What's new

New Era Podcast

rifraf

Noob
I haven't seen a dedicated thread about it around here and after watching the latest episode(6), I decided to make one.
One of the reasons I'm making this thread is because M2Dave is hosting it and CrimsonThunder is a usual attendant, so it kind of feels appropriate in a way to have a thread about it for discussion.

Considering the ongoing flavour of the month being "the game is dying", the participants touched upon the subject, the competition it faces from Tekken 8, and offered potential ways NRS could take to redeem or salvage the game, in their own words. There's quite a lot to unpack here.

Argument no.1: MK1 has no legacy systems/gameplay, it's a completely brand new game.

Being a player myself that skipped MKX and MK11 because I felt there was nothing compelling for me in terms of gameplay, while also both of these games being fundamentally different from the game I loved(MK9) I think I have a pretty good understanding where this argument is coming from. Let me explain why I feel this argument is completely wrong in this case.

1. Systems
a) Both players start the game with 1/3 bars of meter and the player that takes first hit gains 1 bar, exactly like MK9.
b) EX moves function exactly the same between MK9 and MK1, including armoured moves with the difference in MK1 only 1 move per character has armour.
c) The gameplay speed and general pacing of MK1 is extremely similar to MK9.
d) Movement, arguably the most significant aspect of a fighting game. Jumping, dashing, dash blocking, and moving around in general is again extremely similar between MK1 and MK9.
e) Pokes and footsies are again very similar between MK9 and MK1 resulting to a similar neutral game.
f) Sweeps and uppercuts are legacy in most MK titles.
g) Frame data in some characters is quite similar between MK9 and MK1, albeit a bit toned down.
h) Kameos I feel are a direct inspiration from MK9's Tag.

2. Graphics & Aesthetics
This is an area where I feel MK1 took directly out of MK9 in the most straight forward way possible. There's not much to say here, they share the same vibe.

Closing on the first argument. How can anyone seriously claim MK1 has no legacy is beyond me and I think they're straight up disingenuous. In fact, I'll as far to say MK1 is the spiritual successor of MK9. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Argument no.2: Tekken 8 is a better game than MK1 in almost every way and veterans love to come back to it.

Well, that's a good one. Maybe MKTomBrady was there on day 1 when OG MK1 was released but I was there when Tekken was released on PS1, it was my first game on that console and I've been playing Tekken all my life. I've played way more Tekken than MK in total, I've played them all on release.
Maybe I'm way too old, but I feel Tekken as a franchise after T5 has released nothing innovative since then. Tekken 6 was a downgrade compared to T5 in every possible way. Subpar graphics, awful aesthetic, bad gameplay with a million frames of input lag, etc. T7 was T6 all over again but with worse characters and even worse aesthetic. It took them years to lower the abhorrent input lag. And, welcome to 2024 where T8 is apparently a good game.
I think I have completely different standards for Tekken than the new generation of fans. I hold up T3, TTT, and T5 as what the franchise should aspire to. At least T8 managed to launch with decent input delay, it only took them 20 years to figure out how. Pathetic. The game overall is nothing new really. Same-same systems with same characters doing almost exactly the same stuff as 15 years ago. As a veteran, T8 is stale to me out of the box and it has nothing on MK1.

Argument no.3: The game doesn't have complete characters.

This argument has been a recurring thing for quite some time now and even members within the community share it. It's Kung Lao and Sub-Zero. Even though I sympathise with the players that love these 2 and to a lesser extent Reptile and Quan-Chi, I feel it's disingenuous to call the game dumbed down, watered down, or lacking complete characters just because these 2 are badly designed. It is what it is. They are bad, end of story. I've got to say that I remember MK9 Kung Lao with all his tools trivialising the whole game and I don't want that shit back. Say what you want, I'm glad they redesigned him. I just wish they did a better job at it. Also, Kung-Lao kameo shows how oppressive his main tools are, even as a kameo!!
Anyway, I hope NRS retools these characters and makes them awesome. There are badly designed characters, there are weak characters but please, let's stop with the watered down argument. Also, I'm hopeful we'll get a character buff patch. Hopefully, sooner than later.

Argument no4: The game is buggy and online is subpar and missing features.

