Match-Up Discussion - Mileena Mileena Matchup Discussion

[ZeroEffect]

How does everyone else feel about the Ethereal vs Jax matchup? I feel like EX Fade will clearly get you out of most of the corner situations with Jax. But aside from that I feel like Jax pressure just dominates and a good Jax can easily carry you to the corner and often I'm forced to play defensively.

Yeah, fighting Jax sucks.... lol. I'm of the opinion that Ethereal is the best choice for the reasons you put. But yeah his pressure is too good.

Also, wtf do people do to stop Tanya's wakeups? EX Drill is so fast and she can mix up with overhead flip. Both have armor and travel a good distance. I've spaced out some wakeup drills, but it's almost like it's not worth knocking her down.

 

[Kaneki]

Yeah, fighting Jax sucks.... lol. I'm of the opinion that Ethereal is the best choice for the reasons you put. But yeah his pressure is too good.

Also, wtf do people do to stop Tanya's wakeups? EX Drill is so fast and she can mix up with overhead flip. Both have armor and travel a good distance. I've spaced out some wakeup drills, but it's almost like it's not worth knocking her down.

For Tanya wakeups I normally just guess if its high or low but I never attempted to punish the wakeups because it just seems to fast in my point of view. Idk just having Tanya waste a bar is enough for me but it sure is a pain to deal with.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Also, wtf do people do to stop Tanya's wakeups? EX Drill is so fast and she can mix up with overhead flip. Both have armor and travel a good distance. I've spaced out some wakeup drills, but it's almost like it's not worth knocking her down.

I would like to think both can be broken with F1 if you end combos with 21U4 but will double check my notes when I get back home.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I would like to think both can be broken with F1 if you end combos with 21U4 but will double check my notes when I get back home.

Maybe. I was fighting her online as well, so maybe that's part of it. The lag wasn't too bad, but it may have been just enough.

I gotta get the timing for 21U4 down on all my combos. I'm so used to sadistics in Piercing and B22~Sai~Fade in Ethereal. That string feels almost as bad as sadistics in terms of the 2nd/3rd hits whiffing. A lot of times I get 21 and the U4 whiffs on them.

 

[Akromaniac27]

For Jax, and all MUs really tbh, I've been using Piercing, to grind it out and whatnot. In Piercing, on reaction and effective zoning in general builds me the meter I want/need to breaker a lot throughout the match. Reason being is so that I condition them that I WILL roll/EXroll between gaps, and if it gets punished, then not all is lost, but that conditioning let's me get out either an uppercut for the push back and low profile, or a grab to swap sides if I'm backed into the corner. Because of lowsai, and b12, I'm able to play from full screen to footsie range while chipping him and building meter, baiting his impatience like jumps or standing over him on knockdown forcing him to make the right call on wakeup. This MU, in a nutshell, zone him out and grab like a MF lol, and thats essentially most MUs with Piercing tbh..

.B12 just adds a layer of impatience that you can capitalize on without wasting meter, AND not only are you safe, but you are PLUS on block(and on hit you can jail them back in) and her f12 is better IMO for HKD because it isn't whiffing like in the other variations. And with some MUs, even a 21u4 ender won't guarantee blowing up their wakeup choices like someone like Tanya for example if she has meter, so having the damage boost of sadistic ways as an ender/alt helps in that aspect too

 

[ZeroEffect]

Just found out NJ beats the Drill and Flip wakeups. She can still teleport though.

For Jax, and all MUs really tbh, I've been using Piercing, to grind it out and whatnot. In Piercing, on reaction and effective zoning in general builds me the meter I want/need to breaker a lot throughout the match. Reason being is so that I condition them that I WILL roll/EXroll between gaps, and if it gets punished, then not all is lost, but that conditioning let's me get out either an uppercut for the push back and low profile, or a grab to swap sides if I'm backed into the corner. Because of lowsai, and b12, I'm able to play from full screen to footsie range while chipping him and building meter, baiting his impatience like jumps or standing over him on knockdown forcing him to make the right call on wakeup. This MU, in a nutshell, zone him out and grab like a MF lol, and thats essentially most MUs with Piercing tbh..

The problem is that Jax has 1,2 and d1,2 to beat armor as well as maintain advantage. That's why I can't imagine Piercing being that good in this match. Yeah she can chuck sais, but she'll only keep him out for so long before you're in F21/dash punch range. Imo, a good Jax WILL get in, and will push you to the corner. EX Fade to escape the corner just seems invaluable to me.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Maybe. I was fighting her online as well, so maybe that's part of it. The lag wasn't too bad, but it may have been just enough.

