rifraf
Apprentice
I haven't seen a dedicated thread about it around here and after watching the latest episode(6), I decided to make one.
One of the reasons I'm making this thread is because M2Dave is hosting it and CrimsonThunder is a usual attendant, so it kind of feels appropriate in a way to have a thread about it for discussion.
Considering the ongoing flavour of the month being "the game is dying", the participants touched upon the subject, the competition it faces from Tekken 8, and offered potential ways NRS could take to redeem or salvage the game, in their own words. There's quite a lot to unpack here.
Argument no.1: MK1 has no legacy systems/gameplay, it's a completely brand new game.
Being a player myself that skipped MKX and MK11 because I felt there was nothing compelling for me in terms of gameplay, while also both of these games being fundamentally different from the game I loved(MK9) I think I have a pretty good understanding where this argument is coming from. Let me explain why I feel this argument is completely wrong in this case.
1. Systems
a) Both players start the game with 1/3 bars of meter and the player that takes first hit gains 1 bar, exactly like MK9.
b) EX moves function exactly the same between MK9 and MK1, including armoured moves with the difference in MK1 only 1 move per character has armour.
c) The gameplay speed and general pacing of MK1 is extremely similar to MK9.
d) Movement, arguably the most significant aspect of a fighting game. Jumping, dashing, dash blocking, and moving around in general is again extremely similar between MK1 and MK9.
e) Pokes and footsies are again very similar between MK9 and MK1 resulting to a similar neutral game.
f) Sweeps and uppercuts are legacy in most MK titles.
g) Frame data in some characters is quite similar between MK9 and MK1, albeit a bit toned down.
h) Kameos I feel are a direct inspiration from MK9's Tag.
2. Graphics & Aesthetics
This is an area where I feel MK1 took directly out of MK9 in the most straight forward way possible. There's not much to say here, they share the same vibe.
Closing on the first argument. How can anyone seriously claim MK1 has no legacy is beyond me and I think they're straight up disingenuous. In fact, I'll as far to say MK1 is the spiritual successor of MK9. That's how strongly I feel about this.
Argument no.2: Tekken 8 is a better game than MK1 in almost every way and veterans love to come back to it.
Well, that's a good one. Maybe MKTomBrady was there on day 1 when OG MK1 was released but I was there when Tekken was released on PS1, it was my first game on that console and I've been playing Tekken all my life. I've played way more Tekken than MK in total, I've played them all on release.
Maybe I'm way too old, but I feel Tekken as a franchise after T5 has released nothing innovative since then. Tekken 6 was a downgrade compared to T5 in every possible way. Subpar graphics, awful aesthetic, bad gameplay with a million frames of input lag, etc. T7 was T6 all over again but with worse characters and even worse aesthetic. It took them years to lower the abhorrent input lag. And, welcome to 2024 where T8 is apparently a good game.
I think I have completely different standards for Tekken than the new generation of fans. I hold up T3, TTT, and T5 as what the franchise should aspire to. At least T8 managed to launch with decent input delay, it only took them 20 years to figure out how. Pathetic. The game overall is nothing new really. Same-same systems with same characters doing almost exactly the same stuff as 15 years ago. As a veteran, T8 is stale to me out of the box and it has nothing on MK1.
Argument no.3: The game doesn't have complete characters.
This argument has been a recurring thing for quite some time now and even members within the community share it. It's Kung Lao and Sub-Zero. Even though I sympathise with the players that love these 2 and to a lesser extent Reptile and Quan-Chi, I feel it's disingenuous to call the game dumbed down, watered down, or lacking complete characters just because these 2 are badly designed. It is what it is. They are bad, end of story. I've got to say that I remember MK9 Kung Lao with all his tools trivialising the whole game and I don't want that shit back. Say what you want, I'm glad they redesigned him. I just wish they did a better job at it. Also, Kung-Lao kameo shows how oppressive his main tools are, even as a kameo!!
Anyway, I hope NRS retools these characters and makes them awesome. There are badly designed characters, there are weak characters but please, let's stop with the watered down argument. Also, I'm hopeful we'll get a character buff patch. Hopefully, sooner than later.
Argument no4: The game is buggy and online is subpar and missing features.
Not much to say on this one. The fact ranked launched with no connection filter in place and no way to decline bad connections was nothing sort of shocking. Also, the constant state of newly found bugs. Totally unacceptable overall, absolutely true. NRS deserve the heat for it.
Argument no.5: Competitive scene and NRS communication
In terms of NRS' communication, there's again not much to be said other than completely unacceptable. They don't communicate at all with their fans or competitive scene and when they do, it's pure marketing. Awful. Totally deserve the criticism.
