MK11 Kano Discussion

[DubiousShenron]

Johnny's Mime Time is 12 frame startup.

This is 100% correct man. Any faster and these parries would be so ridiculously unbalanced. It'd be even dumber than armored reversals.

Making it 11 frame startup means you can't just use it every single time you're at the disadvantage as Kano. Imagine going for something that leaves you -5 then being able to counter everything they do afterwards except lows and grabs.

Like this it's meant to be done in the neutral or it could be cancelled into after your opponent blocks a string (which is still really good). F12xxParry sounds pretty good if the parry game is someone's niche.

I agree with everything you said but why can’t there be a grey area? How fast is too fast for a kounter in this game?

 

[Murderation76]

Nice find on that tick my guy. That can definitely lead to some dirt. 8f high starter that's -1oB. Strong strike/throw mix on that. Hopefully our D1 has enough hit advantage to guarantee the 11. I really feel that lumbar check is gonna be essential for Kano at a high-level. It's going to give him his scariest mixup potential. 18% every time we read correct on the opponent blocking. That's about the same damage as a lot of meterless combos in this game. It will also make opponents to scared to tech roll because of the KB.

I'm still feelin like he's missing a fast mid-started string. If his D1 ends up being like only +5oH, we're gonna be getting disrespected and low profiled with D1/D3s all day when we have frame advantage. We need a button that we can start pressure or frametrap into that isn't a high. I know a lot of this is being adjusted by NRS and I should just stop buggin.

On the parry, I just don't think the value is there in this game to justify using up one of your special slots. Commando's parry was moderately useful in MKX because of all the armor shenanigans in that game and blowing up a few gapped strings. In MK11 we don't have to worry about armor and I think NRS pushing a more "honest" meta where a throwing out a 2f parry every time you're slightly negative wouldn't make sense.

A few things I noticed on unroolie's vids

- @Circus you right bro, F12B2 will be our lifeblood in neutral. It's such a sick looking string too. On the Kano tower of time vid @1:42, you see how far the hitbox goes on the spit? It might be farther than the F1, lmao. He starts the string from full screen and it hits. Completely safe and fuckin +24 on hit will let us set up anything we damn want. Interesting that they made the spit do no damage. Also, once they respect it, F12 may set up an OH/L 50/50 between F12B2 and F12, F2.
- In the same vid---I noticed that without the manhandled special, 223 and 214 don't go into the animation that causes sideswitch. Both strings end in knockdown in front. This might be better for corner pressure. We get the mix potential of the standing 2 without losing the corner.
- Kinda disappointed about the frame data on amp knife toss, was hoping it would give us a few plus frames on block like Johnny gets with his fireball, or at least a special to make strings safe on block for a bar. It's has more pushback and less frames (+7) on hit too. Regular knife is +15 oH and leaves opponent right in your face, so I think this will great to hit confirm strings into and go for a standing reset/setup a lumbar check.

 

[Jynks]

The more I see of Kano the more I like him. He is so brutal.. out of all the revealed characters he is defiantly the most hardcore and I like that kind of thing in my MK games. So far he is the only reveal that I watch gameplay for and go.. "wow.. those moves are wicked brutal"

Also I think his quips in the intros are all fantastic as well as the in game chat... he is just looking awesome on all levels.

If only he didn't pee at the start of each round. I hate that intro.

 

[SaltShaker]

Added his extra strings he gets from equiping "Manhandled", his Rack Off parry, and his Lumbar Check command grab (still no telling if it's mid or high).

I got it from this recent video from unroolie (Kenny from YoVideoGames). He's been such an asset to me for frame data because he only scrolls through the movelist. Great guy.

EDIT:

HE HAS A TICK GRAB FROM HIS 11 STRING!!!!!

THIS IS HUGE!!! IT'S ONLY -1 ON BLOCK OMFG EHOLDHOSBASUIFBIDNFISUDBFSD IM SO HAPPPPYHFIUBUFSDFONSDNDS

Do you know (or anyone) what the 112 string is? Does 112 lead to a KD or can you cancel it into a special? Because if it's the latter and 112 can be cancelled, then...

Making it 11 frame startup means you can't just use it every single time you're at the disadvantage as Kano. Imagine going for something that leaves you -5 then being able to counter everything they do afterwards except lows and grabs.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

I don’t understand why do you even bother with frame data. Steve already said frame data is inconsistent before release and they can change anything. Even either add or remove a move.

 

[Guindaste78]

You can Command Grab after that low grab (Baiana - JiuJitsu Move). So many possibilites!

 

[theotherguy]

I don’t understand why do you even bother with frame data. Steve already said frame data is inconsistent before release and they can change anything. Even either add or remove a move.

I wonder the same.

Given that changing just a few frames might turn one of the scenarios mentioned so far from being a totally awesome game changing situation to utterly useless, it seems to be a lot of effort for no great gain.

And no doubt, when that happens the cries of "they nerfed the shit out of him" will be heard for days. While it might be interesting to see, i wouldn't be betting on it staying exactly as is for now.

