Mortal Kombat (2011) Matchup Chart

[Zebster]

EX shadow kick only makes a difference if Cage pushes him close enough to the wall. Cage cannot close distance fast enough after EX shadow kick for it to mean anything.

In addition, Johnny Cage's forceball traps don't work on Reptile, and they are big in his game right now.

 

[Konqrr]

I play Scorp pretty extensively I think I can throw in some input on the matchups.

Scorpion

vs Baraka: 6-4
vs Cyrax: 6-4
vs Jade: 6-4
vs Johnny Cage: 5-5
vs Kano: 5-5
vs Nightwolf: 6-4

Why do you think these matches are what they are? Especially the Cyrax/Jade/Nightwolf matchups.

 

[TheChad_87]

I play Scorp pretty extensively I think I can throw in some input on the matchups.

Scorpion
...
Let me know what you guys think.

PEACE

Actually, that looks pretty good. There are a few that make me say "ehhh?" though.
v Johnny Cage 5:5 ... It's not the worst match-up, but I really think 4:6 is about right. Cage is so much better at the rushdown.
v Cyrax 6:4 ... Really? Net trades with Spear and gives Cyrax the advantage. I think that right there is enough to take away any advantage and make this one neutral.
v Jade 6:4 ... Have people still not caught on to how great Jade is? I want to say it's 6:4 in her favor, but It's probably pretty well even against equally matched players.
v Stryker 6:4 ... Might be 5:5, but 6:4 sounds pretty good, too. Gun trades with Spear, but Tele lets him get in your face. I think it's gonna be more of a guessing game, so 5:5

Those are the only ones I had dispute with and even then, it's only by 1 point, so good job ^_^

I agree with you on Nightwolf being 6:4 despite the chart saying the opposite. Nightwold has SO many good match-ups, but IMHO, Scorpion is NOT one of them.

 

[DanCock]

Dan, I don't believe for a second Reptile beats Sindel that bad. XD

What makes a huge difference is Sindel's fireballs. They startup fast and travel fast. It makes it somewhat hard for Reptile to get his projectiles out...thus making it a bit difficult for him to get in. When he does get in, that's where he wins.

if he does his acid ball and she tries to do any projectile shes getting popped up, he has no problem getting in her face with dash.. he nullifies all of her wake up options so once she gets knocked down he pretty much has the fight won. a good reptile (and you know this) isnt going to try and get into a zoning war with her ofcourse she wins that. the dash move is too good he has no problems getting in on any character i cant believe you just said he has a slight problem getting in on sindel any character can dash block/jump in on sindels Air fireballs they arent like Kitanas, liu kangs, scarlet, and kabal.

i need to get some extensive Reptile vs sindel matches going. cause of him being able to nullify her wake up i say he has this match up 7-3. i do need to test and see how wake up levitate can work with the dash on screen.

 

[Konqrr]

Everyone is basing matchups solely on special moves. Remember people, there are normal moves that really define characters and how matchups are played.

Simply saying X trades with Y doesn't really mean much in the big picture. Are there character specific setups? Does char X's main way to get in shut down by char Y? Etc...

he nullifies all of her wake up options so

Reptile nullifies the wakeup moves of 90% of the cast!

When I was playing a friend's Reptile with Sindel, I would anticipate him dashing and throw a close air fireball and hit him lol ... But I am a noob with her just making a read so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[DanCock]

Everyone is basing matchups solely on special moves. Remember people, there are normal moves that really define characters and how matchups are played.

Simply saying X trades with Y doesn't really mean much in the big picture. Are there character specific setups? Does char X's main way to get in shut down by char Y? Etc...



Reptile nullifies the wakeup moves of 90% of the cast!

When I was playing a friend's Reptile with Sindel, I would anticipate him dashing and throw a close air fireball and hit him lol ... But I am a noob with her just making a read so take it with a grain of salt.

no that works, problem is if he doesnt dash and does his acid ball instead then dashes in and then fucks her up.. i wish we could just have pre 1st patch sindel minus the Infinities..

 

[D. R.]

