Martian Manhunter My honest thoughts

[Perfect Legend]

Its same like reo with kabal in mk9 , kabal was the best character in the game but you needed much skill and constant practice to be good with him ( iagb ,ndc)

lol no

 

[Sajam]

I agree with a lot of this, especially Reo'e point about orbs, and about having to main MMH to be the most successful with him. If I really wanted to play Injustice seriously I would have practiced him full time and committed 100% to the character, because without that it's very hard to make him work.

The complaint about characters carrying a player or a player carrying their character is a strange arguement. Some people do better with terrible characters than with better ones because their characters strengths makes up for their weaknesses. Some players have bad defense and need a character with strong defensive tools like a good backdash or maybe strong wakeups, while others rely on rushdown characters with armor to help deal with issues they may have with running traditional offense. Just because MMH is supposed to be the best doesn't mean more than a handful of people could play him at the level he needs to be played at. The same goes for any character really, and that's true for any fighting game.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I still don't believe footsies (in the traditional sense) exists in Injustice, that could just be me,

I do agree with you that Reo and Jupiter understand that character more then most,but REO is Godlike with anycharacter he picks up. Not sure Jupiter is on that same level.

This always goes back to the same thing of, there are not enough people in the NRS community to fully develop a 30 character roster.

It didn't happen with MK, and it won't happen with this game before the next one is out.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I may get bashed by some for saying this, but I don't even think the OH teleport is MMH's best tool. I believe his most "broken" attribute are Orbs. I strongly stand by the theory that if MMH's OH teleport were to get nerfed, he would still be a top tier character. It's sort of how in MK9 for the biggest time everyone thought Kabal's instant gas blasts were the problem but they completely let it over shadow his nomad dash which was his best and most absurd tool, IMO.

The thing about MMH is he's not an easy mode character to win with or get results with. Making him your secondary will only get you so far. You have to truly main the character to understand and exploit his broken tendencies. And can we be real here, what top tier has ever been "easy mode" pickup-and-see-results-with to play? We need to get rid of that notion. Almost every top tier takes extensive practice and knowledge of some sort vs certain characters. MMH brings out versatility like no other character. The beauty in that can be seen by the different amount of styles in how he can be played. Look at Jupiter's MMH and mine for example. He plays way more defensive and zoning based while I play more offense and set-up based. The extremely different play styles you can create with the character are almost endless.

Yea orbs are a huge space controller, a significant change to MMH would be orbs disappear on hit like sub zero clone did or reduce time in screen in half but none of that will happen so I look at orbs as an opportunity for my offense as well.


Example b233 MB orb can be poked, MB b3, etc

Whiff orb can be dashed and punished by many

B2333 orb can be punished and MB can be ducked then backdashed

I'm sure many MMH haters don't know the various options vs orbs

 

[coolwhip]

his teleport broke the mechanics of the game.

Be honest, you don't even know what that means.

 

[Eldriken]

Yea orbs are a huge space controller, a significant change to MMH would be orbs disappear on hit like sub zero clone did or reduce time in screen in half but none of that will happen so I look at orbs as an opportunity for my offense as well.


Example b233 MB orb can be poked, MB b3, etc

Whiff orb can be dashed and punished by many

B2333 orb can be punished and MB can be ducked then backdashed

I'm sure many MMH haters don't know the various options vs orbs

I wonder how many people don't know that regular orbs aren't active as soon as they come out. Or it doesn't seem like they are from what I've experienced. When starting a match and the MMH player starts off with trait~3 and puts out a regular orb, I've been able to dash up and d1~Earth Shake them before getting hit.

 

[AK coolcmcgee]

Fuck your teleport i have bodysplash

 

[Eldriken]

Be honest, you don't even know what that means.

I wasn't being entirely serious. Perhaps I should have worded it differently?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I wonder how many people don't know that regular orbs aren't active as soon as they come out. Or it doesn't seem like they are from what I've experienced. When starting a match and the MMH player starts off with trait~3 and puts out a regular orb, I've been able to dash up and d1~Earth Shake them before getting hit.

Yea u can do that or venom

 

[Northern Slasher]

Yes they are both fantastic players... but how can you guys sit here and still say MMH isn't broken with all the ridiculous points Pig has pointed out before his praising of REO and Jupiter? Scorpions teleport was not NEARLY as bad as the points Pig has pointed out.

 

[Eldriken]

Yea u can do that or venom

Ah, alright.