I apologize for the long post. I had to say these things since I feel there's a lot of hyperbole around this game.
One of the reasons I'm making this thread is because M2Dave is hosting it and CrimsonThunder is a usual attendant, so it kind of feels appropriate in a way to have a thread about it for discussion.
Considering the ongoing flavour of the month being "the game is dying", the participants touched upon the subject, the competition it faces from Tekken 8, and offered potential ways NRS could take to redeem or salvage the game, in their own words. There's quite a lot to unpack here.
Argument no.1: MK1 has no legacy systems/gameplay, it's a completely brand new game.
Being a player myself that skipped MKX and MK11 because I felt there was nothing compelling for me in terms of gameplay, while also both of these games being fundamentally different from the game I loved(MK9) I think I have a pretty good understanding where this argument is coming from. Let me explain why I feel this argument is completely wrong in this case.
1. Systems
a) Both players start the game with 1/3 bars of meter and the player that takes first hit gains 1 bar, exactly like MK9.
b) EX moves function exactly the same between MK9 and MK1, including armoured moves with the difference in MK1 only 1 move per character has armour.
c) The gameplay speed and general pacing of MK1 is extremely similar to MK9.
d) Movement, arguably the most significant aspect of a fighting game. Jumping, dashing, dash blocking, and moving around in general is again extremely similar between MK1 and MK9.
e) Pokes and footsies are again very similar between MK9 and MK1 resulting to a similar neutral game.
f) Sweeps and uppercuts are legacy in most MK titles.
g) Frame data in some characters is quite similar between MK9 and MK1, albeit a bit toned down.
h) Kameos I feel are a direct inspiration from MK9's Tag.
2. Graphics & Aesthetics
This is an area where I feel MK1 took directly out of MK9 in the most straight forward way possible. There's not much to say here, they share the same vibe.
Closing on the first argument. How can anyone seriously claim MK1 has no legacy is beyond me and I think they're straight up disingenuous. In fact, I'll as far to say MK1 is the spiritual successor of MK9. That's how strongly I feel about this.
Argument no.2: Tekken 8 is a better game than MK1 in almost every way and veterans love to come back to it.
Well, that's a good one. Maybe MKTomBrady was there on day 1 when OG MK1 was released but I was there when Tekken was released on PS1, it was my first game on that console and I've been playing Tekken all my life. I've played way more Tekken than MK in total, I've played them all on release.
Maybe I'm way too old, but I feel Tekken as a franchise after T5 has released nothing innovative since then. Tekken 6 was a downgrade compared to T5 in every possible way. Subpar graphics, awful aesthetic, bad gameplay with a million frames of input lag, etc. T7 was T6 all over again but with worse characters and even worse aesthetic. It took them years to lower the abhorrent input lag. And, welcome to 2024 where T8 is apparently a good game.
I think I have completely different standards for Tekken than the new generation of fans. I hold up T3, TTT, and T5 as what the franchise should aspire to. At least T8 managed to launch with decent input delay, it only took them 20 years to figure out how. Pathetic. The game overall is nothing new really. Same-same systems with same characters doing almost exactly the same stuff as 15 years ago. As a veteran, T8 is stale to me out of the box and it has nothing on MK1.
Argument no.3: The game doesn't have complete characters.
This argument has been a recurring thing for quite some time now and even members within the community share it. It's Kung Lao and Sub-Zero. Even though I sympathise with the players that love these 2 and to a lesser extent Reptile and Quan-Chi, I feel it's disingenuous to call the game dumbed down, watered down, or lacking complete characters just because these 2 are badly designed. It is what it is. They are bad, end of story. I've got to say that I remember MK9 Kung Lao with all his tools trivialising the whole game and I don't want that shit back. Say what you want, I'm glad they redesigned him. I just wish they did a better job at it. Also, Kung-Lao kameo shows how oppressive his main tools are, even as a kameo!!
Anyway, I hope NRS retools these characters and makes them awesome. There are badly designed characters, there are weak characters but please, let's stop with the watered down argument. Also, I'm hopeful we'll get a character buff patch. Hopefully, sooner than later.
Argument no4: The game is buggy and online is subpar and missing features.
Not much to say on this one. The fact ranked launched with no connection filter in place and no way to decline bad connections was nothing sort of shocking. Also, the constant state of newly found bugs. Totally unacceptable overall, absolutely true. NRS deserve the heat for it.
Argument no.5: Competitive scene and NRS communication
In terms of NRS' communication, there's again not much to be said other than completely unacceptable. They don't communicate at all with their fans or competitive scene and when they do, it's pure marketing. Awful. Totally deserve the criticism.
I apologize for the long post. I had to say these things since I feel there's a lot of hyperbole around this game.