Not much to say on this one. The fact ranked launched with no connection filter in place and no way to decline bad connections was nothing sort of shocking. Also, the constant state of newly found bugs. Totally unacceptable overall, absolutely true. NRS deserve the heat for it.

Argument no.5: Competitive scene and NRS communication

In terms of NRS' communication, there's again not much to be said other than completely unacceptable. They don't communicate at all with their fans or competitive scene and when they do, it's pure marketing. Awful. Totally deserve the criticism.

I apologize for the long post. I had to say these things since I feel there's a lot of hyperbole around this game.
 

Plop

Noob
I really don't understand how you can say that the graphics and aesthetics are taken straight out of mk9, or even that the two share the same vibe. One of my biggest gripes with this game is the the aesthetics. I hate the artsyle and the boring characters designs. Aesthetic-wise, I think this game looks like a generic fantasy mobile game and NOTHING about this feels like Mortal Kombat, whereas mk9 was absolute peak MK in terms of aesthetics and design. I don't feel the 2 are similar at all.

I am glad that they left the military feel of the last 2 games behind in favor of some Asian mysticism, but that's about it.
 

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
Same-same systems with same characters doing almost exactly the same stuff as 15 years ago.
This is what people mean when they talk about a legacy game. A game like Tekken or SF, where no matter which game is, you can pick up Ryu and Yoshimitsu and just play, because even when there are a few differences from game to game, they play mostly the same. Some people want that. Soul Calibur is a game like that too. Hell, Injustice 2 is as well. The last few MK games have certainly not been like that, characters rarely keep normals from game to game, but their specials tend to behave differently as well, and sometimes they even completely change playstyle, like when Scarlett went from being the most relentless in your face rushdown character, to the most slow paced keep away one.
 

rifraf

Noob
I really don't understand how you can say that the graphics and aesthetics are taken straight out of mk9, or even that the two share the same vibe. One of my biggest gripes with this game is the the aesthetics. I hate the artsyle and the boring characters designs. Aesthetic-wise, I think this game looks like a generic fantasy mobile game and NOTHING about this feels like Mortal Kombat, whereas mk9 was absolute peak MK in terms of aesthetics and design. I don't feel the 2 are similar at all.

I am glad that they left the military feel of the last 2 games behind in favor of some Asian mysticism, but that's about it.
Very interesting take. I'm not going to argue at all about it since art is by nature subjective. I still feel there's a strong tie aesthetically in its core with the main difference lying in the overall theme of each game. MK9=Netherealm/Earthrealm themed, MK1=almost exclusively Outworld themed.

 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Argument no.2: Tekken 8 is a better game than MK1 in almost every way and veterans love to come back to it.

Well, that's a good one. Maybe MKTomBrady was there on day 1 when OG MK1 was released but I was there when Tekken was released on PS1, it was my first game on that console and I've been playing Tekken all my life. I've played way more Tekken than MK in total, I've played them all on release.
Maybe I'm way too old, but I feel Tekken as a franchise after T5 has released nothing innovative since then. Tekken 6 was a downgrade compared to T5 in every possible way. Subpar graphics, awful aesthetic, bad gameplay with a million frames of input lag, etc. T7 was T6 all over again but with worse characters and even worse aesthetic. It took them years to lower the abhorrent input lag. And, welcome to 2024 where T8 is apparently a good game.
I think I have completely different standards for Tekken than the new generation of fans. I hold up T3, TTT, and T5 as what the franchise should aspire to. At least T8 managed to launch with decent input delay, it only took them 20 years to figure out how. Pathetic. The game overall is nothing new really. Same-same systems with same characters doing almost exactly the same stuff as 15 years ago. As a veteran, T8 is stale to me out of the box and it has nothing on MK1.
I appreciate the feedback, but I fail to understand how anyone can claim that Namco has released nothing innovative since Tekken 5.

Tekken 7 introduced rage arts, rage drives, power crush (armor), wall bounces, 2D characters, etc.

Tekken 8 introduced the heat system and by definition heat smash, heat dash, chip damage, etc.

A successful legacy fighting game keeps aspects that players love yet includes new aspects to entertain and challenge players, which is what Capcom and Namco do with Street Fighter and Tekken, respectively.

NRS fails in this regard entirely. Mortal Kombat 9, X, and 11 are so different from one other that one might reasonably deduce that they could have been developed by different fighting game companies, which has led to multiple problems over the years.

