Match-Up Discussion - Mileena Mileena Matchup Discussion

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I feel like Ravenous is more of a "player specific" MU. The damage it deals is all it really has going for it, but the overhead grab is what makes it useful. Without the throws, its essentially Ethereal, or Mil with no variation, which CAN contend ok enough, but the usual threat of EXroll during strings or after safe ones, let's you get in the low pounce. I think it's only good against a slower paced MU where you can punish the opponent in a variety of ways and thus letting you open you up when both are playing patiently. The healing (only 3% -____-) doesn't really help outside of killing time to help rebuild energy since it does less damage and can only be done on certain bnbs.

I miss her leaping bite special

I miss her old D4

 

[Akromaniac27]

I miss her old D4

Instead, the men now have it lol...the large, bulky ass men.

Btw, I love your profile pic lol

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

For more information:
Any character whose fastest armor is 11 frame must be very careful again Piercing, B1 regular roll option select can SAFELY stuff those armors easily.
Many characters whose fastest attack is 8 frame (9 frame special) has a hard time dealing with her B12. However many of them have d3/d4 that low profile under B1 (Johnny's d4 for example, it's 11 frame but he can easily use that to get out of B12 into B12). Kitana, imo has the most troubles dealing with Piercing B12, I would never choose other variations against Kitana

 

[Karnage]

I'm interested to know why Ethereal against Kitana. Is it something specific or are you just more comfortable with Ethereal in that match that you do not need to switch.

It probably is more of a comfort thing, once you are in with ethereal you can stay in and hit/block confirm everything, bait fans and punish, if not you are in at worst. Just feel ex fade is too good in the neutral against kitana

ps...is HOG still happening?

 

[Akromaniac27]

It probably is more of a comfort thing, once you are in with ethereal you can stay in and hit/block confirm everything, bait fans and punish, if not you are in at worst. Just feel ex fade is too good in the neutral against kitana

ps...is HOG still happening?

I think all of Mileena's variations have their perks in the neutral against Kitana. Piercing and Ethereal being the better ones, only that Ethereal is meter dependent. Piercing low sais go right under Kit's fans so she HAS to get in eventually, where now b12 and roll keep her from being too airborne happy. If she spaces it well, Kitana can get a relatively free jump in, but she's forced to respect the post options.

This is probably the only amazing Kitana player online (at least for Royal Storm) and one that knows the Piercing Matchup, as well as their own character. This was the ONLY player that made me consider RS vs Piercing to be 5-5 as opposed to 6-4, Mileena's favor. I still feel Mileena has the upper hand, but if you play the way this player does, KItana does actually put up a decent enough fight lol. His/her patience was amazing since most Kitanas just want to press buttons and jump, but as you can see when we're fullscreen, patience will cost Kitana the match. I got caught by so many lifts because I never expect anyone to use it upclose since its punishable especially by Mileena -__-

But that aside, it was a very eye opening set and for the wakeups, EXRising Fans is the only tricky wakeup. The others are fairly easy to time imo. Also, any Kitana player saying her jump ins suck is clearly a scrub -___- I got hit with those at ranges that didn't make any sense whatsoever:

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

It probably is more of a comfort thing, once you are in with ethereal you can stay in and hit/block confirm everything, bait fans and punish, if not you are in at worst. Just feel ex fade is too good in the neutral against kitana

ps...is HOG still happening?

Well you are the combo greedy type of players. When the game came out I spent 2 months with the worst character in the game at that time (Kitana). I learn a crucial esson: You don't need to land your combos to win. Just be patient, zone, counter poke and most importantly throw people.

 

[Karnage]

no no no ethereal is not greedy at all IMO, most of the time if you miss time ex fade for punish its 12/3 cancel into safe tele or stagger into throw. imo ethereal is supposed to be played to force mistakes on the opponents behalf, i definitely play more patiently with ethereal than i do piercing because B12 is just too good in piercing. i am really on the fence as to what variation is "better" as its situational for me at least. End of the day both variations are fun as hell...and i am glad we have 2 very very viable variations

 

[Akromaniac27]

no no no ethereal is not greedy at all IMO, most of the time if you miss time ex fade for punish its 12/3 cancel into safe tele or stagger into throw. imo ethereal is supposed to be played to force mistakes on the opponents behalf, i definitely play more patiently with ethereal than i do piercing because B12 is just too good in piercing. i am really on the fence as to what variation is "better" as its situational for me at least. End of the day both variations are fun as hell...

I would love if all of her variations were hella decent because they ARE all fun to use. Just that this game doesn't reward fun, but instead mindless, safe, midscreen-ranged normals that can be made plus into 50/50s....

I agree with how Ethereal is supposed to be played. My only problem with it aside from the meter dependence, is that a mistake can be faked and at best, Mileena can get in a throw but at the cost of a bar.

 

[Karnage]

I would love if all of her variations were hella decent because they ARE all fun to use. Just that this game doesn't reward fun, but instead mindless, safe, midscreen-ranged normals that can be made plus into 50/50s....

I agree with how Ethereal is supposed to be played. My only problem with it aside from the meter dependence, is that a mistake can be faked and at best, Mileena can get in a throw but at the cost of a bar.

i agree with you 100% on all points. don't get me wrong piercing will always be my go to but ethereal is still worth considering in certain match ups. bar for a throw is very depressing but i have to admit i have used it before haha. i think ex fade in neutral is just very good against certain characters that i mentioned above. everyone else piercing without a dout

 

[Akromaniac27]

i agree with you 100% on all points. don't get me wrong piercing will always be my go to but ethereal is still worth considering in certain match ups. bar for a throw is very depressing but i have to admit i have used it before haha. i think ex fade in neutral is just very good against certain characters that i mentioned above. everyone else piercing without a dout

Yup, for sure. I think Ethereal is great against Kobu and Flame Fist, but not a necessity. It makes the neutral and up close game significantly easier. For me, I'm just trying to grind out Piercing to see which MUs give her a genuine problem and those are the only two where it feels like a hard 5-5 since Piercing can still set the pace when she gets it going.

 

[Baconlord]

Yup, for sure. I think Ethereal is great against Kobu and Flame Fist, but not a necessity. It makes the neutral and up close game significantly easier. For me, I'm just trying to grind out Piercing to see which MUs give her a genuine problem and those are the only two where it feels like a hard 5-5 since Piercing can still set the pace when she gets it going.

I think ethereal had a lot more potential them your leading on. It's the only variation where you can make f4 completely safe which catches a lot of people if I do a run up f4 in neutral. And against someone like kotal you can get out safely and if you fade out and he goes for a sword mixup you can get a full f3 punish on whiff. And meter building has never been to much of a problem for me because I never break in this game unless I'm about to die because I don't think it's worth spending the meter and stamina.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Here's part 2 for her OKI in Piercing:

 

[Akromaniac27]

I think ethereal had a lot more potential them your leading on. It's the only variation where you can make f4 completely safe which catches a lot of people if I do a run up f4 in neutral. And against someone like kotal you can get out safely and if you fade out and he goes for a sword mixup you can get a full f3 punish on whiff. And meter building has never been to much of a problem for me because I never break in this game unless I'm about to die because I don't think it's worth spending the meter and stamina.

I hear you. That's kinda what I mean though, about the breaking lol. You have to hoard/build meter BY getting hit. For me, that's what conflicts me when trying to utilize Ethereal since it doesn't have "true" methods for building meter safely and/or efficiently.

 

[Baconlord]

I hear you. That's kinda what I mean though, about the breaking lol. You have to hoard/build meter BY getting hit. For me, that's what conflicts me when trying to utilize Ethereal since it doesn't have "true" methods for building meter safely and/or efficiently.

F12b4 on oki builds like a half a bat when blocked and stagers with 123 and f23 all help her build meter. She also gets a free fade away after a knockdown. That combined with regular sai zoning and she can build meter decently.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I feel like Ravenous is more of a "player specific" MU. The damage it deals is all it really has going for it, but the overhead grab is what makes it useful.

^This. been saying this for months. The main benefit of Low Pounce "meterless OH" is in your opponents crouch blocking habits more than character matchup. I'd like to add also, that High Pounce being safer against some characters than others can be a factor in playing certain MUs. Even then it's more preference. Piercing should still be viable in MUs where Ravenous is viable.

Also, stuffing wakeups, IMO, doesn't change a whole lot across her variations. It's easiest in Piercing, but still doable in the other two. The really super precise stuffs like EX Backflip or EX Spin/Slides are just not a big factor in most cases. (Spin/Slide is unsafe anyway if you just bait it by blocking.) It's great to know how to do it, but I don't think it completely changes many MUs in a significant way.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Yup, for sure. I think Ethereal is great against Kobu and Flame Fist

And Jax... fucking Jax.

 

[TheGabStandard]

is HOG still happening?

Likely to be 30th/31st January but will wait until after final ESL qualifier to confirm the date

 

[ZeroEffect]

I dunno about this Meterless Mileena beats Kung Lao J2 thing, guys.

 

[RicciFlow]

I didn't know Mileena can low profile Lao's b3 with a roll considering it's a mid. Moreover, she can do her roll after regular AND ex hatspin though the latter has +12 on block which in theory allows him to continue his pressure into another b321 (which is 15 frames startup). Even Cassie cannot do her flipkick there, but we can still do a regular roll in that window. That works both in a midscreen and the corner. Am I being slowpoke again and it was well known before?

 

[Jolt]

I didn't know Mileena can low profile Lao's b3 with a roll considering it's a mid. Moreover, she can do her roll after regular AND ex hatspin though the latter has +12 on block which in theory allows him to continue his pressure into another b321 (which is 15 frames startup). Even Cassie cannot do her flipkick there, but we can still do a regular roll in that window. That works both in a midscreen and the corner. Am I being slowpoke again and it was well known before?

I don't know if everyone knew, but I did lol. Mileena doesn't care about mids or highs. They have to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE mids or else she's going to just roll right under them. It's one of the things that makes her incredibly dangerous honestly. The number of times I hear "THAT WAS A MID!!!!" is hilarious. The tears from salt give me strength.

 

[RicciFlow]

I don't know if everyone knew, but I did lol. Mileena doesn't care about mids or highs. They have to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE mids or else she's going to just roll right under them. It's one of the things that makes her incredibly dangerous honestly. The number of times I hear "THAT WAS A MID!!!!" is hilarious. The tears from salt give me strength.

Another thing is the fact that she can do regular roll in a 3-frame window somehow. Isn't b3 supposed to beat it on startup?

 

[TheGabStandard]

Another thing is the fact that she can do regular roll in a 3-frame window somehow. Isn't b3 supposed to beat it on startup?

In my experience I found if perfectly timed after ex hat spin B3 will win but if a frame or so off, Roll wins.

 

[JerzeyReign]

So I played VMan on the beta and found out the hard way I need Takeda knowledge. I went in with piercing and felt bullied the entire time. Couldn't work at all. Gonna work the strings when I get home but does anyone have tips? I'll assume Ethereal is better but just wanna know if piercing has any chance at all

 

[Jolt]

So I played VMan on the beta and found out the hard way I need Takeda knowledge. I went in with piercing and felt bullied the entire time. Couldn't work at all. Gonna work the strings when I get home but does anyone have tips? I'll assume Ethereal is better but just wanna know if piercing has any chance at all

Takeda is dumb and needs to be deleted. That's my advice.

With love,

A Mileena player in a Takeda clan.

I really don't think that Ethereal does THAT MUCH better in the MU, but it can help. Main thing to decide IMO is whether you think that you're more comfortable playing it offensively or defensively.

Takeda is one of the characters that b12 actually creates a legitimate problem for, in some cases it can even break his slow armor.

The thing about Takeda and his stupid f121+2 (or whatever) thing into kunai is rarely a risk for him. If he does the full string, his options are:

close kunai (true block string) -2 on block
mid kunai (gap!) +2 on block
teleport cancel (you can try to react to it with roll)

or just abuse you while you're respecting the other options.

Lasher (which I'm assuming Vman played) is extra evil in that it can cancel the overheads into the low whip trip for additional mixups, and the EX version combos on hit. Frame data says it's -11 though, so maybe roll might punish? (The Uprise boys don't play Lasher so I haven't labbed it).

Because of all this, I personally prefer to play Piercing and bully Takeda so that he can't bully me. Once you knock him down (especially in the corner), just play it safe and keep pressing buttons. He has slow armor, so we're shredding it on every attempt. All we have to do is make sure he can't jump out. Takeda can't punish anything less than -9 (fastest normal is 8f unless that changed in beta).

Ethereal at least gets the option to EX fade through the gaps when he doesn't use close kunai, but it only moves us closer to him. It doesn't provide a punish opportunity, so in that regard I kind of feel like it's a bar wasted.

There was a time pre-Takeda buffs where he had gaps all over and thus Ethereal more or less bodied him in the MU, but those days appear to be gone. I do like Ethereal to EX fade out of EX Kunai setups though. Takes away some of the guesswork.

I know it's not the absolute best advice, but I hope I at least gave you some information to think over and help find a strategy that works for you. Maybe someone else can give better tactics that I haven't thought of, it's all reads though I think

 

[leoj89]

fought a scorpion in the beta today and got legit salty. I swear his teleport is safe now or the window to punish is extremely small. Block roll, nope. Block, uppercut,nope. Maybe d1 or d3 works but that's not optimal imo.