I gotta get the timing for 21U4 down on all my combos. I'm so used to sadistics in Piercing and B22~Sai~Fade in Ethereal. That string feels almost as bad as sadistics in terms of the 2nd/3rd hits whiffing. A lot of times I get 21 and the U4 whiffs on them.

So i just double checked and in Piercing F1 stuffs both wakeups if you end combos in sweep or 21U4, the F1 has to be slightly delayed in timing to stuff the Low Drill. in terms of Ravenous and Ethereal I couldn't stuff Low Drill with F1 after a good amount of time trying. However, s3 breaks Low Drill pretty consistently.

 

[BeastOfManila]

Any rcommended tips vs:

- scorpion: strange how as a former scorp main, i still struggle against scorp. Specifically ninjitsu shenangans( stupid frame chart...my roll cant punish f2 even upclose!!) and hf fb block strings

- new sub zero tech (http://testyourmight.com/threads/otg-ice-clone-what-have-i-done.56729/)



Note to self: yeah...i really need to learn ethereal for the jax and cage family MU. Hehe.

 

[SEN WIIISE]

@TheGabStandard Hell yeah. GM is a bih in the corner. Thnx

Spoiler

 

[ZeroEffect]

So I just found out some things about Jacqui's f2,u2,2+4 string today. This is new to the recent patch where she can do the third hit on whiff and on block now. (It used to only come out on hit). So it's +2 on block and an OH. The mixup between the OH and the Ground pound isn't hard to react to. But the GP cancel is very fast.

- It's possible to armor through a gap between the last two hits on block, but EX Roll whiffs under her and you're at major disadvantage. Full Auto can Machine gun punish from fullscreen.

- You can backdash the last hit in Shotgun and High Tech. But NOT Full Auto's. Full Auto's version shoots a rocket that hits you after the invinciblity frames end. You CAN however crouch block the second hit, and normal Roll under her safely if she's in Full Auto.

- EX Fade in place or EX Fade towards will also work in Ethereal and grant you either a Roll punish (risky as shit...) a 2,1 punish, (hard to land without hitting her out the air), or the best option, anti-air D1. You can fade through the rocket and juggle her with d1~f2,3~Roll... etc.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Going to lab this character soon but incase anyone knows, what in the world do you do against Ferra/Torr?

 

[ZeroEffect]

Going to lab this character soon but incase anyone knows, what in the world do you do against Ferra/Torr?

Good luck. I've been asking about this MU for months. The only answer I was able to come up with is you die.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Good luck. I've been asking about this MU for months. The only answer I was able to come up with is you die.

Just played against a few recently, and felt lost. I'm sure there is something but Lackey seems like it can just sit and D1 you all day.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Just played against a few recently, and felt lost. I'm sure there is something but Lackey seems like it can just sit and D1 you all day.

I never fought Lackey, but fought a few Vicious. Seems rough, and you can barely punish anything. My Ferra/Torr Punish guide will probably be 30 seconds long, lol.

 

[Jolt]

Going to lab this character soon but incase anyone knows, what in the world do you do against Ferra/Torr?

Lab it and let me know what you find. I personally struggle in the Kotal matchup (literally all variations, even no variation lol) I could lab it with Mileena, but I'm actually going to be learning Ferra/Torr for it instead.

So as I take the time to learn Ferra/Torr, I'll definitely keep everyone posted if I find anything that helps Mileena in the MU. Looking at frames alone though, it doesn't look good for her lol

 

[JDE]

After getting more experience against some good players, I can tell that she's going to have issues against the following:
Raiden
Scorpion
Jax.
Sub-Zero

I'm not just going by 1 or 2 variations. I'm talking all of them. All 4 of them have the frames to where she doesn't want to be in their faces, but that's not why I think she's going have issues. It's the fact that they have ways to bypass any kind of range game right that instant. Mileena has a certain comfort zone that she has to play & it's not at the back of the screen. It's just in character length (sweeping distance). From there, to just right outside of it, but she also doesn't want to play in your face.

Scorpion's footsies are amazing. They are a lot better than what players believe. Just like Mileena, he plays right within character length for the most part, but he's wanting to be upclose more than playing back off of people. He wants to use D1, D2, D3, & D4 to get his advantage & then pressure. If he's not D4 range, his F3, B3, 21, & B12 are whiff punishers that can be cancelled into combos. B3 in general is a starting low mixup string, which is awesome in this game.