 

[M.D.]

So far the only thing worth mentioning is that he has the only armor in the game.

 

[Circus]

Do you know (or anyone) what the 112 string is? Does 112 lead to a KD or can you cancel it into a special? Because if it's the latter and 112 can be cancelled, then...

112 is just a slash that knocks down and is not special cancellable. It is -1 on block though so it will still be one of his best moves used to bait D1s.

I'm so glad you know the stupidity that is Asuka. I was immediately thinking of her when I mentioned the parry lol. While Tekken does have this nonsense, I just don't think NRS wants to enter this realm of annoying if they've eliminated so many other get out of jail free cards lol.

Nice find on that tick my guy. That can definitely lead to some dirt. 8f high starter that's -1oB. Strong strike/throw mix on that. Hopefully our D1 has enough hit advantage to guarantee the 11. I really feel that lumbar check is gonna be essential for Kano at a high-level. It's going to give him his scariest mixup potential. 18% every time we read correct on the opponent blocking. That's about the same damage as a lot of meterless combos in this game. It will also make opponents to scared to tech roll because of the KB.

I'm still feelin like he's missing a fast mid-started string. If his D1 ends up being like only +5oH, we're gonna be getting disrespected and low profiled with D1/D3s all day when we have frame advantage. We need a button that we can start pressure or frametrap into that isn't a high. I know a lot of this is being adjusted by NRS and I should just stop buggin.

On the parry, I just don't think the value is there in this game to justify using up one of your special slots. Commando's parry was moderately useful in MKX because of all the armor shenanigans in that game and blowing up a few gapped strings. In MK11 we don't have to worry about armor and I think NRS pushing a more "honest" meta where a throwing out a 2f parry every time you're slightly negative wouldn't make sense.

A few things I noticed on unroolie's vids

- @Circus you right bro, F12B2 will be our lifeblood in neutral. It's such a sick looking string too. On the Kano tower of time vid @1:42, you see how far the hitbox goes on the spit? It might be farther than the F1, lmao. He starts the string from full screen and it hits. Completely safe and fuckin +24 on hit will let us set up anything we damn want. Interesting that they made the spit do no damage. Also, once they respect it, F12 may set up an OH/L 50/50 between F12B2 and F12, F2.
- In the same vid---I noticed that without the manhandled special, 223 and 214 don't go into the animation that causes sideswitch. Both strings end in knockdown in front. This might be better for corner pressure. We get the mix potential of the standing 2 without losing the corner.
- Kinda disappointed about the frame data on amp knife toss, was hoping it would give us a few plus frames on block like Johnny gets with his fireball, or at least a special to make strings safe on block for a bar. It's has more pushback and less frames (+7) on hit too. Regular knife is +15 oH and leaves opponent right in your face, so I think this will great to hit confirm strings into and go for a standing reset/setup a lumbar check.

Great points about all his stuff. Nice.

I wouldn't worry too much about his lack of a proper mid from up close by the way. I understand your concerns 100%. Trust me, I was feeling the same for a long time. Honestly though, after some thought, he doesn't need a better mid with the way his moves/frame data is in this very state right now.

Just remember this. Always remember this.

When a move is barely negative on block (like Kano's current F12, 11, and 112) it makes it so you could just walk backwards and bait your opponent's fastest low pokes.

This is what Kano will do instead of using a mid to cover the holes in his game.

Kano is a very well made character at the moment and I don't think his frame data will change very far from what it is at the very moment as far as startup and block frames go.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm so glad you know the stupidity that is Asuka. I was immediately thinking of her when I mentioned the parry lol. While Tekken does have this nonsense, I just don't think NRS wants to enter this realm of annoying if they've eliminated so many other get out of jail free cards lol.

I like you bro, for years you're one of my favorite posters here and we are fellow Kano main's. So I am going to let that Asuka disrespectful blasphemy slide this one time.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

So far the only thing worth mentioning is that he has the only armor in the game.

Baraka’s flag charge has armor

 

[Kroaken]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MortalKombat/comments/b0pkng/me_i_dont_thirst_over_fictional_characters_sees/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

This one made me lol

 

[NothingPersonal]

One little thing I would change about Kano's fatal blow is for him to hit the opponent two times in the ribs instead of stepping on the knife. Just a little more personality imo.

 

[kantboy-2]

If he gets the MKX knives as gear, I'm all set.

 

[DubiousShenron]

If he gets the MKX knives as gear, I'm all set.

Yea let’s get those thicc steak knives. I want the mk9 knives modeled after the one from the live action movie.

Edit: please also mk1/mkx skins for kano

 

[kantboy-2]

I'm sure every knife from MK 1 to MK X and all related media will be gear, even Jarek's and Kira's.

If they add the option to alter his facial hair separate from his skins, he'll be one of the most diverse looking characters in the game.

 

[kobrafan79]

Anyone else worried that Kano's combo potential might be severely lacking when the full game comes out?. I feel like what he has is EXTREMELY lacking when compared to some of the latest characters shown. Then again that goes for alot of the first characters they showed off.