Actually, that looks pretty good. There are a few that make me say "ehhh?" though.
v Johnny Cage 5:5 ... It's not the worst match-up, but I really think 4:6 is about right. Cage is so much better at the rushdown.
v Cyrax 6:4 ... Really? Net trades with Spear and gives Cyrax the advantage. I think that right there is enough to take away any advantage and make this one neutral.
v Jade 6:4 ... Have people still not caught on to how great Jade is? I want to say it's 6:4 in her favor, but It's probably pretty well even against equally matched players.
v Stryker 6:4 ... Might be 5:5, but 6:4 sounds pretty good, too. Gun trades with Spear, but Tele lets him get in your face. I think it's gonna be more of a guessing game, so 5:5

Those are the only ones I had dispute with and even then, it's only by 1 point, so good job ^_^

I agree with you on Nightwolf being 6:4 despite the chart saying the opposite. Nightwold has SO many good match-ups, but IMHO, Scorpion is NOT one of them.

Scorpion vs. JC is 5:5. Neither one has the advantage being they are both rushdown. It'll be a matter of who gets the ball rolling first and if the other person wants to take a risk to get out of the pressure. JC has more frame traps, but Scorps has more damage output, albeit risky at times, and can nullify wake up attempts with a double spear combo ending in EN Hellfire.

Scorps vs. Cyrax I agree is 6:4. Lol at net trading with spear. A solid Scorpion player will never just throw out a spear as it's ridiculously punishable. The arguement can be made with net vs. hellfire though, but in knowing this trade wouldn't be in his favor, that trade should never happen. Scorpion can also react to a net attempt with an EN Spear and take 40% easily. Once Scorpion gets in on Cyrax, he has a hard time dealing with rushdown unless he does a lucky guess or EN Teleport.

Scorps vs. Jade I agree is also 6:4. Same deal with the JC match up. Whoever gets the ball rolling first should come out on top. Scorps wins hands down in the zoning game. Jade's boomerang is very easy for Scorps to react to and EN Spear if he has meter. Normal glow does NOT go through hellfire. Jade's saving grace will always be her EN Glow, but when she's sitting on meter, he can coax her into activating it with frame traps and jumping away. His damage output vs her's, he wins as well.

Scorps vs. Stryker is 6:4. Stryker's very grounded. Trying to play gun cancel games will have him eating hellfire after hellfire. He trys to jump to cover ground, AA spear. Throws a grenade, easily read with an EN Spear. It's not that Stryker's out matched, it's that Scorpion has the slighter edge. I'd like to hear more on this one though.

People, do NOT underestimate the power of Scorpion's EN Hellfire after he lands a second spear in a combo. It's unblockable, inescapable, completely nullifies wake up attempts and is -1. That alone is great against wake up attack spam happy character's.

 

[TheChad_87]

Stuff

Thank you. It's nice to have intelligent conversation as opposed to "I main character X and that's why s/he is good. Trust me."

After reading your points, I do agree on the Cyrax statement. None of my offline sparring partners use Scorpion, so most of this was based on experience Online (Albiet some were online tournaments with really good player, but still ... I digress), where I see tons of naked spears, so Cyrax has always kind of been an anti-Scorp for me. If it's a 5:5 match-up though, I suppose over-all character knowledge and skill is more likely responsible for the wins (Never seen a Scorp in top 16, so most aren't great).

With Johnny Cage, I can agree of 5:5. For me personally, I tend to see Cage come out on top more because he tends to play the counter role better once Scorpion assumes the rushdown. I just felt like Scoprion's risky moveset opens a lot more doors for Cage to punish than Vice-Versa. I'm content to call this one 5:5 though as reading back my own points makes it seem very player dependent.

Jade, I still think is 5:5. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I feel like EN Glow is just too good. She doesn;t have great damage, but she has a few reset tricks with EN Boomerangs that can really boost the damage. I see your points.

And with Stryker, I really feel as you do. I stated that it could very well be 5:5 or 6:4. I really don't have too much experience with this match-up.

