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Match-Up Discussion - Mileena Mileena Matchup Discussion

ZeroEffect

Warrior
This character is bottom 5.

Anyways. I would go Ethereal against Vicious/Ruthless and Piercing against Lackey.

The only way I see Mileena having a shot in this mu is getting an early knockdown. Torr's backdash isn't all that great and there armored wakeups across all variations can be broken by Mileenas f12. Other that. I don't see how Mileena can compete with FT's tools. Better normals, high and METERLESS damage, always has meter and wins the zoning war in both Ruthless/Vicious.
Why. Is. This. Character. So. SAFE? lol.

You can regular Roll through that gap into Overhead Toss too I think. I'll have to double check if it's the same string you're talking about.
 
So what do we do against Quan Chi? Summoner Quan is one of the most annoying (if not THE most annoying) MUs for me so far. Good zoning, 6f pokes, safe 50/50s (by ending strings with ex rune, which is +14 on block and can also be comboed off of on hit if upclose) and his vortex which doesn't need introductions. Fought them before (not many of them out there though), but recently met a decent one online and got really frustrated :c
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
More or less have to hold everything unfortunately. If you guess right and block trance, punish with your most damaging F3 combo. Usually against Quan once i knock him down i try my best to stay on top of him for as long as i can, especially paying attention on what he does on wakeup (eg if he backdashes a lot use B12 on wakeup)
 

GQJ

Noob
More or less have to hold everything unfortunately. If you guess right and block trance, punish with your most damaging F3 combo. Usually against Quan once i knock him down i try my best to stay on top of him for as long as i can, especially paying attention on what he does on wakeup (eg if he backdashes a lot use B12 on wakeup)
Any spacing tips?
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Any spacing tips?
Stay as far away as possible lol. On a serious note i play quite risky and hover around max range of Quan's B2. Reason being it has a lot of recovery so making it whiff is a free Roll punish which gets you the knockdown to turn the match in your favour.

Whether that is the best place to play is up for debate. It might be better to stay full screen and punish projectiles with Tele/EX Tele and go from there
 
Reactions: GQJ

GQJ

Noob
Stay as far away as possible lol. On a serious note i play quite risky and hover around max range of Quan's B2. Reason being it has a lot of recovery so making it whiff is a free Roll punish which gets you the knockdown to turn the match in your favour.

Whether that is the best place to play is up for debate. It might be better to stay full screen and punish projectiles with Tele/EX Tele and go from there
Quan doesn't have great normals up close as well, like half starting distance. I would think the Quan player has to be careful throwing out b2s without meter.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
So is Scorpion's/Ermac's wakeup EX teleport just impossible to counter? I know you can't stuff it well with F12, but I couldn't jump away, NJP, or low profile it seemed. I was in a chip situation so blocking wasn't possible.
Their teleports if cancelled actually are safe since they have enough time to recover & block (depending on how fast your move is), but if you're referring to them actually making contact & then blocking them, then they're unsafe, just hard to react to them online.
 

ZeroEffect

Warrior
Their teleports if cancelled actually are safe since they have enough time to recover & block (depending on how fast your move is), but if you're referring to them actually making contact & then blocking them, then they're unsafe, just hard to react to them online.
Nah I could punish them just fine, but in this case, I was gonna get chipped out. That's why I was wondering if I was just guaranteed screwed, or if I could've have done something to evade/counter the move
 
So is Scorpion's/Ermac's wakeup EX teleport just impossible to counter? I know you can't stuff it well with F12, but I couldn't jump away, NJP, or low profile it seemed. I was in a chip situation so blocking wasn't possible.
Late reply but I figured out what you can do against their teleport wake-ups, it will cost a bar though and is slightly risky and won't save you from being chipped.