However, this doesn't apply to MB Orb, does it? It seems like that is active as soon as it is out.

I don't mean the same situation that you just quoted since that's not possible at the beginning of a new match. Just in general.

 

[STRYKIE]

He was easy mode because his teleport broke the mechanics of the game.

Here's the thing though,

When I read/heard that the teleport was "broken" by actual definition of FGC terminology, I was expecting something akin to;

Cyrax's breaker traps
Kenshi's invisible active hitboxes
Kung Lao's (or Kabal's) flash parry etc.

After stopping being a dick about it on the forums and actually got to play him myself, I realized it was just that UsedForGlue, (the advocate of safe, politically correct according to frame data, no risks, no gimmicks Kung Lao) had smoked another sack of potatoes and was talking about literal semantics.

It's like saying Cody should be banned from SFA3 because he's a Final Fight character and his projectile setups don't fit the rules of the game.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Ah, alright.

However, this doesn't apply to MB Orb, does it? It seems like that is active as soon as it is out.

I don't mean the same situation that you just quoted since that's not possible at the beginning of a new match. Just in general.

Most /some can crouch block after b2 during b2333 MB orb and backdash the MB orb

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Yes they are both fantastic players... but how can you guys sit here and still say MMH isn't broken with all the ridiculous points Pig has pointed out before his praising of REO and Jupiter? Scorpions teleport was not NEARLY as bad as the points Pig has pointed out.

Broken is a different description than S+ #1 character

 

[Pan1cMode]

(IMO) Facts:

Yes MMH is most likely #1

Yes oh tele Is bullshit

Yes random cross up oh tele on HKD/ push/ etc are bs

Yes he definitely beats ZOD and probably 80% of the cast w no losing MUs except potentially 1-2

Yes the character defies footsies

Yes this character hasbetter interacatable control than ZOD w 40% combos ending in MB phase shifter granting a free interactable into HKD cross up setups or orb OKi providing 60%+ into further OKi offense ....yes he has this

Yes Jupiter probably downplays some but is getting better daily at not

....however.....with that said

Jupiter and Reo should never be questioned or disrespected IMO in fact we should be thanking them for existing because without them no one would know the true power of MMH.

It's time we start appreciating true skill combined with a truly powerful character rather than bashing them for winning. I was bashed 3 years for using Kenshi who fits the above descriptions replaced w appropriate wording (ex sc, defies footsies etc) yet no one could do what I did, not even chris G, until 2.5 years after the fact I did it .....yet everyone said it was braindead just like we do w MMH. In fact sub zero was called a 5-5until oct '11. Good times

Has anyone ever considered this????

Maybe Jupiter and Reo are just way better than everyone .........?

i think so . I feel these two are just exceptional players using an exceptional character .

I don't see anyone constantly stuffing batgirl cartwheel and other hard to stuff wake ups other than Jupiter and I honestly don't feel fear vs any MMH other than those two because they evoke it. I've seen and played all of you and mopped most of u up badly, some were close ..... I'll also go back and watch tourney matches and casuals w MMH and no one looks like Reo and Jupiter which further proves my point. Maybe these two are just BETTER than everyone and MMH is fine as a S+ character can be in the FGC .

I'll also remind everyone when I ask people daily "well which MMH are you losing to?" No one ,including myself, has an answer different , it's always Jupiter and Reo.

So I for one appreciate these two players using their S+ tier skill w a S+ character because I feel it pushes me constantly to get better. No player other than woundcowboy has made me dig so deep in the lab before so I thank them from keeping me from being lazy and exploring my character further.

I also ask the other MMH players to step up their game and try and match Jupiter and Reo. We need you guys to and they do as well.

There are current MMHs constantly getting better that can catch up soon if they continue to work hard and those MMH players, to name some, are blak felow, storm the gates , roostak, kinetic balding , rebelo and others

Also I specifically ask the Break when commentating to give Jupiter more credit for being an outstanding player rather than ever insinuating he's winning because of his "bs character"

I'll also throw Rico some props though, dude doesn't really practice all that much but probably does 2nd-3rd best vs Jupiter w Aquaman. Says a lot.

Anyway, some of you will disagree and that's ok but I for one will support these guys and their success.

But I'm still gonna blow all the other MMHs up if I beat you

I agree with you but a couple of things;

BG cartwheel is easy to stuff up

No one (I should clarify, no one worth listening to) is saying MMH is easy mode, just that he's OP (which he kinda is).