 

[CptXecution]

Not trying to be bias in this post just going from what I know and I noticed the KL/Mileena matchup was empty and I'd have to go out on a limb and call this 7-3 Lao. Mileena's main game is to relying on her special attacks to start combos (teleport kick and her roll) which are both EXTREMELY punishable) which opens her up for at least a 30% combo every time with Lao. I'm not going to get into GREAT detail I'm just stating what I think and am definitely open to criticism or changes so let me know.

 

[D. R.]

I play Scorp pretty extensively I think I can throw in some input on the matchups.

Scorpion

vs Baraka: 6-4
vs Cyber Sub: 5-5
vs Cyrax: 6-4
vs Ermac: 5-5
vs Jade: 6-4
vs Jax: 6-4
vs Johnny Cage: 5-5
vs Kabal: 4-6
vs Kano: 5-5
vs Kitana: 4-6
vs Kung Lao: 4-6
vs Liu Kang: 4-6 (5-5)
vs Mileena: 4-6 (5-5)
vs Noob Saibot: 4-6 (5-5)
vs Nightwolf: 6-4
vs Quan Chi: 5-5 (6-4)
vs Raiden: 5-5 (4-6)
vs Reptile:4-6
vs Stryker: 6-4
vs Skarlet: 4-6
vs Sektor: 4-6
vs Shang Tsung: 6-4
vs Sheeva: 6-4
vs Sindel: 5-5
vs Smoke: 5-5
vs Sonya: 5-5
vs Sub-Zero: 5-5

Let me know what you guys think.

PEACE

Basically me being lazy again. I changed some match ups to what I think they are. If discussion is needed on them, then so be it. :scorpion:

 

[Slips]

Why do you think these matches are what they are? Especially the Cyrax/Jade/Nightwolf matchups.

D.R. kinda of wet over the main points, but I'll add a few things.

Cyrax net is good but there's a couple things Scorp can do about it. EX spear is one but kinda risky. The other is simply blocking or jumping the net. Since Cyrax can't spam net getting him to use his net first means you can then hellfire with little to worry about. All he can do is throw out a teleport which is super risky cause Scorp can punish it hard on reacting. If Cyrax starts flooding the screen with bombs and doesn't do net then its gets interesting. But Scorp's ex moves trump Cyrax's zoning overall. Scorp is strong when he gets in now as well. Thats why I say its 6:4 Scorp.

Jade I honestly don't understand why she's good, so maybe someone can enlighten me. But like D.R. said earlier hellfire beats the glow. And I honestly don't see what Jade has when she gets up close. There's no mix up, her pressure is just whatever and her throw just has whatever wake-ups as well. So for me Scorp can work his zoning game pretty good on her and the only thing that makes her decent up close is the purple shit so you just gotta be careful and let her waste it.

Nightwolf is just a different incarnation of Scorpion and I think Scorpion counters him pretty well. Scorp can crouch and buffer spear and wait for a charge and punish him hard. If he jumps Scorps d1 is pretty decent anti-air. Nightwolf's most practical solution is to use lightning but the recovery on it is even worse than Scorps. Plus it does what? Like 7 or 8 percent? I'll eat a few of those just to jump over one of those lightnings to a free spear. So if NW does does shoulder, he gets speared. If he jumps he gets anti-aired. And if he gets too comfortable with lightning, he'll get speared as well. I don't see whats threatening with Nightwolf when he gets close either besides basic pressure. In all honesty he seems like a crappier Scorp if you know how to punish him.

 

[Konqrr]

Not trying to be bias in this post just going from what I know and I noticed the KL/Mileena matchup was empty and I'd have to go out on a limb and call this 7-3 Lao. Mileena's main game is to relying on her special attacks to start combos (teleport kick and her roll) which are both EXTREMELY punishable) which opens her up for at least a 30% combo every time with Lao. I'm not going to get into GREAT detail I'm just stating what I think and am definitely open to criticism or changes so let me know.

Low hat stops her from randomly rolling and recovers too fast to twitch telekick. Her main zoning tools are Sai and iAS which are very good against Lao (and most characters). She is good at punishing teleport attempts too. I'd say 6-4 due to Low Hat.

 

[D. R.]

Jade I honestly don't understand why she's good, so maybe someone can enlighten me. But like D.R. said earlier hellfire beats the glow. And I honestly don't see what Jade has when she gets up close. There's no mix up, her pressure is just whatever and her throw just has whatever wake-ups as well. So for me Scorp can work his zoning game pretty good on her and the only thing that makes her decent up close is the purple shit so you just gotta be careful and let her waste it.

Her only "mix up" involves EN boomerang traps and her 3, 4 string. The second hit hits low and can be comboed if she has meter into her EN Jumping Overhead. This is some what scary as she now has a legit guessing 50/50 in which she can go 3, Overhead into combo or 3, 4 into combo. That's really it when it comes to up close mix up. Her wake up options are garbage except for EN Glow. The match will boil down to Scorpion controlling her meter management. If Jade has no meter to work with, Scorpion wins easily.

 

[Shiizu]

I agree with Jade vs Scorpion being 6-4 to Scorpion. He's one of the few characters that gives her trouble with hellfire/teleport mix-ups. Spear/EX Spear aren't a problem since shadow glow passes through it, but he makes Jade jump in the fear of getting caught in hellfire, and she doesn't have a lot of options in the air. IMO, she has the tools necessary to beat Scorpion with EN shadow kick, EN glow (one of the best wakeups), but she has to rely too much on meter in this matchup. They're about even in terms of damage (Jade being able to do 35%-40% with a meterless combo/punish), I think this match is more like a 5.5-4.5 for Scorpion.

 

[UsedForGlue]

EX shadow kick only makes a difference if Cage pushes him close enough to the wall. Cage cannot close distance fast enough after EX shadow kick for it to mean anything.

Agreed.

Its a punish and armour move.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Everyone is basing matchups solely on special moves. Remember people, there are normal moves that really define characters and how matchups are played.

Simply saying X trades with Y doesn't really mean much in the big picture. Are there character specific setups? Does char X's main way to get in shut down by char Y? Etc...



Reptile nullifies the wakeup moves of 90% of the cast!

When I was playing a friend's Reptile with Sindel, I would anticipate him dashing and throw a close air fireball and hit him lol ... But I am a noob with her just making a read so take it with a grain of salt.

Reptile is growing stronger and stronger with the good players recently.

And I know TomBrady lost to ChrisG's reptile, But the rounds that Brady won by doing subzero's bread and butter game, stopped reptile with some serious effect. Il use Sub to counter reptile, or at least obvious reptile players, because I think that Sub at dash distance and in the corner can really push reptile out of his comfort zone.

How does your Kitana do against Smoke and Ermac?

 

[Konqrr]

How does your Kitana do against Smoke and Ermac?

My Kitana has destroyed every Smoke I've played, but I haven't played Aris' yet.

Ermac gives me troubles sometimes, but I usually win. It's sometimes hard to stay out of bf1 range or close enough to punish it, and fear of bf1 keeps me in block a lot which lets him jump in for free at times. Online Ermacs scare me because I can't play footsies or react to crossups fast enough.

 

[M2Dave]

Nightwolf is just a different incarnation of Scorpion and I think Scorpion counters him pretty well. Scorp can crouch and buffer spear and wait for a charge and punish him hard. If he jumps Scorps d1 is pretty decent anti-air. Nightwolf's most practical solution is to use lightning but the recovery on it is even worse than Scorps. Plus it does what? Like 7 or 8 percent? I'll eat a few of those just to jump over one of those lightnings to a free spear. So if NW does does shoulder, he gets speared. If he jumps he gets anti-aired. And if he gets too comfortable with lightning, he'll get speared as well. I don't see whats threatening with Nightwolf when he gets close either besides basic pressure. In all honesty he seems like a crappier Scorp if you know how to punish him.

