Tekken. I can explain why if needed. What in MK is more difficult? Do you have examples?

Movement. Execution. Stage Awareness. Yeahhhhh we're also gonna have to agree to disagree on Tekken 8 being more difficult than MK1 on this. I think they're similar levels of difficulty personally but it could always be different for somebody else.

Both are easy to pick up and play. Both take skill to master especially against people that are highly skilled.

Meanwhile Tekken community is losing their minds

click the quotes and dig into all those replies

https://x.com/yellow_motion/status/1773625766154011104?s=46&t=TfrxocsJ_-H4-dy4j7KrOQ

The idiocy of the entire FGC is that we all have our little clubs within it, pointing and laughing at the other groups for their games shortcomings/differences.
But in reality we're all in the same boat having to deal with the same things.

 

[Eji1700]

...but Virtua Fighter IS harder than Tekken. Been a Tekken fan since day 1 and that's not an 'elitist' thing to say about VF...it's just factually true.

Also yes KOF is very hard. I still love it though even though I'm godawful terrible at it.

Worth kinda pointing out that "hard" can be measured on different metrics.

KOF is "hard" because of pure execution problems, ditto with tekken (although 8 finally lowered some of that).

VF is hard because of pure execution problems AND a super complex system that also rewards mass knowledge.

Yeah there's all sorts of edge cases and what not, but the point more being that there's a lot of ways a game can be hard, and what people like, or don't like, in difficulty varies.

But when they're gate keeping idiots, "my game is harder because to play it you have to attach tazers to your nipples" qualifies as much as anything else, so it's always struck me as a conversation rarely worth having. Play what you like. For those few trying to make a living off the genre, yeah it might matter, but it's not like anyones going to care how hard your FG lineup is.

 

[YagamiFire]

Something being hard is not necessarily a good nor a bad thing. It can just be a part of the game's nature. VF isn't 'better' because it's harder than Tekken and Tekken isn't better because it's harder than something else.

 

[SaltShaker]

Meanwhile Tekken community is losing their minds

click the quotes and dig into all those replies

https://x.com/yellow_motion/status/1773625766154011104?s=46&t=TfrxocsJ_-H4-dy4j7KrOQ

Well I mean this is like, considering how they slyly launched the Shop post-launch without a whisper then this, it is super inexcusable and indefensible by any standards so there should be mass outrage. So much so that anyone defending these garbage practices deserves to be called a shill. Not sure how any FG fan as a whole let alone Tekken fan can support such shady practices just because "the game is cool and Harada is awesome he says don't ask him for **** omg". Nah, one of the most intentionally predatory premeditated actions we've seen in a while from a FG. Exhibit A of the type of behavior communities should speak up against.

...but Virtua Fighter IS harder than Tekken. Been a Tekken fan since day 1 and that's not an 'elitist' thing to say about VF...it's just factually true.

Also yes KOF is very hard. I still love it though even though I'm godawful terrible at it.

KOF has always been tough but I love KOF. It's the only other game I still play often outside of the NRS games and T8. I'm actually a huge fan of the execution requirements for the game because imo it makes you really feel like you go to level 10 when you hit those dont-you-dare-drop oki tech traps into your showoff tight link corner carry combo. Out of all the FGs KOF gives me the best "feels" when I'm hot. I main Leona/Whip/Athena so you know 2/3 of those takes hella practice LOL! My main fightstick is actually modeled after Athena from a KOF collage from multiple game models.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Guys, please. Idk and Idc why or how those players played Tekken and returned back to MK but for the love of God, Tekken was never a difficult game. It was never scrubby either. All the difficulty is completely artificial because it's just a knowledge check because there are so many characters. The game itself, fundamentally is quite simple and in no way more complicated than MK or SF.



Welcome to the club. I bet many people think my opinions are crappy too

Is the r word legal on this site? The one that rhymes with re carded? Seriously one more post like this and you’re going on the ignore list.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Not sure if serious lol. Tekken is monumentally more difficult than MK or SF. Not every character is Lee-Level execution sure (yet even that is more execution heavy than anything in MK1), but the 3D aspects, required knowledge checks, awareness of when to do what setups due to stage positioning/wall carry variation/stage hazard variation/etc, etc etc is so much more deep than SF and MK combined. That's the difficulty. Being able to do combos with Dragonuv or grabs with King doesn't mean it's not difficult to play lol.

That guy is a clown. Unfortunately morons like him make up most of the NRS fanbase.

 

[YagamiFire]

I main Leona/Whip/Athena so you know 2/3 of those takes hella practice LOL!

Call this man's team "The Dommy Mommy's" because he is a MASOCHIST for execution shit! MY GOD

EDIT:

Wait wait wait I missed that...

Did difficulty just get called 'artificial' because of knowledge-check? Isn't maintaining awareness of character knowledge impressive specifically because it's impressive to be able to retain and execute on that kind of info? WTF? That's exactly the kind of 'difficulty' it's impressive to see someone engaging with...at least for my money. That's way more impressive than "I can press buttons in sequence on the right frames" which is just muscle memory (not to downplay how hard that can be, mind you)

This is like saying "That guys not a good football coach. All he does is know all the plays to use against all of the teams and uses them at the right times"

 

[M2Dave]

Movement. Execution. Stage Awareness. Yeahhhhh we're also gonna have to agree to disagree on Tekken 8 being more difficult than MK1 on this. I think they're similar levels of difficulty personally but it could always be different for somebody else.

Both are easy to pick up and play. Both take skill to master especially against people that are highly skilled.

There is nothing "agree to disagree" on. This topic is objective and straightforward.

Per character, there are 100+ moves, which includes properties such as hit range (i.e., high, mid, special mid, or low), frame data (i.e., on block, on hit, on counter hit, or in heat), tracking (i.e., side step right or left, side walk right or left, or homing), and miscellaneous (i.e., heat engager, heat smash, power crush, wall crush, throw, etc.) Never mind the properties, though. Even if you know absolutely nothing about Tekken, you ought to be able to deduce which fighting game is more or less difficult to play based on the quantity of moves alone.

However, I am not asking for a pat on the back because I play Tekken, and those Tekken players who do are foolish, albeit not as foolish as some of the comments that I have read in the previous two pages. LOL. Speaking of which...

Is the r word legal on this site? The one that rhymes with re carded? Seriously one more post like this and you’re going on the ignore list.

But if you ignore the jester, you will miss out on all the comic relief...

Meanwhile Tekken community is losing their minds

click the quotes and dig into all those replies

https://x.com/yellow_motion/status/1773625766154011104?s=46&t=TfrxocsJ_-H4-dy4j7KrOQ

As I have said before with Mortal Kombat 1 as well as Street Fighter 6, many individuals in the FGC are embarrassingly overreacting to the in-game shops.

As far as I know, you have a choice to purchase or not to purchase content, right? Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

These fools are tweeting like a stranger walked in to their home and slapped their momma.

Absurd and ludicrous behavior.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

I'll take that as you don't have a single example. Yea, my point.

SF4 was also a hard game. I love KOF but it's really hard. GGST on the other hand is very easy, easier than MK hands down. There's nothing wrong with MK being an easy to play game or more accessible right away than most fighting games. That is intentional by design and doesn't make it more or less fun. Every game is different and aims for different things.

I agree with you on literally everything but ggst. The characters are toned down from xrd absolutely and on release it was unga bunga but there’s real zoners like happy chaos, and real mix and okizeme. MK doesn’t have crossups. Compare millia disc on wake up to Lao hat.

But in regards to Tekken you’re totally right.
that debate can be settled by what options defending players have. At any given moment you could crouch, low parry, side step, side walk, armor crush, block, kbd. In GG u can yrc, burst, the weird burst deflect block, just defense, faultless defense. These games are tuned to have options on offense and defense.

in mk u can duck or block, flawless block, and otherwise for abarre you have d1. It’s streamlined & that’s ok it’s still fun but you’re not making so many expressive choices like Tekken or strive. The potential for player style is less in mk’s system

 

[YagamiFire]

As I have said before with Mortal Kombat 1 as well as Street Fighter 6, many individuals in the FGC are embarrassingly overreacting to the in-game shops.

The bizarre thing is that some of these same people were JUST talking about how complete a package Tekken 8 is and that it's everything you could want at launch...

But now that they're making MORE content to add to the game and expect to be paid for their work, the game is somehow a rip-off? HUH? WHAT??

 

[SaltShaker]

As I have said before with Mortal Kombat 1 as well as Street Fighter 6, many individuals in the FGC are embarrassingly overreacting to the in-game shops.

As far as I know, you have a choice to purchase or not to purchase content, right? Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

These fools are tweeting like a stranger walked in to their home and slapped their momma.

Absurd and ludicrous behavior.

The bizarre thing is that some of these same people were JUST talking about how complete a package Tekken 8 is and that it's everything you could want at launch...

But now that they're making MORE content to add to the game and expect to be paid for their work, the game is somehow a rip-off? HUH? WHAT??

Agree with y'all on everything except the MTX. I'll probably never buy anything in there, but that's not the point. It's not just that they did it, but the WAY they did it.

First, they didn't even mention once there would even BE a shop, waited until literally a couple weeks after launch so the reviews phase would pass, and THEN said, "oh by the way we are dropping a Shop in there now where 90% is paid, and you may have wondered why customs are so much more bare compared to T7 and T6, but it's because we're gonna charge you in the future for the good stuff". Harada outright lied about the legacy outfits as you can CLEARLY see the one's that were already in Tekken are literally ported over FROM the old game in a lower quality for people to buy in T8 (that Hwoarang outfit looks like a college kid ported it). No not real money either, "Tekken Coins", where you buy $5 worth of coins to get a $4 outfit and have $1 left in "coins" left over. I shouldn't even have to explain the psychology behind why "coins" is more predatory than real money. Lots of research already is published there.

Then, they come in a month after that with the "Battle Pass". "Make sure you get the premium where anything that matters will be there, and make sure to fall prey to FOMO because remember it's a Battle Pass don't miss out on your rewards. What is this Fortnite now? It's not a F2P game but they've went that route with how they are launching the Battle Pass.



A simple question is this. Well, "if it was so cool and optional to have post-release content, why didn't they announce any of it before launch? Why wait until weeks after?". I mean, it's all optional right? The predatory nature of how they did this is garbage and the main thing wrong with the industry at the moment secondary only to releasing unfinished games and patching them later. If we don't criticize crap like this by Tekken 9 we'll be paying for access just to customize anything and support it by saying "nothing wrong with paying an extra $10 for full customs, you could always just use the four defaults if you don't wanna pay". Nah, they aren't getting a pass for that. Me thinking the game itself is great doesn't change that they knew exactly what they were doing and lied and manipulated on their way to doing it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The bizarre thing is that some of these same people were JUST talking about how complete a package Tekken 8 is and that it's everything you could want at launch...

That was the pre-honeymoon opinion. The honeymoon is over now:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1773670466059653330

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1773676103665639614

And it's obvious why. As with every new game, the FGC holds the dev up as a great gift to gamers everywhere, talks about how flawless the game is and how it will save the community. Only to realize at the end of the day, that it's still a company and that games (all of them) do have flaws.

It was exactly the same with GG:Strive until Strive was "a party game" and SF6 became the golden child. And then with Sf6 > Tekken 8.

 

[SaltShaker]

Call this man's team "The Dommy Mommy's" because he is a MASOCHIST for execution shit! MY GOD

Yea I actually almost quit Leona because of it but it was worth the grind. She's really good and rarely used so I love that lol.

Funny story is a couple of years ago I had been grinding KOF hard and went to Evo to play. I got there early and got to play with Tamago for like an hour, held my own as good as one can against a player of his caliber. Won like 2 games out of 20 LOL. Gave me a good amount of tips after playing and went on my way. When pools started I was feeling hot. Oh who comes up next? Tamago LOL! Needless to say I was eliminated Haha but he was super cool.

 

[rifraf]

Seriously one more post like this and you’re going on the ignore list.

Go ahead. Nothing wrong with that. Since you're done with MK1 I don't have much interest to talk with you either.

 

[rifraf]

Per character, there are 100+ moves, which includes properties such as hit range (i.e., high, mid, special mid, or low), frame data (i.e., on block, on hit, on counter hit, or in heat), tracking (i.e., side step right or left, side walk right or left, or homing), and miscellaneous (i.e., heat engager, heat smash, power crush, wall crush, throw, etc.) Never mind the properties, though. Even if you know absolutely nothing about Tekken, you ought to be able to deduce which fighting game is more or less difficult to play based on the quantity of moves alone.

If you feel that makes Tekken difficult, more power to you man. On a difficulty scale, MK is like 4/10, and Tekken is like a 6/10. Is that really what you're fighting about? A slightly more difficult game than MK is still easy.

But if you ignore the jester, you will miss out on all the comic relief...

Sure, call me names because I said your game is easy to play and not giving you the "bragging rights" that you want.

 

[rifraf]

Did difficulty just get called 'artificial' because of knowledge-check?

Sure, I think you're correct. Artificial was probably a wrong word for it. It's knowledge gained through decades of experience playing the same character and game. It's not artificial of course, but for a newcomer is impossible to compete in high levels.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Interesting monologue by Chris G. This thread seems appropriate enough. Especially considering that we've been discussing "difficulty."

 

[rifraf]

Interesting monologue by Chris G. This thread seems appropriate enough. Especially considering that we've been discussing "difficulty."

Such a great video to bring this whole discussion home. ChrisG is going super in depth but it's so funny listening to him dunking on all the fools. "My game is harder than yours, give me props" ChrisG: All new fighting games are easy.
Btw, he said he really likes MK1, unlike some of you in here.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Injustice was my first real fighting game, so I’ve never had an issue with keep out, zoning, or defense. It’s interesting the war that’s being waged on that play style.

 

[SaltShaker]

Injustice was my first real fighting game, so I’ve never had an issue with keep out, zoning, or defense. It’s interesting the war that’s being waged on that play style.

Injustice was the greatest representation of archtypes we'll ever see. #ProveMeWrong

 

[LEGEND]

Injustice was the greatest game we'll ever see. #ProveMeWrong

fixed

no arguments here

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Injustice was the greatest representation of archtypes we'll ever see. #ProveMeWrong

Flash, Green arrow, batgirl, batman, and nightwing, and catwoman, and doomsday were all rush down characters. Yet they were all played completely differently.

 

[M2Dave]

I wonder whether this thread is next on the deletion list...