 

[MagicMan357]

Anyone else worried that Kano's combo potential might be severely lacking when the full game comes out?. I feel like what he has is EXTREMELY lacking when compared to some of the latest characters shown. Then again that goes for alot of the first characters they showed off.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP

 

[Circus]

Anyone else worried that Kano's combo potential might be severely lacking when the full game comes out?. I feel like what he has is EXTREMELY lacking when compared to some of the latest characters shown. Then again that goes for alot of the first characters they showed off.

Let me ease your mind!

Damage:
Kano has three different combo extender variation moves
IMO he'll average about 35% every time he'll land a solid combo starter.

Counter Zoning:
F3 goes under slow startup projectiles on reaction (just like a teleport)
He has his Downward Air Ball to counter other projectiles.

His Gameplan:
The startup and recovery on his knives is very good.
While zoning him out will be difficult, he will likely be able to zone many others out if they don't have something very specific to counter his anti-zone tools.

I'd say the character in the beta that he'll resemble the closest is Baraka, but with obvious differences in the way they go about their gameplan.

He'll be just fine man lol.
While it might be too early to say that he'll be dominate, it's also too early to say that he'll be weak. Kano won't be the easiest to win with because his strategy isn't so straight forward, but on paper at least, he has all the tools he needs to be a serious contender.

 

[kobrafan79]

Thank you this is what i wanted to hear.

 

[Murderation76]

Anyone else worried that Kano's combo potential might be severely lacking when the full game comes out?. I feel like what he has is EXTREMELY lacking when compared to some of the latest characters shown. Then again that goes for alot of the first characters they showed off.

Not sure where you got that impression from, but nah. I have a few concerns about Kano from the early frame data we have (namely lack of mid starter and safe options) but combo potential ain't one of them. To expound on what @Circus has already gone over, Kano has 3 equip-able launchers:

- Manhandled gives an amplify to 241 string for an air launch. The second hit is a low, it's off the psuedo OH/L mixup from standing 2.
- Snakebite air launches on amplify.
- Bio-magnetic pull is a 14f mid with half-screen reach and is a combo extender on amplify AND is +1 on block, it's godlike. It keeps the opponent grounded which is extremely valuable in MK11 since the opponent cannot air escape.
- Also, B2 is a 13f mid with good reach that launches meterless. Unfortunately, it's mad unsafe. It will have to visually confirmed to use for whiff punish. (I really hope they make this like -7 on block instead of -17, it's the only change I'm really hoping for)

Kano has a lot of combo options man, don't worry. I bet Kano will be doing around 40-45% damage for two bars. The 2 bar combo on KK that Tyler did was 38% and was more than likely not optimal.

 

[Circus]

- Also, B2 is a 13f mid with good reach that launches meterless. Unfortunately, it's mad unsafe. It will have to visually confirmed to use for whiff punish. (I really hope they make this like -7 on block instead of -17, it's the only change I'm really hoping for)

Kano has a lot of combo options man, don't worry. I bet Kano will be doing around 40-45% damage for two bars. The 2 bar combo on KK that Tyler did was 38% and was more than likely not optimal.

Yeah, I think you're right on Kano's damage potential. He seems like he's going to hit like a truck if he punishes something with 2 bars.

Having B2 be safe would be way too powerful though.
It goes into huge damage too so it'd literally be the only move he'd need to use lol.

My ONLY concern would be his current walk speed.
I know there is a dash speed increase coming on launch, but compared to literally everyone else's walk speed I've seen so far, Kano's is one of the worst.

 

[Murderation76]

Yeah, I think you're right on Kano's damage potential. He seems like he's going to hit like a truck if he punishes something with 2 bars.

Having B2 be safe would be way too powerful though.
It goes into huge damage too so it'd literally be the only move he'd need to use lol.

My ONLY concern would be his current walk speed.
I know there is a dash speed increase coming on launch, but compared to literally everyone else's walk speed I've seen so far, Kano's is one of the worst.

I dunno man, have you seen Subzero's B2? 14f mid with similar range that launches and is -2 oB.

I've been playing Kabal for a few hundred matches and his offensive options are nuts. F22 is 12f advancing mid and you can confirm into nomad for like 33%damage + restand AND F22 is his stagger string.

I'm with you on the walkspeed. Given the meta of MK11, I think walk speed is what is gonna separate the S tier characters from the rest. Liu Kang looks bananas lol.

 

[NothingPersonal]

If he gets the MKX knives as gear, I'm all set.

Agreed. Those look brutal af. Current ones are kinda lame except for the kukris.

 

[Circus]

I dunno man, have you seen Subzero's B2? 14f mid with similar range that launches and is -2 oB.

Call it a hunch, but I think that when the actual game comes out, that Sub's B2 won't be -2. That just sounds nuts lol. His B1 high that is the same startup and hit confirmable into Ice Ball wouldn't even need to compliment it. He would literally be able to win games just with B2.