On another note, while I agree with 90% of what Tom is saying about the game privately and publicly, this "steroid buff" talking point is inconceivably foolish. In fact, just last night, Namco released a balance patch that primarily nerfed some of the top tier characters, or at least perceived as such week one.

Every fighting game contains gameplay designs or elements that favor certain characters over others. A fighting game that revolves around doing unsafe half screen moves that become safe because of assists is probably not going to benefit zoning characters. On the other hand, a fighting game that has a slow pace and limited movement options like Injustice is probably not going to benefit rush down characters.

To quote Sajam, fighting game have always revolved around "what bull shit you want to tolerate". Albeit a plethora of complaints persists, the majority of players in the NRS universe had rather tolerate characters who play like Cage and Raiden than Freddy and Sub Zero. Mortal Kombat is consequently a result of this tolerance, and no amount of complaining will change anything.
 

Plop

Noob
Very interesting take. I'm not going to argue at all about it since art is by nature subjective. I still feel there's a strong tie aesthetically in its core with the main difference lying in the overall theme of each game. MK9=Netherealm/Earthrealm themed, MK1=almost exclusively Outworld themed.

Well there was a lot of Outworld in mk9 too as it covers mk2, but this leads me to my biggest complaint about the art direction they've gone in... the changes they made to Outworld. They literally took away everything that made Outworld cool. Outworld used to be a big, scary, purple asian horrorland with dragons n shit. Now it's just the middle east with giant armadillos. Some of the more asian themed stages in this game have mk9ish elements to them though, and the Pyramid is a good shout. I suppose the Flesh Pits literally returned too so i'll give you that haha.

I think it's interesting you chose to include Rain's new design though, cos i think that backs up my point about everyone looking like generic fantasy mobile game characters. I guess this is all pretty subjective though, but I'm still annoyed that the ninjas don't even have hoods for the most part.

I get that NRS have to evolve the aesthetic and MK can't stay looking the same forever, but I feel like over the last 3 games they've gotten worse and worse at designing a cool looking bad-ass MK game
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
They made MK into a Marvel movie, aesthetically speaking. That’s the long and short of it. While the stages in MK1 are beautiful, that’s not exactly what I look for in MK. They’re entirely too tranquil in design.

This is Mortal Kombat. Even beautiful stages of the past have had an air of unease to them, and that was by design. These days, they just want you to be fighting in Tony Stark’s mansion.
 

Plop

Noob
They made MK into a Marvel movie, aesthetically speaking. That’s the long and short of it. While the stages in MK1 are beautiful, that’s not exactly what I look for in MK. They’re entirely too tranquil in design.

This is Mortal Kombat. Even beautiful stages of the past have had an air of unease to them, and that was by design. These days, they just want you to be fighting in Tony Stark’s mansion.
Hit the nail on the head there
 

rifraf

Noob
I’ve never seen/heard someone refer to @CrimsonShadow as “Crimson Thunder” lol
My bad :laughing:

I appreciate the feedback, but I fail to understand how anyone can claim that Namco has released nothing innovative since Tekken 5....
I'm not going to lie, I feel quite bitter about Tekken and how it turned out to be as a franchise in general. I absolutely hated all the systems introduced in T6 including bound and rage which never really left the franchise. Also, the introduction of 70% air combos + bounce + wall combos = 100% was just nasty gameplay that again never truly went away, only toned down. I guess you can call that innovation sure, it's just not something I can tolerate personally. Combine all that with the aesthetic transformation of the franchise into an anime game. I have nothing against anime games btw, it's just Tekken was never truly one of them.
Writing all this down, I could see how the franchise could be perceived as being innovative, but you have to like the direction. Clearly, I don't. But if you do, don't let me stop you from loving the game.

In terms of the "steroid buff", I too feel some characters would massively benefit from it. On the other hand, keeping moves in the game that make everything you do safe, pre-nerf Cyrax kameo, is probably not a good thing. The community is quite hyperbolic so I wouldn't want to be in NRS' shoes when it comes to balance.