MMH players definitely deserve their props. I tried picking him up but found him clunky/not to my style.

I may get bashed by some for saying this, but I don't even think the OH teleport is MMH's best tool. I believe his most "broken" attribute are Orbs. I strongly stand by the theory that if MMH's OH teleport were to get nerfed, he would still be a top tier character. It's sort of how in MK9 for the biggest time everyone thought Kabal's instant gas blasts were the problem but they completely let it over shadow his nomad dash which was his best and most absurd tool, IMO.

The thing about MMH is he's not an easy mode character to win with or get results with. Making him your secondary will only get you so far. You have to truly main the character to understand and exploit his broken tendencies. And can we be real here, what top tier has ever been "easy mode" pickup-and-see-results-with to play? We need to get rid of that notion. Almost every top tier takes extensive practice and knowledge of some sort vs certain characters. MMH brings out versatility like no other character. The beauty in that can be seen by the different amount of styles in how he can be played. Look at Jupiter's MMH and mine for example. He plays way more defensive and zoning based while I play more offense and set-up based. The extremely different play styles you can create with the character are almost endless.

I don't care if he gets to keep his broken orbs. I just can't stand tele, trait and MB pillars.

His teleport has several problems;

- It's safety
- The fact it's an aerial punishment
- It's tracking capability
- It's splash hitbox
- The fact it doesn't require meter
- The fact it leads to 35%+ combos

Trait also has several problems:

- Gives him godlike footsies
- Long ranged 5/6 frame moves that lead into full combo and are safe on block
- Trait~3 ._.
- Long duration
- Short cool down

MB pillar problems:

- Safe on block
- Tracks so well
- Hits all the way to the sky (will knock BG out of tele)
- Leads to full combo from anywhere on screen.

Let MMH keep his orb bullshit. They're only really a massive problem in conjunction with his other tools anyways. You can zone me out with orbs and pillars, but when I get in I shouldn't get outfootsied by your trait then knocked back full screen to rinse and repeat. If they were to tone down the three tools I mentioned he'd still probably be top 5 if not no. 1, but several of his MUs would become even. Of course I know you understand all this, just laying out my thoughts for everyone to see.

 

[coolwhip]

I wasn't being entirely serious. Perhaps I should have worded it differently?

Yes, you should have said:
"Scorpion's teleport broke the rules of the game... "

 

[Eldriken]

Yes, you should have said:
"Scorpion's teleport broke the rules of the game... "

Yeah, that would have been better. Next time, sir!

 

[coolwhip]

Yeah, that would have been better. Next time, sir!

Doge face is an invaluable addition to TYM.

 

[RIF]

REO and Jupiter being great players does not invalidate the fact that MMH is the most dominant character in the game. I have already espoused about why MMH is number one multiple times.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/empr-jupiters-martian-manhunter-match-up-chart-changes-might-happen.42511/page-6#post-1333408

It ISN'T just orbs. Orbs are broken against rush-down, but without the Orbs AND OH Teleport, he would be far less dominant against Zoners. Trait is broken against a huge portion of the cast. His mobility. His MB B3. His damage output. His mix-ups. The zoning tools.

We haven't even seen people use all of his tools yet. (MB Air Dash) The combination of all of these tools and how they can be applied against the cast is what makes him OP.

They may be great players, but let's not ignore the fact that MMH is extremely powerful.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

REO and Jupiter being great players does not invalidate the fact that MMH is the most dominant character in the game. I have already espoused about why MMH is number one multiple times.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/empr-jupiters-martian-manhunter-match-up-chart-changes-might-happen.42511/page-6#post-1333408

It ISN'T just orbs. Orbs are broken against rush-down, but without the Orbs AND OH Teleport, he would be far less dominant against Zoners. Trait is broken against a huge portion of the cast. His mobility. His MB B3. His damage output. His mix-ups. The zoning tools.

We haven't even seen people use all of his tools yet. (MB Air Dash) The combination of all of these tools and how they can be applied against the cast is what makes him OP.

They may be great players, but let's not ignore the fact that MMH is extremely powerful.

He is extremely powerful controlled by 2 powerful players

Both use all tools u speak of

 

[4x4lo8o]

I don't like this idea that anybody talking about how broken MMH is is automatically assumed to be claiming Jupiter isn't good or downplaying Reo and Jupiter's skill, etc.

The character is fucking dumb, but obviously it also takes skill to use the character well, and I don't think anybody would tell you that REO or Jupiter wouldn't be able to have success in this game with other characters.

Fact of the matter is that the character REO and Jupiter is playing demolishes half the cast, often badly enough that they don't even have to think about the match up(as evidenced by Jupiter's recent match upchart, he apparently had no idea how badly his character beats so many characters - I think he just knows that he's a good player and he wins a lot without being fully aware of the amount of work a lot of us are putting into that match up against him just to barely scrape out a few games) so they can spend more time focusing on his few 'bad' match ups. So it makes sense Jupiter's going to be better than anyone else at stuffing Batgirl's wake ups(or whatever, just an example). He's not worried about grinding 3-7 match ups and trying to give himself a fighting chance if he gets counter picked so it's easier for him to get super good at all his 5-5 and 6-4 match ups.

I think Jupiter is probably the best Injustice player right now, but his character is part of that. There are a lot of other extremely good players in this community using slightly less good characters and ignoring the role Jupiter or REO's character has had on their success is a disservice to all those other players. I don't think it's what Pig's trying to do with this thread, but all the time on these forums I see people respond to complaints about MMH with stuff like "Jupiter is just an amazing player, why can't you give him props smh" or something asinine like that even if Jupiter wasn't even mentioned.

@AK Pig Of The Hut, I think your point about REO and Jupiter being the only MMH's people are losing to is off base. They might be the only ones with tournament results right now, but they're just ahead of the curve. There's no solace in that. We're gonna see more MMH's very soon, they just haven't quite emerged yet. Sort of like of how awhile back you and Dave were the only Zods that mattered, but now there's people like RelaxedState and Viking coming out and getting results with the character.
I know I'm losing to MMH and think he's broken as fuck, and it's not REO or Jupiter I'm losing to. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think we'll start seeing other MMH's making top 8's very soon

 

[TKB]

Wow I agree with this completely. REO and Jupiter are both amazing players, it would be complete bullshit to say oh they only win because of their character not because they're better players overall.

Everyone is looking at you, m2dave.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I don't like this idea that anybody talking about how broken MMH is is automatically assumed to be claiming Jupiter isn't good or downplaying Reo and Jupiter's skill, etc.

The character is fucking dumb, but obviously it also takes skill to use the character well, and I don't think anybody would tell you that REO or Jupiter wouldn't be able to have success in this game with other characters.

Fact of the matter is that the character REO and Jupiter is playing demolishes half the cast, often badly enough that they don't even have to think about the match up(as evidenced by Jupiter's recent match upchart, he apparently had no idea how badly his character beats so many characters - I think he just knows that he's a good player and he wins a lot without being fully aware of the amount of work a lot of us are putting into that match up against him just to barely scrape out a few games) so they can spend more time focusing on his few 'bad' match ups. So it makes sense Jupiter's going to be better than anyone else at stuffing Batgirl's wake ups(or whatever, just an example). He's not worried about grinding 3-7 match ups and trying to give himself a fighting chance if he gets counter picked so it's easier for him to get super good at all his 5-5 and 6-4 match ups.

I think Jupiter is probably the best Injustice player right now, but his character is part of that. There are a lot of other extremely good players in this community using slightly less good characters and ignoring the role Jupiter or REO's character has had on their success is a disservice to all those other players. I don't think it's what Pig's trying to do with this thread, but all the time on these forums I see people respond to complaints about MMH with stuff like "Jupiter is just an amazing player, why can't you give him props smh" or something asinine like that even if Jupiter wasn't even mentioned.

@AK Pig Of The Hut, I think your point about REO and Jupiter being the only MMH's people are losing to is off base. They might be the only ones with tournament results right now, but they're just ahead of the curve. There's no solace in that. We're gonna see more MMH's very soon, they just haven't quite emerged yet. Sort of like of how awhile back you and Dave were the only Zods that mattered, but now there's people like RelaxedState and Viking coming out and getting results with the character.
I know I'm losing to MMH and think he's broken as fuck, and it's not REO or Jupiter I'm losing to. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think we'll start seeing other MMH's making top 8's very soon

I stand by what I said

If you're using ares I can see a long hard road w no light at the end but if you continue using bane you should be going even w them

 

[@MylesWright_]

Correct MMH players do not win solely because of their character, Batgirl players win because of their character

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Correct MMH players do not win solely because of their character, Batgirl players win because of their character

No BG feels like fox so yes if I lose to fox I lost to him not BG