EGP Awesomo
R.T.S.D
You can just stand back and punish him on recovery, also to my understanding Invincible moves lose to throwEX smoke torwards and backwards is INVINCIBLE.
You can just stand back and punish him on recovery, also to my understanding Invincible moves lose to throwEX smoke torwards and backwards is INVINCIBLE.
Only agree with Pyro as I feel they ruined kobu because everyone hated it, and doubt they will fix that. I don't really care about f3 it was unusable anyway the run cancel on it was always dumb and it's a small launcher. I like the ex shroud stunning should be able to stun in air aswell unlike ex tonfa only stunning in ground. Though you'll see ex shroud being used on ground way more but still let us have the option to use in air. And ofc I liked the more strings and no gap in b312. But if I were to make an adjustmentioned to kobu I'd bring back armour on ex tonfa. Characters lock her in because she don't have her old armour to tonfa out. Well, in my experience I really relied on tonfas armour.Tanya
Universal: F3 is 16 frames
Drill kick and flip kick back to its original state
Pyro:
Ex fireball (ground) now does 12% damage
F3 now does 13% damage on shrouded opponents and fireballs can still be used afterwards.
Gap in b312 is removed.
Ex shroud now stuns to continue combos (like Ex Tonfa).
And finally more strings (one of which being a true mid attack)
Kobu:
B12+4 now does it original damage
Ex Tonfa does significantly more damage (big damage)
B12+42+3 now does increased damage.
Extra strings that are actually USEFUL in Kobu
With the tonfas.
Anyone who's not a complete idiot can just hit any standing normal when he's going through the motion and not quite set on the out of his phase on the other side and blow it up. I've had it happen multiple times...EX smoke torwards and backwards is INVINCIBLE.
Not true. He can be grabbed out on a read / reaction, and for an even greater punish, walk back a bit and punish full combo on his recovery.EX smoke torwards and backwards is INVINCIBLE.
As someone who both hates and enjoys the robots, I find if I have smoke in the corner knowing he will possibly phase out, I stop all pressure and throw him back in the corner on a read and continue my game, or as I mentioned above, walk back a bit and punish him on recovery.So you guys wants his tele to be safe on recovery.. ok you can want that, thats fine.
But if your opponent continues his pressure while you wake up tele, looks like it works as a get out of jail card and you can punish them while they are wiffing. This is true or false? i just want to know from a smoke players perspective.
If you sit there, Smoke can just fight his way out if the Smoke player reads that. If he reads you won't pressure, or even delay your pressure slightly, he can wait as well, then EX phase when you scoot forward. It isn't much different than any other wakeup attack, honestly...you sit there, that will beat the wakeup. You don't, then he's out.If you don't try and meaty Smoke and take a step back you can punish him in recovery for it. If he doesn't wake up then you can just apply pressure. Johnny Cage does this really well because he can stand in the spot to punish the wakeup if Smoke does, then if he doesn't wakeup then he can F3 for his pressure. It's ugh.
Just grab y grab him out of everythingIn a block string, I think you can. Yes. But I haven't tested. I'd imagine if he's phasing through you then you can simply jab punish him but i dno. A lot of his things you don't actually have to deal with, people just haven't explored all their options or know the MU yet. Hell, I struggle fighting against Smoke even though I have the knowledge, it's just practice I need lol.
Ahhhh Dragons Breath. Yeah, that shit will be taken out. Lol.
Bare minimum he needs a lot of whiffing fixedIf you sit there, Smoke can just fight his way out if the Smoke player reads that. If he reads you won't pressure, or even delay your pressure slightly, he can wait as well, then EX phase when you scoot forward. It isn't much different than any other wakeup attack, honestly...you sit there, that will beat the wakeup. You don't, then he's out.
Smoke realistically doesn't need anything fixed on him. He's fine the way he is.
Like what?Bare minimum he needs a lot of whiffing fixed
It's really good damage especially with these proposed buffs. But you don't need to run cancel with it in combos use f2 (spinning slaps). They probably won't do that with Kobu, but idc that's what would be good. No only extra damage and less frames they should make F3 usable and fix the run cancel.Only agree with Pyro as I feel they ruined kobu because everyone hated it, and doubt they will fix that. I don't really care about f3 it was unusable anyway the run cancel on it was always dumb and it's a small launcher. I like the ex shroud stunning should be able to stun in air aswell unlike ex tonfa only stunning in ground. Though you'll see ex shroud being used on ground way more but still let us have the option to use in air. And ofc I liked the more strings and no gap in b312. But if I were to make an adjustmentioned to kobu I'd bring back armour on ex tonfa. Characters lock her in because she don't have her old armour to tonfa out. Well, in my experience I really relied on tonfas armour.