To quote Sajam, fighting game have always revolved around "what bull shit you want to tolerate". Albeit a plethora of complaints persists, the majority of players in the NRS universe had rather tolerate characters who play like Cage and Raiden than Freddy and Sub Zero. Mortal Kombat is consequently a result of this tolerance, and no amount of complaining will change anything.
That's a very interesting point that I don't have the knowledge to have an opinion on but I'll take your word for it. I just wish every archetype had the opportunity to shine in MK.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Combine all that with the aesthetic transformation of the franchise into an anime game...
Casual players buy Smash for its characters, Mortal Kombat for its gore, Street Fighter for its legacy, and Tekken for its graphics.

Rage arts like Devil Jin's, Jack 6's, and Lars's are clearly over the top, but they are one of the reasons the casual audience buys the game. The formula has worked for Namco.

So, @M2Dave where was "CrimsonThunder" for this particular podcast?
@CrimsonShadow is disappointed with the direction of the podcast. While I agree that there has been excessive negativity about the game's single player content, online gameplay, balance, etc., these topics are discussed by every content creator and player.

Talking about the same thing over and over again does get boring, though. Is there really a point in talking about the state of the game for the 45th time? I do not think so. There should be a better balance between discussing what is happening in the competitive scene and the negativity.
 

rifraf

Noob
@CrimsonShadow is disappointed with the direction of the podcast. While I agree that there has been excessive negativity about the game's single player content, online gameplay, balance, etc., these topics are discussed by every content creator and player.

Talking about the same thing over and over again does get boring, though. Is there really a point in talking about the state of the game for the 45th time? I do not think so. There should be a better balance between discussing what is happening in the competitive scene and the negativity.
Great point. I feel it's understandable to a certain extent most content creators riding high the negativity train but personally I'd expect more from the podcast. Having positive voices such as @CrimsonShadow and Reo missing to counter the overwhelmingly negative MKTomBrady is unfortunate. But, in the end of the day you guys that make the podcast need to ask yourselves if you actually enjoy the game. If MKTomBrady for example told me he liked the game, I'd flat out wouldn't believe him. There's a massive difference in being critical and being toxic.
 

Son ov Timett

Bork, No Jin
This podcast is great, but ForeverKing Jr. Needs to be rotated out. This kid always seems half distracted, and comes off as if he's scrambling to come up with input. This dude grinding in the background while do a podcast?

I'd rather hear our boy @Eddy Wang, especially if he has something he wants/needs to say to the masses.
 

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
Casual players buy Smash for its characters, Mortal Kombat for its gore, Street Fighter for its legacy, and Tekken for its graphics.

Rage arts like Devil Jin's, Jack 6's, and Lars's are clearly over the top, but they are one of the reasons the casual audience buys the game. The formula has worked for Namco.



@CrimsonShadow is disappointed with the direction of the podcast. While I agree that there has been excessive negativity about the game's single player content, online gameplay, balance, etc., these topics are discussed by every content creator and player.

Talking about the same thing over and over again does get boring, though. Is there really a point in talking about the state of the game for the 45th time? I do not think so. There should be a better balance between discussing what is happening in the competitive scene and the negativity.
Yeah, I would definitely like to hear more talk about the competitive scene, matchups, characters, etc...
 

Demon_0

T8/SF6
On another note, while I agree with 90% of what Tom is saying about the game privately and publicly, this "steroid buff" talking point is inconceivably foolish. In fact, just last night, Namco released a balance patch that primarily nerfed some of the top tier characters, or at least perceived as such week one.
Tom's main argument is that the game is "held back" by its current balance and that NRS should just go all in and superbuff every character/kameo and basically break the game because there is no middleground, which is pure nonsense. Its quite baffling to see such a foolish take, from a former pro player nonetheless.

This game is far from perfectly balanced but it has potential to get close to one. At first when I heard about two rosters consisting of characters and kameos, I thought the balance would be a nightmare but its not all that bad. Tom is practically asking for it to be that because "oh, MK9 was so awesome". No, it really wasn't. MK9 was a broken piece of **** balance wise and nobody wants a game like that in today's FGC. And yet, this is 90% of what Tom is advocating for in practically all of his videos.
 
Last edited:

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
Tom's main argument is that the game is "held back" by its current balance and that NRS should just go all in and superbuff every character/kameo and basically break the game because there is no middleground, which is pure nonsense. Its quite baffling to see such a foolish take, from a former pro player nonetheless.