Most of Scorpion's players are going play Inferno & Hellfire. Hellfire he doesn't have as much in range, but he can chuck his fireball out to test your response. He has his teleport to keep her in check, but of course it can be baited into a punish. However, that's easier said than done because he can also delay the teleport & then block your reaction to him getting to the other side of the screen after you've recovered from throwing a sai. Also, keep in mind that just like his teleport "can be baited", so can Mileena's sais. The teleport punch will punish her for throwing them carelessly.

Another thing that will punish Mileena is his leg takedown. So if she's throwing a standing sai, then expect to be taken down with BF4, which is also a whiff punisher (just not as good as the other options since it's riskier). Another thing that you will have to watch for with Scorpion are his hellfire, & his minion tools. Hellfire is not blockable, but Minion grab is. If you duck or jump, then he's hitting you with his minion drop. If you stand still, he's going to find a way to hit you with his charging minion. Now he doesn't have to land a hit on you. He just wants you to respond to it, run in & then come & get you. She does have ball roll to keep him in check, so he'll think twice about doing it. Sais as well, but he will find a way to come & get you is the main point. Whether it be him coming in after you respond or be using his teleport & having to delay it.

I'll explain the other's later on. I didn't want to make a TL;DR post.

I just copied onto this, because I've gotten more info on Scorpion. This is still 6-4 in Scorpion's favor in 2 variations (Hellfire, Inferno). Not sure if I stated this before but forgive me if I did. His FA whiff punishes her ball roll if he see that you're going into it. He still has B3 xxFBRCxx, 214 xxFBRCxx, 21xxFBRCxx & B12 xxFBRCxx tools. 214 FBRC still forces you to guess so you're still not wanting to just aimless guess after it unless he does it in a predictable sense.

Ninjitsu is a variation that people downplay because he doesn't have the F2 overhead in this variation, but in variation, none of that matters if you have the right tools to pressure & play footsies. Which is why his D4 & B3 exists. This variation also gives him pretty decent options to deal with wake ups & a good NJP, which gives him another good air to air besides his ji3. So have to worry about him hitting you out of your armor AND his vortex. F2 being one of his best options when you're knockdown. He gets a full combo from it. SO he definitely can switch his game up & play you any way that he chooses. Most players would expect him to make you keep guessing from the vortex. It also has gotten better with his damage, too. Since he's gotten height increase with his B2 (which relaunches in combos), he's getting up to 34% or more. This variation is 5-5 for Mileena only because he doesn't have quite the mixups & the 50/50s that he has in inferno & hellfire, but if we were going by decimals, I would give 5.5-4.5.

For inferno, not too many people know this, but his minion charge can be just as good as his teleport punch ender for a combo despite what the frame data says about it. The sequence gives him an almost guaranteed throw because once you get hit by the minion, you're stumbling & you don't have much time to block, bracing for his next move. His B3 also becomes an issue to deal with once the minion hits. Just you have a bit more time to react to it.

 

[TheGabStandard]

@MyronJ haven't fully labbed Kotal but starting point is F2 is punishable by s2 (not Roll) and in War God a few of his strings into 50/50 swords can be interrupted with regular Roll. Can't remember which ones and its all a read but it is a start. I still hate that MU as well

 

[GQJ]

Just found out NJ beats the Drill and Flip wakeups. She can still teleport though.


The problem is that Jax has 1,2 and d1,2 to beat armor as well as maintain advantage. That's why I can't imagine Piercing being that good in this match. Yeah she can chuck sais, but she'll only keep him out for so long before you're in F21/dash punch range. Imo, a good Jax WILL get in, and will push you to the corner. EX Fade to escape the corner just seems invaluable to me.

Did you mean d1,d2 here? Cant find d1,2

 

[ZeroEffect]

Did you mean d1,d2 here? Cant find d1,2

Yeah that. The double crouch jab. I hold the down button so I just hit D12, lol

 

[ZeroEffect]

So is Scorpion's/Ermac's wakeup EX teleport just impossible to counter? I know you can't stuff it well with F12, but I couldn't jump away, NJP, or low profile it seemed. I was in a chip situation so blocking wasn't possible.

 

[TheGabStandard]

So is Scorpion's/Ermac's wakeup EX teleport just impossible to counter? I know you can't stuff it well with F12, but I couldn't jump away, NJP, or low profile it seemed. I was in a chip situation so blocking wasn't possible.

Ermac's leaves the screen slower so can be broke with F12 but the window is small, wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar to stuffing 6-7f wakeups.

As for the tech for countering wake-up teleport I did PM you something not too long ago

 

[ZeroEffect]

Ermac's leaves the screen slower so can be broke with F12 but the window is small, wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar to stuffing 6-7f wakeups.

As for the tech for countering wake-up teleport I did PM you something not too long ago

Lol yeah I looked back at it to see if I missed something. But I didn't get a 21u4 KND, just an AA Uppercut. So I ran in and tried to do D3 to maybe low profile and nope, lol.

I was fighting Scorpion.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Lol yeah I looked back at it to see if I missed something. But I didn't get a 21u4 KND, just an AA Uppercut. So I ran in and tried to do D3 to maybe low profile and nope, lol.

I was fighting Scorpion.

Ah ok, unless you do 21U4 or sweep as a knockdown, the chances of countering wakeup teleport are pretty slim

 

[Yoaks]

I've recently dropped Mileena in favor for Ferra Torr. So I'll chime in with a little mu knowledge.

In Vicious/Ruthless you can ex roll/ex fade when the FT does b121*gap*Ferra Toss (Overhead Ferra Throw) and is +6 on block but you can not armor b121 xx Bowl Girl (Low Ferra) but Bowl Girl is negative on block. You can not however armor b12 Ferra Toss or b12 Bowl Girl. And when Ferra is thrown Torr gains Lackeys d1 until Ferra is back on Torrs back. This is key because the Ferra Torr can't loop the b12 Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl mixup because Ferra won't get back on Torrs back in time after he throws her. So he has to do b121. You just have to guess Overhead/Low/PnG or a bait if the opponent thinks you'll armor. b1212 is mid, mid, mid, overhead btw.

Watch out and be wary of what level Torr is on Pain and Gain (Look at Torrs arms. The more blood dripping down the higher the lvl) in Ruthless. On lvl 2 if the opponent does Pain and Gain but doesnt cancel Torr has enough armor to absorb all hits of ex roll and recover and punish for about uuhhh 55% meterless combo. Yea. I know. This character is bottom 5.

Anyways. I would go Ethereal against Vicious/Ruthless and Piercing against Lackey.

The only way I see Mileena having a shot in this mu is getting an early knockdown. Torr's backdash isn't all that great and they're armored wakeups across all variations can be broken by Mileenas f12. Other that. I don't see how Mileena can compete with FT's tools. Better normals, high and METERLESS damage, always has meter and wins the zoning war in both Ruthless/Vicious.

 

[TheGabStandard]

I've recently dropped Mileena in favor for Ferra Torr. So I'll cime in with a little mu knowledge.

In Vicious/Ruthless you can ex roll/ex fade when the FT does b121*gap*Ferra Toss (Overhead Ferra Throw) and is +6 on block but you can not armor b121 xx Bowl Girl (Low Ferra) but Bowl Girl is negative on block. You can not however armor b12 Ferra Toss or b12 Bowl Girl. And when Ferra is thrown Torr gains Lackeys d1 until Ferra is back on Torrs back. This is key because the Ferra Torr can't loop the b12 Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl mixup because Ferra won't get back on Torrs back in time after he throws her. So he has to do b121. You just have to guess Overhead/Low/PnG or a bait if the opponent thinks you'll armor. b1212 is mid, mid, mid, overhead btw.

Watch out and be wary of what level Torr is on Pain and Gain (Look at Torrs arms. The more blood dripping down the higher the lvl) in Ruthless. On lvl 2 if the opponent does Pain and Gain but doesnt cancel Torr has enough armor to absorb all hits of ex roll and recover and punish for about uuhhh 55% meterless combo. Yea. I know. This character is bottom 5.

Anyways. I would go Ethereal against Vicious/Ruthless and Piercing against Lackey.

The only way I see Mileena having a shot in this mu is getting an early knockdown. Torr's backdash isn't all that great and there armored wakeups across all variations can be broken by Mileenas f12. Other that. I don't see how Mileena can compete with FT's tools. Better normals, high and METERLESS damage, always has meter and wins the zoning war in both Ruthless/Vicious.

This info is much appreciated. I have been wondering about this match and so far I haven't found anything great yet. However, this is a good start for those looking to break the match down