The idea is that f1 can be ex-special cancelled even on whiff so you can input f1-(reverse)exroll-3 and if they teleport the ex-roll will come out whilst the -8 string will be there to finish if they don't teleport.

http://plays.tv/video/5655304f9e062895e0 this is what I'm trying to explain. Its a weird timing to get used to doing but its something to help in that matchup.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
are there any matchups that you feel one variation has distinct advantages over another one. for example I will always go piercing against bone shaper because I feel that b12 allows me to play outside of f4 range and low sai does wonders at full screen, but I think ethereal is the go to against erron black because his buttons are kind of meh so I feel confident playing footsies without b12 and ex fade does wonders to get out of pressure.

@TheGabStandard
@ZeroEffect
@YOMI RM SaltFace
@UsedForGlue
@MyronJ
@EMPEROR_SunFire
@Akromaniac27
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EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Ethereal:
Against anyone with great rushdown, hard to stuff wake-ups and those that B12 and low sai in Piercing are worthless against.
- Cassie
- Lao
- Jax
- Tanya
- Kotal Kahn
- Takeda
- Quan Chi
- Goro
- Sonya
- Kano
- Raiden

Piercing:
Against anyone that can easily evade regular sai (slides or projectiles that trade in their favor), those that can't do much about low sai, bad/easily stuffable wake-ups and those whom she can compete in footsies against.
- Sub-Zero
- Reptile
- Kitana
- Liu Kang
- D'vorah
- Erron Black
- Predator
- Tremor
- Ferra/Torr
- Jacqui
- Johnny Cage
- Kenshi
- Shinnok
- Kung Jin

Ravenous:
Actually I feel like Ravenous is the best pick against characters that you mostly have to bait and punish, they don't have pressure so Etheral is not necessary, they either have footsies you can't compete against with B12 in Piercing (Ninjutsu Scorpion) or have meh footsies, and have hard to stuff wake ups so Piercing is also worthless.
The thing they have in common is that they have a lot of punisheable stuff and these MUs are all about punishing the wrong reads from both players, since Mileena is just as unsafe. And Ravenous has the most damaging combos out of her 3 variations, so her punishes will hurt more and she can position her oponents and her healing is also very helpfull in these MUs.
- Ermac
- Scorpion
- Jason
- Mileena

I'm actually not 100% sure about D'vorah, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr and Sonya's positions but I guess they all can be handled by Piercing and Etheral.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Against anyone with great rushdown, hard to stuff wake-ups and those that B12 and low sai in Piercing are worthless against.
There are only 2 wakeups Piercing can't stuff: Kano ex Upball and Scorpion ex teleport (and yea Ethereal ex fade of course, but it belongs to Mileena). Everything else, including Cassie's invincible nut punch, can be SAFELY stuffed ONLY by Piercing
Kitana's ex thoat slice is actually the 3rd most annoying wake up. The problem is that she's airborne and it's almost impossible to convert anything after breaking her armor
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
There are only 2 wakeups Piercing can't stuff: Kano ex Upball and Scorpion ex teleport (and yea Ethereal ex fade of course, but it belongs to Mileena). Everything else, including Cassie's invincible nut punch, can be SAFELY stuffed ONLY by Piercing
Kitana's ex thoat slice is actually the 3rd most annoying wake up. The problem is that she's airborne and it's almost impossible to convert anything after breaking her armor
Scorpion's can be kinda stuffed with B12 xx telekick after ending a combo with 21U4. B1 will whiff but 2 hits the armour with telekick auto correcting to knock Scorpion out of his teleport. It also leaves him standing so you have all those plus frames to work with. However, I haven't heard/seen a way to stuff Cassie's nutpunch. Care to share? :D
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
There are only 2 wakeups Piercing can't stuff: Kano ex Upball and Scorpion ex teleport (and yea Ethereal ex fade of course, but it belongs to Mileena). Everything else, including Cassie's invincible nut punch, can be SAFELY stuffed ONLY by Piercing
Kitana's ex thoat slice is actually the 3rd most annoying wake up. The problem is that she's airborne and it's almost impossible to convert anything after breaking her armor
Honestly some wake-ups are veeery hard hard to stuff like EX flipkick, EX spin, EX slides, Kano's upball and Ermac's/Scorpion's teleports. (Out of Piercing's B21 2+4) she can stuff them all out of 21U4 or F234. And honestly why would you bother trying to stuff any of those wake-ups after B21 2+4?

Also to stuff the airborne wake-ups Mileena can do F143, you can read they will wake-up and stuff it with that string.
 

Karnage

Ancestors give me Strength!!
Will always pick Ethereal over Piercing against Predator, Reptile, Sonya, Kitana, Tanya, Quan and Kotal off the top of my head...still not sure on the dvorah MU feel like piercing out spaces her...if i know i can outspace a character i will always pick piercing
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Will always pick Ethereal over Piercing against Predator, Reptile, Sonya, Kitana, Tanya, Quan and Kotal off the top of my head...still not sure on the dvorah MU feel like piercing out spaces her...if i know i can outspace a character i will always pick piercing
I'm interested to know why Ethereal against Kitana. Is it something specific or are you just more comfortable with Ethereal in that match that you do not need to switch.
 
I haven't heard/seen a way to stuff Cassie's nutpunch. Care to share? :D
Can't stuff it but on knockdown you can do a standing 1 (to bait out a reversal) and instantly njp thats safe against flipick and punishes nutpunch, kind of yolo though but in that matchup everything is risky anyway.

Actually just did some testing and you can safely armour break it by doing s1 xx ex-roll from any distance after knockdown, this isn't safe against flipkick but you can make it safe by backing up first.

So if you know and believe they're going to ex-nutpunch you don't have to move back after knockdown but by not moving back you're putting yourself at risk of being hit by flipkick. Its not great but at least its an option.

http://plays.tv/video/567f7fa1b2537f86b5

Akromaniacs video is the same principle but way better, not sure if his works of b212+4 ender against Cassie though.
 
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Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
Scorpion's can be kinda stuffed with B12 xx telekick after ending a combo with 21U4. B1 will whiff but 2 hits the armour with telekick auto correcting to knock Scorpion out of his teleport. It also leaves him standing so you have all those plus frames to work with. However, I haven't heard/seen a way to stuff Cassie's nutpunch. Care to share? :D
Its in the B1 OKI video. That, and everything else can be stuffed with Piercings f12b4.

That aside, I would go Piercing all day against every character and variation. The ONLY MUs that I would "consider" switching would be against Kobu Tanya and Flame Fist Liu Kang. Everyone else, Piercing has all the tools to at the very least go even with, if not win the MU.

Piercing IS her most versatile variation because you have options everywhere on the screen and you can opt whether to use meter or not. Its the only variation where you gain safe and plus frames along with new strings that have more range than the other variations. It also gives you your best METERLESS oki that the other two can't provide.

The thing is, this game is full of long ranged bs and its very meter dependent. With Ethereal, your momentum will only get you as far as your meter goes which WILL run out quickly against an experienced player. I've watched a lot of Ethereal footage and noticed that half of the meter gained is from getting hit lol...that's not exactly a situation you want to be in. EX Fade has its uses and tech, there's no denying that, but from my experience, there's no need for the variation except for the two MUs I listed, unless you just like the variation itself.

You guys need to understand that the 50/50 fest isn't a "Mileena problem" that gets fixed with EXFade. You're still going to be guessing every fairly safe coin flip, so knowing what can be punished WITHOUT EXFade should be your first priority IMO. Every character has to take the mixups, however most are able to keep the opponent at bay with their range, which is why I feel Piercing is your better option for this.

And lastly, Piercing is the only variation where you can keep the opponent standing and keep jailing them for no meter. Its the only variation where you CAN lock continually loop and punish the opponent for trying to press buttons and/or backdash as well as trying to use armor in several cases.
 
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Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
This is the B1 OKI tech and I haven't even put up the video where you can have a 4-way guess after a 21u4 knockdown that will not only blow up wakeups, but can also reverse/fuck up inputs as well as reverse wakeups. The 4-way guess is only for Piercing too.


And this is a set I just had against EMPEROR_CROOKED. This is quite literally my first genuine Jason experience and throughout the set, I was trying to see what exactly would Ethereal be able to do.

 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
Ethereal:
Against anyone with great rushdown, hard to stuff wake-ups and those that B12 and low sai in Piercing are worthless against.
- Cassie
- Lao
- Jax
- Tanya
- Kotal Kahn
- Takeda
- Quan Chi
- Goro
- Sonya
- Kano
- Raiden

Piercing:
Against anyone that can easily evade regular sai (slides or projectiles that trade in their favor), those that can't do much about low sai, bad/easily stuffable wake-ups and those whom she can compete in footsies against.
- Sub-Zero
- Reptile
- Kitana
- Liu Kang
- D'vorah
- Erron Black
- Predator
- Tremor
- Ferra/Torr
- Jacqui
- Johnny Cage
- Kenshi
- Shinnok
- Kung Jin

Ravenous:
Actually I feel like Ravenous is the best pick against characters that you mostly have to bait and punish, they don't have pressure so Etheral is not necessary, they either have footsies you can't compete against with B12 in Piercing (Ninjutsu Scorpion) or have meh footsies, and have hard to stuff wake ups so Piercing is also worthless.
The thing they have in common is that they have a lot of punisheable stuff and these MUs are all about punishing the wrong reads from both players, since Mileena is just as unsafe. And Ravenous has the most damaging combos out of her 3 variations, so her punishes will hurt more and she can position her oponents and her healing is also very helpfull in these MUs.
- Ermac
- Scorpion
- Jason
- Mileena

I'm actually not 100% sure about D'vorah, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr and Sonya's positions but I guess they all can be handled by Piercing and Etheral.
I feel like Mileena wins the Kotal MU, except for Sun God, there she's even. The other two, she can more than hold her own in Piercing but Kotal is Kotal. I think Blood God is his worst go to since she can zone him out all day long and he can't wakeup once she knocks him down. She will literally always have a bar in this MU to force respect.

Against Cassie, I think its a 5-5, but not a HARD 5-5. Cassie has to work her way in and if you play the turtling Piercing right, you'll have meter, at least a bar, in most cases TWO, by the time she reaches you so she can't be brain dead happy. Also, Mileena can exploit her gaps and keep her honest with b12, plus she can oki Cassie, even in Hollywood with EXnutpunch OR just punish on block anyways. She hits just as hard as Cassie and can continually throw her back full screen and chip her out in the process.

Against Quan, everyone is guessing not just Mileena, however, in Piercing, she CAN lock him down once she knocks him down since he has no armor and his d1 is JUST outside of b12 range. A block trance also gets us a full f343 punish. In this MU, you actually want to be on top on him and terrorize him to make a careless jump so you can AA him with a roll, or other choice of your choosing.

Takeda has gaps that EXroll can stuff, and he literally can't wake up, not even in Ronin. His slow armor also makes it a similar take as to how you'd deal with Quan as well as the fact that his specials are unsafe on block, so he HAS to take it slow and steady or else she's putting him in the corner and gg.

Against Jax, low sais actually become incredibly useful pretty much for the same reasons as against Cassie. You're building meter while chipping him, and until he gets close, you can use this time to test their movement between the two sais. EXroll doesn't get its armor broken outside of 11 in which a regular roll will beat out that option, so once you force him to respect your options, you WILL notice them play slower. Like.with Quan, its a coin flip no one can do anything about, but at least if you blocked the overhead punch, you get a full combo. Jax too, cannot wakeup against Piercing.

Lao I feel is pretty dead even. Mileena can oki him and/or bait specials and movement which she can punish all on reaction or on block. Upclose, he's taking as much risk doing EXspin, just like our risk in doing a roll in this MU. They keep each other very honest and do the same damage. They both have roughly the same OKI game and have a full screen presence. What keeps this from being in his favor IMO is the fact that we can punish everything he can do with roll, a tele, EXroll, and through proper spacing with b12 for +30% into the same loop, not even counting the chip done throughout the match, or throws.

Goro, I need more experience on, but it feels even. You can tele on reaction to his tele and beat it every time for a punish and upclose, EXroll will stop his pressure. Expunchwalk can be jumped over on knockdown or otherwise and without meter, he's about as helpless as Quan is. Force him to use his meter and you'll find yourself having a significantly easier time. Even with meter, he DOES run out eventually and fairly quickly and then its your turn.

Sonya, also its just guessing the 50/50, but you can zone her out AND whiff punish her or punish her on block. She also can't wakeup and needs to play cautiously against b12. Her b2 (I think, the overhead starter) CAN be reacted upon with EXroll for a full combo so keep her on her toes with this and she won't be nearly as hasty as she usually is. Her energy blast is practically useless since low sai not only traders but causes it to go right over us.

With Kano, I feel that Piercing makes it even since it becomes a footsie war. Cybernetic is the more problematic once simply because his projectiles are mids and can be used as plus frames. Roll goes under them though. In terms of damage, they're both dead even as well as with the oki. So long as he has a bar, which he will ONLY really have at most in a lot of situations, we have to respect the upball, but this also means you can bait it out. Even if blocked and there's no punish, Kano with no meter has very few threats and on knockdown, must guess like everyone else and take the pressure.

Kobu Tanya is just retarded and deserves to get nerfed to INJ Scorpion status. The gaps can be EXrolled and we can punish everything that is punishable on block with b12 or roll, but she's just a walking 50/50 with no thought process. She doesn't even need rekkas, she can just use her normals. Ethereal is a better choice for the fact that it will evade Tanyas armor breaking rekka, but you HAVE to play keep away as much as possible. With Piercing you have to mix in the two since lowsais go under tonfas and upclose, Tanya can't wakeup either.
 
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Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
Ethereal:
Against anyone with great rushdown, hard to stuff wake-ups and those that B12 and low sai in Piercing are worthless against.
- Cassie
- Lao
- Jax
- Tanya
- Kotal Kahn
- Takeda
- Quan Chi
- Goro
- Sonya
- Kano
- Raiden

Piercing:
Against anyone that can easily evade regular sai (slides or projectiles that trade in their favor), those that can't do much about low sai, bad/easily stuffable wake-ups and those whom she can compete in footsies against.
- Sub-Zero
- Reptile
- Kitana
- Liu Kang
- D'vorah
- Erron Black
- Predator
- Tremor
- Ferra/Torr
- Jacqui
- Johnny Cage
- Kenshi
- Shinnok
- Kung Jin

Ravenous:
Actually I feel like Ravenous is the best pick against characters that you mostly have to bait and punish, they don't have pressure so Etheral is not necessary, they either have footsies you can't compete against with B12 in Piercing (Ninjutsu Scorpion) or have meh footsies, and have hard to stuff wake ups so Piercing is also worthless.
The thing they have in common is that they have a lot of punisheable stuff and these MUs are all about punishing the wrong reads from both players, since Mileena is just as unsafe. And Ravenous has the most damaging combos out of her 3 variations, so her punishes will hurt more and she can position her oponents and her healing is also very helpfull in these MUs.
- Ermac
- Scorpion
- Jason
- Mileena

I'm actually not 100% sure about D'vorah, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr and Sonya's positions but I guess they all can be handled by Piercing and Etheral.
I feel like Ravenous is more of a "player specific" MU. The damage it deals is all it really has going for it, but the overhead grab is what makes it useful. Without the throws, its essentially Ethereal, or Mil with no variation, which CAN contend ok enough, but the usual threat of EXroll during strings or after safe ones, let's you get in the low pounce. I think it's only good against a slower paced MU where you can punish the opponent in a variety of ways and thus letting you open you up when both are playing patiently. The healing (only 3% -____-) doesn't really help outside of killing time to help rebuild energy since it does less damage and can only be done on certain bnbs.

I miss her leaping bite special :(