It's more of a reaction based on whether he wakes up or not. I think it's harder for him on wakeup more than any other character who has wakeups.If you sit there, Smoke can just fight his way out if the Smoke player reads that. If he reads you won't pressure, or even delay your pressure slightly, he can wait as well, then EX phase when you scoot forward. It isn't much different than any other wakeup attack, honestly...you sit there, that will beat the wakeup. You don't, then he's out.
Smoke realistically doesn't need anything fixed on him. He's fine the way he is.
I agree, but I think it should just bounce automatically. She has no over heads in pyro accept jump ins but how good are they in any fighting game. As soon as you charge everybody knows what your doing or your get blasted real quick with a 35%+ combo.It's really good damage especially with these proposed buffs. But you don't need to run cancel with it in combos use f2 (spinning slaps). They probably won't do that with Kobu, but idc that's what would be good. No only extra damage and less frames they should make F3 usable and fix the run cancel.
I don't see how. In fact, in certain ways, it's easier. Smoke is one of, what, 2 variations that are capable of using a wakeup no matter what their life is. Also, having a standard wakeup attack wouldn't really solve the problem of being able to get out of the corner. Giving him armor on EX teleport would do nothing for him that EX phase already does better. If they wait on your teleport, they'll punish you anyway. And in the process, you can get your armor broken, get blocked, etc. It honestly wouldn't solve the issue Smoke players seem to have with waking up, which is basically getting read on their wakeups. Which would happen with any other character. >_>It's more of a reaction based on whether he wakes up or not. I think it's harder for him on wakeup more than any other character who has wakeups.
We'll agree to disagree on the last point.
Yeah, I agree.I agree, but I think it should just bounce automatically. She has no over heads in pyro accept jump ins but how good are they in any fighting game. As soon as you charge everybody knows what your doing or your get blasted real quick with a 35%+ combo.
There even was a Tier list going around here weeks before the game came out.xDThis is TYM. There were nerf and buff threads for DLC before they even came out. :16Bit
He can, the problem is that typically in NRS games to be a viable zoner you still need good utility in close quarters to back yourself up, and well, his normals pre-patch were whack. That's not the case so much anymore. I'd say the buffs to his normals are still more beneficial to Kenjutsu/Possessed overall but it still may be all that's needed as far as making Balanced serviceable for the matchups it should be used in.Kenshi (Balanced) should actually be able to zone, lol.
There's a little thing in this game called "variations", one of which literally eliminates this from happening if you're that concerned about it.The high has 43 recovery frames on whiff. You can run in on kenshi 3/4 screen if that whiffs
I'm not suggesting giving Ex phase armour or giving him a standard armoured attack (like on Tele). I'm just saying that on wakeup make the distance travelled increased because currently characters can stand in a position where if he wakes up then they can punish but if he doesn't they get pressure - the risk/reward when you think about it isn't exactly in his favour since the opposer can cover two options at once.I don't see how. In fact, in certain ways, it's easier. Smoke is one of, what, 2 variations that are capable of using a wakeup no matter what their life is. Also, having a standard wakeup attack wouldn't really solve the problem of being able to get out of the corner. Giving him armor on EX teleport would do nothing for him that EX phase already does better. If they wait on your teleport, they'll punish you anyway. And in the process, you can get your armor broken, get blocked, etc. It honestly wouldn't solve the issue Smoke players seem to have with waking up, which is basically getting read on their wakeups. Which would happen with any other character. >_>
My only issue with Smoke is general Triborg stuff. Not having a really solid mid sucks, but it's whatever, given f1 exists. That normal is actually pretty silly. Smoke bombs being slow is fine considering the tracking can be controlled and the fact that they are -6 on block. On a good read, I've snagged people attempting to come in full force really nicely. And I think eventually EX bomb will see good use in the situations we want to use it in. Only extra thing I'd want to see is b1 smoke bomb actually working midscreen, but I wouldn't be surprised if that got the Sub freeze treatment and gets taken away.
Discussion is healthy earlier on. It lets us explore ideas together earlier on so we can all reach the best conclusion in the end. The opinions will probably adapt over time with the gameplayShouldn't people adapt to the current patch first? I have not even adapted fully to Goro and Kitana's changes yet lol.