This game is far from perfectly balanced but it has potential to get close to one. At first when I heard about two rosters consisting of characters and kameos, I thought the balance would be a nightmare but its not all that bad. Tom is practically asking for it to be that because "oh, MK9 was so awesome". No, it really wasn't. MK9 was a broken piece of **** balance wise and nobody wants a game like that in today's FGC. And yet, this is 90% of what Tom is advocating for in practically all of his videos.
It's his secret way of asking for Sub-Zero buffs. All the other ways he's tried in the past 13 years have not worked, so it's not such a bad idea to try in a different angle :p
 

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
Tom's main argument is that the game is "held back" by its current balance and that NRS should just go all in and superbuff every character/kameo and basically break the game because there is no middleground, which is pure nonsense. Its quite baffling to see such a foolish take, from a former pro player nonetheless.

This game is far from perfectly balanced but it has potential to get close to one. At first when I heard about two rosters consisting of characters and kameos, I thought the balance would be a nightmare but its not all that bad. Tom is practically asking for it to be that because "oh, MK9 was so awesome". No, it really wasn't. MK9 was a broken piece of **** balance wise and nobody wants a game like that in today's FGC. And yet, this is 90% of what Tom is advocating for in practically all of his videos.
People fixate on the word "balance" too much. It's an overrated term IMO. The most beloved fighting games in history have terrible balance. Balance does not mean good or enjoyable. While Tom can be....intense sometimes what he basically saying is that this game is an assist fighter and should be crazy in terms of the characters/assists like pretty much any other assist fighter has been. There are characters in MK1 that have the gloves off like Cage while others are restricted. I too would like to see some changes in that regard, maybe not to the extent of Brady, but I digress. MK9 was a broken, buggy game but it had something for everyone. rushdown, zoning, etc....
 

Demon_0

T8/SF6
People fixate on the word "balance" too much. It's an overrated term IMO. The most beloved fighting games in history have terrible balance. Balance does not mean good or enjoyable. While Tom can be....intense sometimes what he basically saying is that this game is an assist fighter and should be crazy in terms of the characters/assists like pretty much any other assist fighter has been. There are characters in MK1 that have the gloves off like Cage while others are restricted. I too would like to see some changes in that regard, maybe not to the extent of Brady, but I digress. MK9 was a broken, buggy game but it had something for everyone. rushdown, zoning, etc....
And thats fine, they should have just kept the beta Sub-Zero in the game when we have Cage the way he is and the lower half of the cast should be buffed instead of the top 5 being nerfed. Same with the kameos (except day one Cyrax was too much and needed some nerfs). I'm all for that. But again, Tom literally says that it should either be a boring game or a broken one, there's no inbetween. And that's a bit extreme imo.
 

rifraf

Noob
I'm tuned in to the latest episode and I'm here listening to this new guy asking for armoured launchers, retool all kameos, make the game and characters faster, saying the game feels like Injustice to him, and the list goes on.

Where did you find this guy :laughing:? Not only he clearly doesn't like the game, which is totally fine, but he wants to change it to something completely different.

Guys, seriously. If you don't enjoy the game, it's okay to sit this one out. Take example of @REO Don't try to fundamentally change what some of us actually enjoy. @M2Dave
 

EdFig81

Original OBS mbr/VSM/G4S
I'm tuned in to the latest episode and I'm here listening to this new guy asking for armoured launchers, retool all kameos, make the game and characters faster, saying the game feels like Injustice to him, and the list goes on.

Where did you find this guy :laughing:? Not only he clearly doesn't like the game, which is totally fine, but he wants to change it to something completely different.

Guys, seriously. If you don't enjoy the game, it's okay to sit this one out. Take example of @REO Don't try to fundamentally change what some of us actually enjoy. @M2Dave
He is a OG with MK games that was giving his input which i feel hes entitled to. daddydabs to be exact (may spell his name wrong).
 

rifraf

Noob
Absolutely. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, nothing wrong with that. It's just that it all sounded a bit unhinged to me.

Like, why would I even bother talking about MKX for example when I don't like core mechanics such as the run button, no dash blocking, game pacing and speed, constant 50/50's, roster, animations, etc. :laughing: What does it take to realise that maybe this game might not be for me and I shouldn't even bother :rolleyes: