Martian Manhunter My honest thoughts

[Relaxedstate]

I love watching Jupiter and REO play. Even when Jupiter bodies me, there is always a part where I am just impressed. MMH is a difficult character to play, and it takes a player with S-Tier skill to control the charecter with S-Tier potential.

Also, OH teleport is actually one of his biggest weaknesses since it opens him up to B3 combo damage. (Why I also think orbs are his best tool). This is how I beat the more naive MMHs since they believe OH tele is a win button (It is not).

 

[Pan1cMode]

Correct MMH players do not win solely because of their character, Batgirl players win because of their character

Lol you play Frost, get over yourself.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Correct MMH players do not win solely because of their character, Batgirl players win because of their character

Furthermore BG has issues

 

[REO]

Yes they are both fantastic players... but how can you guys sit here and still say MMH isn't broken with all the ridiculous points Pig has pointed out before his praising of REO and Jupiter? Scorpions teleport was not NEARLY as bad as the points Pig has pointed out.

MMH is broken. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out or a high end courtroom to declare it as true. The ridiculous potential of the character was called out on day one after the final patch.

Broken to me (The FGC term, not the technical term) just means retarded character design, ludicrous special moves, and quite possibly no weakness or completely even rival to the character. I don't look at broken as "OMG NEEDS INSTANT BAN AND 10-0S EVERYONE". Broken is beatable.

Semi-Broken are characters that dominate a large portion of the cast but then lose to some characters.

Bannable is a completely different story. Bannable is what you use to describe characters that 10-0 everyone or are just too strong they cannot lose once you reach a certain level.

I don't care if he gets to keep his broken orbs. I just can't stand tele, trait and MB pillars.

His teleport has several problems;

- It's safety
- The fact it's an aerial punishment
- It's tracking capability
- It's splash hitbox
- The fact it doesn't require meter
- The fact it leads to 35%+ combos

Trait also has several problems:

- Gives him godlike footsies
- Long ranged 5/6 frame moves that lead into full combo and are safe on block
- Trait~3 ._.
- Long duration
- Short cool down

MB pillar problems:

- Safe on block
- Tracks so well
- Hits all the way to the sky (will knock BG out of tele)
- Leads to full combo from anywhere on screen.

Let MMH keep his orb bullshit. They're only really a massive problem in conjunction with his other tools anyways. You can zone me out with orbs and pillars, but when I get in I shouldn't get outfootsied by your trait then knocked back full screen to rinse and repeat. If they were to tone down the three tools I mentioned he'd still probably be top 5 if not no. 1, but several of his MUs would become even. Of course I know you understand all this, just laying out my thoughts for everyone to see.

You're severely underrated Orbs. They aren't just used for zoning. They bait movement, create set ups, can put you in "do or die" situations, fuel his pressure and rushdown game, set up barricades for guaranteed interactables, bait wake-ups, create unclashable combos, build a ton of meter, cover your ass in many situations, etc. etc.

Now I'm not saying a lot of his other moves aren't ridiculous. Obviously MMH is not a one trick pony. He has access to a plethora of bullshit moves. I'm just saying Orbs are his most underrated asset. I feel like you NEED play as MMH and get to a certain level where you understand and have his "Orb Meta" down to truly comprehend. Too many players don't understand the mindgame and yomi levels of placing a orb on the screen and reading your opponent's movements and reactions. Banking and milking orbs in the neutral situations is fucked up.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I love watching Jupiter and REO play. Even when Jupiter bodies me, there is always a part where I am just impressed. MMH is a difficult character to play, and it takes a player with S-Tier skill to control the charecter with S-Tier potential.

Also, OH teleport is actually one of his biggest weaknesses since it opens him up to B3 combo damage. (Why I also think orbs are his best tool). This is how I beat the more naive MMHs since they believe OH tele is a win button (It is not).

Orbs open up pillars and pillars open up oh teles

This is a hard concept for most to grasp , you're right it all begins w orbs. If all the MMH player does is trying to dictate the MU w oh tele and not methodical orbs and zoning then one of his greatest tools becomes a huge weakness

 

[DevilMaySpy]

What top tier has ever been "easy mode" pickup-and-see-results-with to play? .

Pre patch Superman.

 

[Chuckychuck]

I don't see a problem with easy to learn characters being top tier. I also don't see a problem with characters having an execution barrier in order to outperform the easy to learn top tier characters. It makes sense and players with the skill required to play and succeed with such advanced characters should be rewarded with freedom and power.

The last thing a intelligent player with high dexterity wants is d1~trident rush. It's boring and is an insult to their capabilities. Give them shit like what MMH has and all of a sudden you will gifted with beautiful game play both as a spectator and as their opponent! Every time I see Jupiter and REO pull off comebacks or messed up hit confirms on the fly to orbs I am shocked and appalled at their ability to do so. It is a real treat to watch their level of play.

In fact, I am so greatly impressed not only by high display of skill on part of the MMH player but also the opponent who is capable of hanging in their and putting up a fight. Watching the opponent of any truly skilled MMH player is also a great display of skill. Going up against a MMH of Jupiter and REO's caliber is no fucking joke.

We should not be complaining about MMH, instead we should be appreciating the talent and give them a fucking standing ovation after every nail biting match that they present to us on stream.

 

[REO]

Pre patch Superman.

He lost to Scorpion and had his matches that forced him to work like Black Adam, Wonder Woman, and Batman. That's how I felt on the character back then anyway before the EVO patch.

 

[Pan1cMode]

MMH is broken. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out or a high end courtroom to declare it as true. The ridiculous potential of the character was called out on day one after the final patch.

Broken to me (The FGC term, not the technical term) just means retarded character design, ludicrous special moves, and quite possibly no weakness or completely even rival to the character. I don't look at broken as "OMG NEEDS INSTANT BAN AND 10-0S EVERYONE". Broken is beatable.

Semi-Broken are characters that dominate a large portion of the cast but then lose to some characters.

Bannable is a completely different story. Bannable is what you use to describe characters that 10-0 everyone or are just too strong they cannot lose once you reach a certain level.



You're severely underrated Orbs. They aren't just used for zoning. They bait movement, create set ups, can put you in "do or die" situations, fuel his pressure and rushdown game, set up barricades for guaranteed interactables, bait wake-ups, create unclashable combos, build a ton of meter, cover your ass in many situations, etc. etc.

Now I'm not saying a lot of his other moves aren't ridiculous. Obviously MMH is not a one trick pony. He has access to a plethora of bullshit moves. I'm just saying Orbs are his most underrated asset. I feel like you NEED play as MMH and get to a certain level where you understand and have his "Orb Meta" down to truly comprehend. Too many players don't understand the mindgame and yomi levels of placing a orb on the screen and reading your opponent's movements and reactions. Banking and milking orbs in the neutral situations is fucked up.

I understand all that, I still feel that if his trait, tele and pillar were nerfed, Orbs wouldn't be as good. I don't think they need a direct nerf as such (maybe making them disappear on hit? Or increasing startup time? Or reducing block advantage of MB orbs to that of Zatanna's fireball?). If NRS were to nerf MMH in a final patch (LBSH, they won't) I wouldn't want them to completely destroy his orb game cause that's part of what makes him unique. In nerfing his other tools, he still gets to keep his ridiculous orb game, but the consequences of that aren't as bad.

 

[Mikemetroid]

moved to MMH forum, because well...its about MMH.

 

[trustinme]

thank you overlord mike metroid

 

[oP Twist]

So a character with a free 50/50 after each knockdown, free interactable after almost every combo, gets 40% damage into either a free interactable or 50/50, has some of the best zoning in the game, builds meter 24/7, has one of the best wakeups in the game, has a j1 that can be very ambiguous and is +21, he doesn't have a bad matchup, he has a Martian grab that almost nobody punishes, and on most characters he gets a free trait stand 3. If you compare him to any other character in this game nobody's close, and that's why mmh is going to win evo and mlg. Jupiter was nothing before he mained mmh, he used a superman that just sat back and shot lazer a all day lol. I don't think any character that isn't considered top 10 has won a major since NEC. Pretty sad

 

[CrimsonShadow]

There was a time when only a couple people had NDC, perfect iAGB or flash parry etc down in MK9 as well. Then slowly Detroit, Kevo, Curbo, and all kinds of other people started grinding it out. In the end, not every Kabal ended up winning the tournaments, but a heck of a lot of people became good enough to keep players of other characters out of Top 8/Top 4.

That's pretty much what I'd predict for MMH in his current state. Eventually the militia will be upon us.

 

[DarthArma]

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

what top tier has ever been "easy mode" pickup-and-see-results-with to play?

cyrax and arguably kenshi.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

He lost to Scorpion and had his matches that forced him to work like Black Adam, Wonder Woman, and Batman. That's how I felt on the character back then anyway before the EVO patch.

Like you said man, just imagine what we know now, being used back then.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

cyrax and arguably kenshi.

*Stepping out before the barfight begins and chairs are thrown*

 

[Pan1cMode]

So a character with a free 50/50 after each knockdown, free interactable after almost every combo, gets 40% damage into either a free interactable or 50/50, has some of the best zoning in the game, builds meter 24/7, has one of the best wakeups in the game, has a j1 that can be very ambiguous and is +21, he doesn't have a bad matchup, he has a Martian grab that almost nobody punishes, and on most characters he gets a free trait stand 3. If you compare him to any other character in this game nobody's close, and that's why mmh is going to win evo and mlg. Jupiter was nothing before he mained mmh, he used a superman that just sat back and shot lazer a all day lol. I don't think any character that isn't considered top 10 has won a major since NEC. Pretty sad

You still think Superman is top 10?
With MMH, AM, WW, Zod, Flash, BG, Sinestro, GL, Bane, BA, Raven, KF

Also, digit did win Kombat Houston with Shazam so there's that.

 

[REO]

There was a time when only a couple people had NDC, perfect iAGB or flash parry etc down in MK9 as well. Then slowly Detroit, Kevo, Curbo, and all kinds of other people started grinding it out. In the end, not every Kabal ended up winning the tournaments, but a heck of a lot of people became good enough to keep players of other characters out of Top 8/Top 4.

That's pretty much what I'd predict for MMH in his current state. Eventually the militia will be upon us.

The main problem here is not many people play MMH. Back then you had a TON of players using Kabal. There was Erik Warda, Miachaelangelo, Kevo, Me, Detroit, Curbo, AC1987, Dab, Cat, Lulzlou, K7, Master D., Perfect Legend, etc. etc.

How many players do you have maining MMH in the American scene today? Jupiter, me, and uhh... Krayzie (who didn't start too long ago)? There's a HUGE difference in representation for MMH than there was for Kabal.

 

[oP Twist]

You still think Superman is top 10?
With MMH, AM, WW, Zod, Flash, BG, Sinestro, GL, Bane, BA, Raven, KF

Also, digit did win Kombat Houston with Shazam so there's that.

Kombat Houston was worse than the break and also WNF, I don't consider that a major. And yes supes is top 10 along with batman more characters are top 10 than u might think lol

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

cyrax and arguably kenshi.

Really? What Kenshi made top 8 other than me in first 2.5 years?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

There was a time when only a couple people had NDC, perfect iAGB or flash parry etc down in MK9 as well. Then slowly Detroit, Kevo, Curbo, and all kinds of other people started grinding it out. In the end, not every Kabal ended up winning the tournaments, but a heck of a lot of people became good enough to keep players of other characters out of Top 8/Top 4.

That's pretty much what I'd predict for MMH in his current state. Eventually the militia will be upon us.

Break apologist

Jk

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

Really? What Kenshi made top 8 other than me in first 2.5 years?

tell me the struggles kenshi has? if u have good spacing u should win more than you lose.

 

[oP Twist]

Really? What Kenshi made top 8 other than me in first 2.5 years?

There were kenshi players that completely mained him other than u?

 

[EMPEROR_JUPITER]

I agree with reo about orbs vs teleport. His teleport is safe yes but his orbs are much better. I'm not a fan of doing that many orb set ups even though I do know most of them(i hope) and there is a lot opportunities on knockdown from them. They are great for creating space, they can be used in almost every situation. Mix that with the MB version / trait 3 / pillars / meteor / and MMH in certain MUs can make it extremely difficult for someone to get it. His teleport leads to big damage but it puts me at a position where I usually don't want to be with MMH.