I don't see how Nightwolf is an inferior version of Scorpion. Nightwolf's game doesn't revolve around shoulder and lightning mix ups at mid range. The lightning is too unsafe to be used frequently. It's one of those moves that you use sparingly, but you always want your opponent to know that it's there. The shoulder can be used more often depending how your opponent responds to the move. Obviously, if you see somebody crouching without blocking at mid range, you wouldn't go for it. Aside from punishment, the shoulder is supposed to keep people in check. It's supposed to stop people from walking and dashing, so that Nightwolf can approach his opponent safely and apply pressure. Speaking of pressure, I wouldn't say that f+3,1~d,f+1 provides basic pressure. f+3,1~d,f+1 is definitely better than any string Scorpion has. It's actually one of the better strings in the game. Each hit after f+3 has "natural" delay and can fool people into attacking which results in a juggle. Once you train your opponent to block, you can do f+3 once and throw, for instance. f+3 is also one of the few attacks in the game that forces stand on grounded opponents. f+3 is useful after Nightwolf's throw because the throw disables rolling. It forces opponents to block f+3 or perform a wake up attack.

In my opinion, Nightwolf is the 3rd best character in the game at the moment. Kung Lao is 1st and Reptile is 2nd. I think the match up chart will eventually support these claims.

 

[Tom Brady]

in no way is rept over raiden. even in a match up chart, raiden loses no matches where as rept gets destroyed by skarlet.

stryker vs sub is 6-4 sub.

stryker holding gun shot doesnt matter because NW can just ex shoulder.

as the game evolves ppl will find mileena is better then kitana.

 

[M2Dave]

in no way is rept over raiden. even in a match up chart, raiden loses no matches where as rept gets destroyed by skarlet.

You told me on AIM that she was most likely going to be patched, so I am kind of looking past her at the moment. I like Skarlet, but I cannot devote myself to her when NRS appears to be breathing down her neck. NRS could always patch Skarlet unnecessary like they did with Kano's Knife Toss.

By the way, do you believe that Nightwolf has any losing match ups?

 

[Zebster]

as the game evolves ppl will find mileena is better then kitana.

Oh shit, motivation to finish "mastering" Cage so I can go back to Mileena.

 

[TheChad_87]

I just noticed that the Chart has Nightwolf v Raiden as 6:4 in Nightwolf's favor ...
Anyone care to elaborate as to why? It seems to be the mob mentality that Raiden has no bad match-ups, so I'm more than a little curious.

 

[D. R.]

When all is said and done, the match up chart will be something like this depicting tiers:

1. Thunder Queer

2. Bung Load

3. Johnny Carson
4. Geico Gecko
5. Speed Poppin' Sandperson

6. Anti-Litter Crying Chief
7. Frosty the Snowman
8. Yummy Mummy
9. Cataracts
10. Cuntana

11-32. Does it even matter? Blah. Pick one of them to win up there^^^^^^^^

..... Til patch Ver. 1.03 that is. FYI, Noob's top tier in that version. Safer tackles and a damage buff. Oh yeah. :evil:

 

[zaf]

11-32. Does it even matter? Blah. Pick one of them to win up there^^^^^^^^

This is a pretty retarded mentality to have.
Picking the same chars over and over results in the unused characters never becoming fully developed. One of the underused characters could end up being in the top ten, but with a top tier mentality, this will never happen.

In the end when you pick a top tier character, you need to develop the character to your playstyle and learn "tricks/mindgames"
You do not just pick a top tier character and become amazing with them. I do not see why people just develop any character they want to play and just learn and get better. but i guess when money is involved.....

 

[D. R.]

11-32. Does it even matter? Blah. Pick one of them to win up there^^^^^^^^

This is a pretty retarded mentality to have.
Picking the same chars over and over results in the unused characters never becoming fully developed. One of the underused characters could end up being in the top ten, but with a top tier mentality, this will never happen.

In the end when you pick a top tier character, you need to develop the character to your playstyle and learn "tricks/mindgames"
You do not just pick a top tier character and become amazing with them. I do not see why people just develop any character they want to play and just learn and get better. but i guess when money is involved.....

Sarcasm eludes the simple minded, doesn't it?